30 replies to this topic

[Judo chop]

Here’s something which (I think) I picked up on, and I’d like to throw it out to the team for confirmation. The question is regarding Bond saving Camille during the boat chase, and then dumping her off in the arms of a stranger. The usual apologies and an advance request to merge topics if this has already been resolved in another thread.

So…

As was said in other threads, Bond saves Camille to obtain information about Quantum and also because of chronic damsel-in-distress syndrome. I think that’s been resolved.

In their first encounter, he obtains a name from her: “Greene”. However, (I think) at this point he thinks she’s referring to Slate. She asks Bond “did Greene give you any trouble?” to which Bond dryly replies, “No”. Meaning, “Slate didn’t give me any trouble”. (A great Connery type of line.) Bond is not in-the-know. He’s faking his way through the links for any kind of info.

However, when they’re on the boat during the chase, Camille refers to Greene by his full name, and Bond has a look of sudden attention on his face and recites the name back to her: “Dominic Greene?!”

So, at this point, Bond has retrieved the pertinent information that he needs. He knows the full name of the next link in the chain, and has a face to match. Yes, he could have kept Camille, but Bond knows a big fish from a little fish. Camille has only ancillary data. He’s recognizes, from the fact that someone probably wants her killed, and her reaction to his ‘saving her’ that she’s not Quantum. Now that Bond has what he needs to proceed, and being as “horribly efficient” as he is, he heads straight for the source. Thus, he dumps Camille, hops in the car and starts the search engine for Dominic Greene.

Can anyone back me up on this? I’m not 100% certain on my memory of the dialogue.

[Bondian]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

[Mister Asterix]

Bond had things to do, people to see, conscience girls to conquest.


And can you leave the spoiler out of the thread heading please.

[jaguar007]

Actually in the car she said "Did Dominic give you any trouble" I don't think he picked up the Greene name until he did the name check from the cell phone Elvis was using.

[Judo chop]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

Bondian, I would have an easier time respecting your distaste for Quantum if you’d acknowledge the facts while expressing your view.

Bond comes to full alert when Camille says Greene’s full name. That snippet of dialogue, and Bond’s reaction, is completely pointless… unless, of course, it has a point.

Just imagine… a Bond film that actually works great Conneryisms into the plot. Wouldn’t you be happy to know that it did? Why assume that it doesn’t?

And can you leave the spoiler out of the thread heading please.

Can you whip up something which points to the scene? Something about the end of the boat sequence, or whatever.

A thread titled "Why does Bond?" covers a pretty big range of possible topics. I tried to keep it specific to keep similar threads from popping up.

[Bondian]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

Bondian, I would have an easier time respecting your distaste for Quantum if you’d acknowledge the facts while expressing your view.

Okay. Bond could of either left her on the boat or safely on the dock. Seeing as there were other people around, she would have been found quickly. If Bond can leave Mathis in a skip, why not leave Camille safe on the dock?

Bond comes to full alert when Camille says Greene’s full name. That snippet of dialogue, and Bond’s reaction, is completely pointless… unless, of course, it has a point.

I agree.

Just imagine… a Bond film that actually works great Conneryisms into the plot. Wouldn’t you be happy to know that it did? Why assume that it doesn’t?

If it did I would agree, but it didn't. In Casino Royale Craig was his own Bond (save for a few Rambo moments). Now we have a film that relies on what worked for previous actors in the past.

IMHO. Quantum of Solace has gone one step forward and two steps back.

[Judo chop]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

Bondian, I would have an easier time respecting your distaste for Quantum if you’d acknowledge the facts while expressing your view.

Okay. Bond could of either left her on the boat or safely on the dock. Seeing as there were other people around, she would have been found quickly. If Bond can leave Mathis in a skip, why not leave Camille safe on the dock?

Bond comes to full alert when Camille says Greene’s full name. That snippet of dialogue, and Bond’s reaction, is completely pointless… unless, of course, it has a point.

I agree.

Just imagine… a Bond film that actually works great Conneryisms into the plot. Wouldn’t you be happy to know that it did? Why assume that it doesn’t?

If it did I would agree, but it didn't. In Casino Royale Craig was his own Bond (save for a few Rambo moments). Now we have a film that relies on what worked for previous actors in the past.

IMHO. Quantum of Solace has gone one step forward and two steps back.

Thank you.

[Bondian]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

Bondian, I would have an easier time respecting your distaste for Quantum if you’d acknowledge the facts while expressing your view.

Okay. Bond could of either left her on the boat or safely on the dock. Seeing as there were other people around, she would have been found quickly. If Bond can leave Mathis in a skip, why not leave Camille safe on the dock?

Bond comes to full alert when Camille says Greene’s full name. That snippet of dialogue, and Bond’s reaction, is completely pointless… unless, of course, it has a point.

I agree.

Just imagine… a Bond film that actually works great Conneryisms into the plot. Wouldn’t you be happy to know that it did? Why assume that it doesn’t?

If it did I would agree, but it didn't. In Casino Royale Craig was his own Bond (save for a few Rambo moments). Now we have a film that relies on what worked for previous actors in the past.

IMHO. Quantum of Solace has gone one step forward and two steps back.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Bond does get Greene's name, but I still don't think it's logical for him to drop off an unconscious Camille with a stranger other than getting to say the seasick line.

Obviously, Camille has ties to a member of Quantum and that person wants to kill her. Certainly Bond should be curious and want to question her about A) why Greene wants to kill her, B ) what does she know about Greene and Quantum, and C) who the powerful South American guy is and how is he involved with Greene and Quantum. I think he could learn more from her in a few minutes than he could from an MI6 background check on Greene. After getting the information from Camille, then he could leave her and do the background check and be that much more informed and aware of Greene and Quantum in his pursuit of them and Yusef.

[Judo chop]

Bond does get Greene's name, but I still don't think it's logical for him to drop off an unconscious Camille with a stranger other than getting to say the seasick line.

Obviously, Camille has ties to a member of Quantum and that person wants to kill her. Certainly Bond should be curious and want to question her about A) why Greene wants to kill her, B ) what does she know about Greene and Quantum, and C) who the powerful South American guy is and how is he involved with Greene and Quantum. I think he could learn more from her in a few minutes than he could from an MI6 background check on Greene. After getting the information from Camille, then he could leave her and do the background check and be that much more informed and aware of Greene and Quantum in his pursuit of them and Yusef.

That would have been the thorough way of doing things, but what would be the 'horribly efficient' method of doing things? I guess I'm not asking what you would do, or even what would be the best thing to do, but what would (this) Bond do?

Is what Bond does the action of a horribly efficient agent who is also struggling with personal revenge issues?

I think so. I think the script is careful (as much as it can be) to ensure that his actions remain consistent with his character.

[Judo chop]

Thanks Asterisk! Much better!

[HildebrandRarity]

Here’s something which (I think) I picked up on, and I’d like to throw it out to the team for confirmation. The question is regarding Bond saving Camille during the boat chase, and then dumping her off in the arms of a stranger. The usual apologies and an advance request to merge topics if this has already been resolved in another thread.

So…

As was said in other threads, Bond saves Camille to obtain information about Quantum and also because of chronic damsel-in-distress syndrome. I think that’s been resolved.

In their first encounter, he obtains a name from her: “Greene”. However, (I think) at this point he thinks she’s referring to Slate. She asks Bond “did Greene give you any trouble?” to which Bond dryly replies, “No”. Meaning, “Slate didn’t give me any trouble”. (A great Connery type of line.) Bond is not in-the-know. He’s faking his way through the links for any kind of info.

However, when they’re on the boat during the chase, Camille refers to Greene by his full name, and Bond has a look of sudden attention on his face and recites the name back to her: “Dominic Greene?!”

So, at this point, Bond has retrieved the pertinent information that he needs. He knows the full name of the next link in the chain, and has a face to match. Yes, he could have kept Camille, but Bond knows a big fish from a little fish. Camille has only ancillary data. He’s recognizes, from the fact that someone probably wants her killed, and her reaction to his ‘saving her’ that she’s not Quantum. Now that Bond has what he needs to proceed, and being as “horribly efficient” as he is, he heads straight for the source. Thus, he dumps Camille, hops in the car and starts the search engine for Dominic Greene.

Can anyone back me up on this? I’m not 100% certain on my memory of the dialogue.

I can confirm.

Bond does get Greene's name, but I still don't think it's logical for him to drop off an unconscious Camille with a stranger other than getting to say the seasick line.

Obviously, Camille has ties to a member of Quantum and that person wants to kill her. Certainly Bond should be curious and want to question her about A) why Greene wants to kill her, B ) what does she know about Greene and Quantum, and C) who the powerful South American guy is and how is he involved with Greene and Quantum. I think he could learn more from her in a few minutes than he could from an MI6 background check on Greene. After getting the information from Camille, then he could leave her and do the background check and be that much more informed and aware of Greene and Quantum in his pursuit of them and Yusef.

He hands her off to a high-end vacation resort attendent...who probably thought she was a tourist staying at the resort. She's in no danger at the resort.

It's a movie which moves quickly. If Bond stuck around, he'd miss the Quantum meeting at the opera. He needed to move quickly because everything else was moving equally as quickly after he escapes with Mr White in the Aston. Camille is less use to him (she doesn't know who Mr White is) than Greene is by the time of the boat chase/fight climax.

It makes perfect sense to me the way it is. More sense than the umpteen flaws in 90 percent of Bond movies. Even the better ones.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Bond does get Greene's name, but I still don't think it's logical for him to drop off an unconscious Camille with a stranger other than getting to say the seasick line.

Obviously, Camille has ties to a member of Quantum and that person wants to kill her. Certainly Bond should be curious and want to question her about A) why Greene wants to kill her, B ) what does she know about Greene and Quantum, and C) who the powerful South American guy is and how is he involved with Greene and Quantum. I think he could learn more from her in a few minutes than he could from an MI6 background check on Greene. After getting the information from Camille, then he could leave her and do the background check and be that much more informed and aware of Greene and Quantum in his pursuit of them and Yusef.

That would have been the thorough way of doing things, but what would be the 'horribly efficient' method of doing things? I guess I'm not asking what you would do, or even what would be the best thing to do, but what would (this) Bond do?

Is what Bond does the action of a horribly efficient agent who is also struggling with personal revenge issues?

I think so. I think the script is careful (as much as it can be) to ensure that his actions remain consistent with his character.

I'm not so sure. Learning more about Quantum and its members gets him closer to his revenge. Granted, he has been killing all his leads up to that point, but I still think it makes sense for him to talk to Camille to get some additional leads from her. After all, the more he knows, the closer he gets to Yusef.

[Judo chop]

Is what Bond does the action of a horribly efficient agent who is also struggling with personal revenge issues?

I think so. I think the script is careful (as much as it can be) to ensure that his actions remain consistent with his character.

I'm not so sure. Learning more about Quantum and its members gets him closer to his revenge. Granted, he has been killing all his leads up to that point, but I still think it makes sense for him to talk to Camille to get some additional leads from her. After all, the more he knows, the closer he gets to Yusef.

Well, I'm not a licensed to kill agent of the government, am not what I would consider a horribly efficient person, and am certainly not dealing with issues pertaining to the revenge of the forced suicide of a ex-love. I trust you are not either.

So, whether this is what our Bond would do must be left mostly to speculation. I think he believes that MI6 will have as much info as he needs to get to Greene and Quantum.

Camille might have more info, she might not. Right now, she's knocked out cold. So how long will Bond have to wait around? (Remember: efficient) By the time she comes to, Bond will have already known all MI6 knows about Greene, and he'd be off on the charter plane anyway. He's got his lead. He's not interested in waiting. That's what I speculate.

[Shane]

When the two meet in Camille's car, she asks 'dominic didn't give you any trouble did he?'- to which Bond simply repies 'no'. During the boat chase Camille realises that Bond is not Greene's geologist as it was Greene who sent her away with Medrano in the first place. She suggests 'your not one of Greene's!!' Bond puts two and two together and replies 'Dominic Greene?'

[Double-Oh Agent]

Is what Bond does the action of a horribly efficient agent who is also struggling with personal revenge issues?

I think so. I think the script is careful (as much as it can be) to ensure that his actions remain consistent with his character.

I'm not so sure. Learning more about Quantum and its members gets him closer to his revenge. Granted, he has been killing all his leads up to that point, but I still think it makes sense for him to talk to Camille to get some additional leads from her. After all, the more he knows, the closer he gets to Yusef.

Well, I'm not a licensed to kill agent of the government, am not what I would consider a horribly efficient person, and am certainly not dealing with issues pertaining to the revenge of the forced suicide of a ex-love. I trust you are not either.

So, whether this is what our Bond would do must be left mostly to speculation. I think he believes that MI6 will have as much info as he needs to get to Greene and Quantum.

Camille might have more info, she might not. Right now, she's knocked out cold. So how long will Bond have to wait around? (Remember: efficient) By the time she comes to, Bond will have already known all MI6 knows about Greene, and he'd be off on the charter plane anyway. He's got his lead. He's not interested in waiting. That's what I speculate.

Ah, but at the time Bond didn't know he'd have to hop a plane to Bregenz. As far as he knew, Greene was stationed and living in Haiti or at least staying for awhile. After all, his man Slate was staying in Haiti as well.

You make some interesting points, but I remain unconvinced. I think this was primarily a script decision so that Bond could split from Camille because it wasn't the "right" time for the two of them to hook up yet, and they were able to give Bond a clever one-liner to boot. Tempo-wise in the film, it probably is the right decision, but not for the character's situation at the moment.

[Judo chop]

When the two meet in Camille's car, she asks 'dominic didn't give you any trouble did he?'- to which Bond simply repies 'no'. During the boat chase Camille realises that Bond is not Greene's geologist as it was Greene who sent her away with Medrano in the first place. She suggests 'your not one of Greene's!!' Bond puts two and two together and replies 'Dominic Greene?'

Yes! Thanks for that, Shane. That sounds quite right.

[Judo chop]

Ah, but at the time Bond didn't know he'd have to hop a plane to Bregenz. As far as he knew, Greene was stationed and living in Haiti or at least staying for awhile. After all, his man Slate was staying in Haiti as well.

I knew you were going to say that.

I think the point is that Bond is too direct to wait around for Camille to come to and question her for what may very well lead to no additional information. What reason does Bond have to think Camille has been given inside scoop on Quantum? All he knows is that they want her dead. Maybe that means she knew too much, but just as likely it means she was only around for sport and was totally expendable. It would only be a hope to think she'd have more info than MI6 would be able to give him.

You make some interesting points, but I remain unconvinced. I think this was primarily a script decision so that Bond could split from Camille because it wasn't the "right" time for the two of them to hook up yet, and they were able to give Bond a clever one-liner to boot. Tempo-wise in the film, it probably is the right decision, but not for the character's situation at the moment.

Well, as I said, I don't think it's a stretch of logic at all that Bond would move directly on to Greene, but at the very least it is plausible enough to avoid controversy about a plot hole/weakness in the script.

[eddychaput]

Yeah, in a sense it doesn't make too much sense to leave her. Some of you have pointed out that he could have earned some info about Quantum out of her.

Then again, how much of Quantum did she know. I've only seen the movie once (I'm seeing it again, don't worry Bond fans) but if I recall, there aren't that many scenes in which she indicates any concrete knowledge of the organization. She never says she has a mission to stop them anyways. I could be wrong though. Like I said, I have only seen it once so far and that was about a week and a half ago.

But the argument about Bond needing to hurry up also makes sense. Plus, wasn't calling MI6 for a name check on Dominic Greene the first thing he did after the boat chase? Perhaps he didn't need Camille after all. He noticed she wasn't with Quantum and was about to be liquidated, so he thought he'd intervene.


Feel free to correct about my 'Camille on Quantum' argument though.

[DR76]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

[Bondian]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

[JimmyBond]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

"She's seasick" could bee seen as the Big Tam's line of "She's just dead." After Fiona is shot on the dance floor.

[Publius]

Bond does get Greene's name, but I still don't think it's logical for him to drop off an unconscious Camille with a stranger other than getting to say the seasick line.

As HR pointed out, he was a resort attendant.

Camille is less use to him (she doesn't know who Mr White is) than Greene is by the time of the boat chase/fight climax.

Good point. She's obviously not in the know.

Anyway, I figured Bond dropped her off because he didn't want to have to deal with getting her whatever medical attention she needed. He got a name, saved the girl, and was now able to track Greene to his plane. It's possible Bond would have dragged her along if she was conscious, but she wasn't so it's a moot point.

[dodge]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

Repeating a previous post of my mine, this obvious nod to Con falls flat: Big Tam's "My friend's sitting this out, she's just dead" may not exactly be High Humor but it works because it does have an amusing double meaning. "She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

[Judo chop]

"She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

Yeah, not the best line in the film. Probably the weakest. It travels in the same herd with the TB Connery bit, but is the unheathly specimen that natural selection is bound to pick off first.

Having said that, it's still better than "You want to do WHAT with me??!", which is the worst of the worst from CR.

IMO, the writing in QOS has improved on CR's overall. And we all know what CR's writing did in regards to the writing of the previous decade(s).

So...

I'm all here.

[HildebrandRarity]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

Repeating a previous post of my mine, this obvious nod to Con falls flat: Big Tam's "My friend's sitting this out, she's just dead" may not exactly be High Humor but it works because it does have an amusing double meaning. "She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

There you go again. It's getting a bit lame.

I've seen the movie a few times and every time people chuckled at the line.

What's your top Bond movie or actor, Dodgy?

Tell me.

[dodge]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

Repeating a previous post of my mine, this obvious nod to Con falls flat: Big Tam's "My friend's sitting this out, she's just dead" may not exactly be High Humor but it works because it does have an amusing double meaning. "She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

There you go again. It's getting a bit lame.

I've seen the movie a few times and every time people chuckled at the line.

What's your top Bond movie or actor, Dodgy?

Tell me.

My top Bond movie and actor are listed in my dossier, Hilly Baby. Actually, what's getting lame is your persistence in taking your potshots. You say people chuckled every time you saw the film at the flat joke I referenced. No one laughed at the two screenings I attended. Don't be such a long-distance tough guy. Relax.

[HildebrandRarity]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

Repeating a previous post of my mine, this obvious nod to Con falls flat: Big Tam's "My friend's sitting this out, she's just dead" may not exactly be High Humor but it works because it does have an amusing double meaning. "She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

There you go again. It's getting a bit lame.

I've seen the movie a few times and every time people chuckled at the line.

What's your top Bond movie or actor, Dodgy?

Tell me.

My top Bond movie and actor are listed in my dossier, Hilly Baby. Actually, what's getting lame is your persistence in taking your potshots. You say people chuckled every time you saw the film at the flat joke I referenced. No one laughed at the two screenings I attended. Don't be such a long-distance tough guy. Relax.

LOL!!!

Lazenby and Diamonds Are Forever! LOL!!!



ing priceless.

I won't even bother now.

I'm TOTALLY relaxed.

[dodge]

It's just another excuse to throw in another Connery nod.

What Connery nod?

There's two. "make sure he doesn't get away", and "she's, dead".

Repeating a previous post of my mine, this obvious nod to Con falls flat: Big Tam's "My friend's sitting this out, she's just dead" may not exactly be High Humor but it works because it does have an amusing double meaning. "She's seasick" is a puerile attempt at a joke that cuts the cheese while it tries to pass muster.

There you go again. It's getting a bit lame.

I've seen the movie a few times and every time people chuckled at the line.

What's your top Bond movie or actor, Dodgy?

Tell me.

My top Bond movie and actor are listed in my dossier, Hilly Baby. Actually, what's getting lame is your persistence in taking your potshots. You say people chuckled every time you saw the film at the flat joke I referenced. No one laughed at the two screenings I attended. Don't be such a long-distance tough guy. Relax.

LOL!!!

Lazenby and Diamonds Are Forever! LOL!!!



ing priceless.

I won't even bother now.

I'm TOTALLY relaxed.

I'll stand by Lazenby--and I'm in good company there with DoubleNoughtSpy and at least a few others. Somehow when updating my dossier, I'd hit the wrong film. DAF was right next to OHMSS. Most people here know my passion for OHMSS. I've corrected the dossier.

What's interesting to note is that you ridiule my choices--which I have the guts to put down. Yet you don't list a thing, do you? That says a good deal more about you than you're prepared to admit. As does your avoidance of my question: what's your beef with me, aside from my unwillingness to get on the QoS bandwagon?

[HildebrandRarity]

My favourite Bond film is Thunderball but I don't think it's the best one. Craig is now number one Bond. Quantum Of Solace, I feel, is the best. Connery in Thunderball is the best Bond 'performance' in a single movie to date but with the possibility that Craig bests that very soon in Bond 23 when he's cast as "the finished article" throughout. Having said that, I think Craig in QOS gives the best performance playing a character called James Bond who isn't the fully finished article yet trough an entire film. In addition I caveat Connery's Thunderball performance by saying he is no longer number one overall because I don't think he hits the ground running in Dr No and by Diamonds Are Forever he's fat, bloated, greying and disinterested showing only flashes of brilliance.

Those are my thoughts.

Happy?

As per a beef with you, Dodge...I don't have one.

And I never bothered to fill out my, er, 'dossier' because I, well, never bothered to fill it out. Is there something you can take away from that about me?

What 'good deal' does that say about me? Um, let's see...That i'm lazy...or couldn't ing care...or possibly that I didnt think it important to fill out the 'dossier'?

I wouldn't read too much into things that even I myself don't give a about.