125 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

I'm going with the QoS boat chase. The whole sequence just felt unecessary.

Why?

The scene shows Camille trying to assassinate General Medrano and Bond gets a name - Dominic Greene - in the pipeline of names. Further, he saves Camille.

Wasn't Camille needed in the story there after?

[mario007]

in QOS the boat sequence should have ended after bond rescues Camillie from the Generals boat ... I think that is the way it was intended ... but Dan Bradly and Simon Crane got carried away! too bad because the anchor thing that bond does at the end of the sequence is boring and hard to follow (I am still not sure what happens after three viewings).

Edited by mario007, 25 November 2008 - 04:26 PM.

[double o ego]

I'm going with the QoS boat chase. The whole sequence just felt unecessary.

Why?

The scene shows Camille trying to assassinate General Medrano and Bond gets a name - Dominic Greene - in the pipeline of names. Further, he saves Camille.

Wasn't Camille needed in the story there after?

The actual boat chase itself felt unecessary to me. Everything else was fine and could have happened in another way without the inclusion of this water-based chase. If it was going to occur in the form of another vehicular chase, I'd rather have seen it happen in either a car (despite having a car chase in the pts)or on the bike.

[HildebrandRarity]

in QOS the boat sequence should have ended after bond rescues Camillie from the Generals boat ... I think that is the way it was intended ... but Dan Bradly and Simon Crane got carried away!

Yes, but unlike Morzeny - who idiotically stops his boats in the middle of what he knows is an oil spill and trap in FRWL - General Medrano orders his zodiacs to go after his would be assassin (Camile). Any deposed general who is "jealous of their safely" (as spoken by Greene to Camille as the general is arriving to port) would want to exact revenge. If you were Medrano and had zodiacs at your diposal, would you do what he does? Or would you be like Morzeny and be a dumb pussy? Which one would you be?

Bond's rescue of Camille was never going to end without a reprisal.

C'mon guys!

[Judo chop]

in QOS the boat sequence should have ended after bond rescues Camillie from the Generals boat ... I think that is the way it was intended ... but Dan Bradly and Simon Crane got carried away!

Yes, but unlike Morzeny - who idiotically stops his boats in the middle of what he knows is an oil spill and trap in FRWL - General Medrano orders his zodiacs to go after his would be assassin (Camile). Any deposed general who is "jealous of their safely" (as spoken by Greene to Camille as the general is arriving to port) would want to exact revenge. If you were Medrano and had zodiacs at your diposal, would you do what he does? Or would you be like Morzeny and be a dumb pussy? Which one would you be?

Bond's rescue of Camille was never going to end without a reprisal.

C'mon guys!

The scene makes complete sense. Dull and wet in more ways than one, but completely sensible.

Well, except for the boat-flipping part. I think we have to cry 'giant squid' on that one.

[HildebrandRarity]

The scene makes complete sense. Dull and wet in more ways than one, but completely sensible.

Well, except for the boat-flipping part. I think we have to cry 'giant squid' on that one.

"Giant squid"...or "Morzeny!"

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

We should add Live and Let Die and Moonraker to the list.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

Oh, without a doubt, it's the Quantum of Solace boat chase. I feel that it was completely unnecessary, and I couldn't follow what the h[censored] was going on because of the rapid fast editing and the shaky camera.

The boat chase from From Russia With Love is WAYYYY better, and I can actually see what's happening (I particularly like the end of the boat chase when Bond takes the flare gun and shoots at the barrels in the water )

Heck, even the boat chase in The World is not Enough makes a lot more sense than the one in Quantum of Solace. It's a lot more fun and interesting to watch.

Edited by danielcraigisjamesbond007, 22 March 2009 - 05:48 PM.

[Matt_13]

The zodiac in QoS doesn't flip over Bonds boat. It gets pulled forward and down and is lifted when the bow hits the water. I have no problem with the boat chase. TWINE's is probably the weakest, simply because it is uninteresting and blandly shot. There is no suspense in that chase at all, mainly because we know that Brosnan's Bond is pretty much invincible.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Quantum of Solace

[singleentendre]

It depends on if you're basing it off of just how it impacts the movie or taking everything possible into account. If just off the movie, QoS's is the weakest. Based on everything, TWINE's is.

With TWINE, the DVD special features seem to me to be loaded with stuff about the boat chase. The crew and producers go on and on about how amazing it was and hard to do, when really I feel like it's one of the weakest parts of the film. Apted says he wanted to make the PTS tie into the plot, but I feel the boat chase diminished that a lot. All we got out of it was the idea that Renard is to be feared and has people working for him....just like every.single.Bond.villain.

[tim partridge]

It may be intended as a joke (with rear projected Jaws and such) but the actual action footage from the Moonraker boat chase is pretty much textbook "How to shoot a 007 boat chase scene". The danger is threatening, the editing rhythm is spot on, the pace is tight but allows you to savour the visuals, the geography is clearly laid out, the slow mo' explosions are stunning, the camera angles are dynamic (who doesn't love the water drenched close up of Rog steering that thing?) and the overall effect is incredibly satisfying.

The FRWL and LALD boat chases are also both obviously textbook, but we knew that already.

I think QOS, TWINE and MWTGG have easily the worst photographed, edited, paced and directed boat chases in the series.

[tdalton]

TWINE's is probably the weakest, simply because it is uninteresting and blandly shot. There is no suspense in that chase at all, mainly because we know that Brosnan's Bond is pretty much invincible.

Agreed. Of the boat chases in question, I'd definitely have to say the one in TWINE is the weakest, for the reasons you mention, as well as the fact that it felt out of place against what was, up to that point, a very different, and somewhat low-key (or at least as low-key as the scripts could be expected to be in the Brosnan Era) PTS.

[00Twelve]

I've probably got to go with TWINE on this one. It's not wholly bad but the entire sequence where Bond jets through the streets and a restaurant in a boat[!] hearkens back to the Bondola days. Huge forehead-slap w/ head-shake moment.

I have to agree that its use in the plot saves the QOS chase (and I think it's just a more visceral sequence). I would call it my favorite of the three listed by Hildy, perhaps, but I can't help clenching my fist and gritting my teeth at the missing shot of a boat anchor going overboard or whatever shot was missing that would have totally cleared up the ambiguous finale.

FRWL's isn't all that exciting to me, really, except for the iconic shot of the oil drums going up. It works just fine and I like it perfectly well, but it's at least as extraneous to the flow of the movie as some others feel about the QOS sequence.

[jamie00007]

QoS is easily my favorite one of the lot.

[sharpshooter]

I'm sure I've stated this somewhere else, but for me, FRWL's boat sequence reigns supreme. The regular bullets igniting the gasoline argument holds no water at all, it's been pointed out time again elsewhere. As for Morenzy stopping the boats, he's most likely keeping a safe distance between himself and Bond. He wouldn't know if he's armed or not. And I bet he didn't see that little trick of Bond's unfolding.

[tdalton]

I'm sure I've stated this somewhere else, but for me, FRWL's boat sequence reigns supreme. The regular bullets igniting the gasoline argument holds no water at all, it's been pointed out time again elsewhere. As for Morenzy stopping the boats, he's most likely keeping a safe distance between himself and Bond. He wouldn't know if he's armed or not. And I bet he didn't see that little trick of Bond's unfolding.

Agreed. The boat chase in FRWL is far superior to the boat chases in TWINE and QOS, and I agree with the reasons that you state in your post. There's a few things missing in the QOS boat chase, such as a clear explanation of why the boat flipped at the end, but that sequence is still a good sequence, just not as good as the one in FRWL.

[Eddie Burns]

in QOS the boat sequence should have ended after bond rescues Camillie from the Generals boat ... I think that is the way it was intended ... but Dan Bradly and Simon Crane got carried away!

Yes, but unlike Morzeny - who idiotically stops his boats in the middle of what he knows is an oil spill and trap in FRWL - General Medrano orders his zodiacs to go after his would be assassin (Camile). Any deposed general who is "jealous of their safely" (as spoken by Greene to Camille as the general is arriving to port) would want to exact revenge. If you were Medrano and had zodiacs at your diposal, would you do what he does? Or would you be like Morzeny and be a dumb pussy? Which one would you be?

Bond's rescue of Camille was never going to end without a reprisal.

C'mon guys!

Sigh

Morzeny had no idea that the barrels were punctured, and the reason why he stopped was because he thought Bond had given up, and Bond indicated this by releasing the barrels. Notice also Bond putting his hands up. Even Tania had no idea why they were stopping as she thought they could move faster without the load. Morzeny thought Bond was trapped and had nowhere go, he wasn't banking on the flare gun

We have a saying in England, where there's smoke...there's fire! Once again Sir Sean is always one step ahead the audience (His Bond is the smartest out of the six) some forty-seven years later! Lol!

As for which chase is more flawed. QoS definitely because it's poorly done and oh so underwhelming. Bond finds out Greene's name on a boat in the middle of bullets whizzing by. Fine I'll go along with that, but he could have found out that info in the car with Camille. After Camille shot at him he jumped out of the car, for no reason since he had her by the wrist. Unless Camille kicked him out, which I doubt. So, why did he jump out of the car and then chase her again? Oh...I see. So we could have another boring action sequence. It was there for the sake of being there, the fact that Bond finds out about Greene was something Zetumer put in there to make it look as if it's moving the story along.

TWINE at least it tries, and tries very hard. The effort is there for you to see, and if the rest of the movie was as ambitious as this PTS, it would have been a solid entry.

FRWL largely unnecessary, but very entertaining and linked the DN/FRWL universe to the GF universe in a way. The sequence from the Oriental Express to the last scene with Rosa Klebb is fantastic. It enhances Bond as an agent. The reason why it was put on there was probably because the movie was too short.

[00Twelve]

TWINE at least it tries, and tries very hard. The effort is there for you to see, and if the rest of the movie was as ambitious as this PTS, it would have been a solid entry.

IMO, if the rest of the movie had been like the PTS, it would have been a little better simply for not trying to be a more mature movie than it is. The PTS is a Moore-style silly romp with a little drama thrown in like a dash of chile pepper. I'd have probably liked the movie a lot better, really, had it been as fantastical as its PTS.

[HildebrandRarity]

in QOS the boat sequence should have ended after bond rescues Camillie from the Generals boat ... I think that is the way it was intended ... but Dan Bradly and Simon Crane got carried away!

Yes, but unlike Morzeny - who idiotically stops his boats in the middle of what he knows is an oil spill and trap in FRWL - General Medrano orders his zodiacs to go after his would be assassin (Camile). Any deposed general who is "jealous of their safely" (as spoken by Greene to Camille as the general is arriving to port) would want to exact revenge. If you were Medrano and had zodiacs at your diposal, would you do what he does? Or would you be like Morzeny and be a dumb pussy? Which one would you be?

Bond's rescue of Camille was never going to end without a reprisal.

C'mon guys!

Sigh

Morzeny had no idea that the barrels were punctured...

Sigh

He had binoculars.




PSS

I believe they corrected the Q0S boat chase's flaws after the North American premiere in subsequent prints and is now perfect as per this thread:

http://debrief.comma...p...51654&st=60



Here's to getting everything up to snuff when we get the DVD in our hands tomorrow!

[00Twelve]

Yes, someone please post the definitive answer to that tomorrow. I'm dying to know if there's a shot that finally makes the ending clear. That will make all the difference to me as far as my opinion of the chase is concerned. It's my only real gripe.

[HildebrandRarity]

Well, the definitive answer for the theatrical release version was in that thread.

As for the definitive answer for the DVD versions...??? We wait with baited breath!

It looks like there were two, maybe even more than two, versions of Q0S during release.

Some even noted the extra length of the parachute opening at the theatre while not too many noted the finale' of the boat chase. It took me my 6th and 7th veiwing to notice a difference. The 6th and 7th vewings took place a month after NA opening weekend whereas the first five viewings were between Thursday midnite showing and the Tuesday of the first week...so I think Eon added footage in prints which followed the Premiere prints.

[00Twelve]

Well, the definitive answer for the theatrical release version was in that thread.

As for the definitive answer for the DVD versions...??? We wait with baited breath!

It looks like there were two, maybe even more than two, versions of Q0S during release.

Some even noted the extra length of the parachute opening at the theatre while not too many noted the finale' of the boat chase. It took me my 6th and 7th veiwing to notice a difference. The 6th and 7th vewings took place a month after NA opening weekend whereas the first five viewings were between Thursday midnite showing and the Tuesday of the first week...so I think Eon added footage in prints which followed the Premiere prints.

Yeah, see-- the DVD screener is all I've been able to watch since early December, and it's obviously missing that shot that you saw of Bond turning a 180 and gunning it. I've watched the end of the boat chase upwards of 50 times, sometimes in slow motion, sometimes in freeze frame, and thus far no clear answer. I'm a very observant watcher of movies, very interested in every detail (ya think??). I've never seen that shot in all my viewings, so I'm hoping it's included on the DVD so that I may see it for the first time.

[Judo chop]

As am I.


As am I...

[HildebrandRarity]

"Tonight...Tonight" - Dr No, 1962.

[double o ego]

Bah, the QoS boat chase is just boring. I still don't understand how the boat flipped and whatnot. All I saw was Bond throw the hook into the other boat and then *woosh*

Say what you want about TWINE but TWINE's boat chase was all the more exciting and fun to watch and it reeked of vintage Bond in all his silly glory without being worryingly cheesy.

FRWL. A msterpiece of a film in general, I have no qualms with that particular boat chase other than the fact I didn't like Bond wearing the sailor's outfit BUT the shot from the flare gun more than makes up for such a trivial discrepency.

[HildebrandRarity]

Bah, the QoS boat chase is just boring. I still don't understand how the boat flipped and whatnot. All I saw was Bond throw the hook into the other boat and then *woosh*

Say what you want about TWINE but TWINE's boat chase was all the more exciting and fun to watch and it reeked of vintage Bond in all his silly glory without being worryingly cheesy.

FRWL. A msterpiece of a film in general, I have no qualms with that particular boat chase other than the fact I didn't like Bond wearing the sailor's outfit BUT the shot from the flare gun more than makes up for such a trivial discrepency.

Bah.

How did Bond steer the boat through the streets of London?

Bah.

Why did Morzeny purposely halt all three SPECTRE boats in the middle of the oil spill which he could see with his binoculars.

Bah.



I can hardy wait to pick up the Q0S dvd and watch it this evening!

[DamnCoffee]

Bah, the QoS boat chase is just boring. I still don't understand how the boat flipped and whatnot. All I saw was Bond throw the hook into the other boat and then *woosh*

Say what you want about TWINE but TWINE's boat chase was all the more exciting and fun to watch and it reeked of vintage Bond in all his silly glory without being worryingly cheesy.

FRWL. A msterpiece of a film in general, I have no qualms with that particular boat chase other than the fact I didn't like Bond wearing the sailor's outfit BUT the shot from the flare gun more than makes up for such a trivial discrepency.

Bah.

How did Bond steer the boat through the streets of London?

Bah.

Why did Morzeny purposely halt all three SPECTRE boats in the middle of the oil spill which he could see with his binoculars.

Bah.



I can hardy wait to pick up the Q0S dvd and watch it this evening!

How could Bond crash his boat into Medrano's without getting extreme whiplash?


Bah.


How the hell did Bond manage to flip a bloody boat over?


Bah.


How the hell did Camille not have a bloodclot or massive internal bleeding when she got knocked out by an oncoming boat?


Bah.

[Matt_13]

Bah, the QoS boat chase is just boring. I still don't understand how the boat flipped and whatnot. All I saw was Bond throw the hook into the other boat and then *woosh*

Say what you want about TWINE but TWINE's boat chase was all the more exciting and fun to watch and it reeked of vintage Bond in all his silly glory without being worryingly cheesy.

FRWL. A msterpiece of a film in general, I have no qualms with that particular boat chase other than the fact I didn't like Bond wearing the sailor's outfit BUT the shot from the flare gun more than makes up for such a trivial discrepency.

Bah.

How did Bond steer the boat through the streets of London?

Bah.

Why did Morzeny purposely halt all three SPECTRE boats in the middle of the oil spill which he could see with his binoculars.

Bah.



I can hardy wait to pick up the Q0S dvd and watch it this evening!

How could Bond crash his boat into Medrano's without getting extreme whiplash?


Bah.


How the hell did Bond manage to flip a bloody boat over?


Bah.


How the hell did Camille not have a bloodclot or massive internal bleeding when she got knocked out by an oncoming boat?


Bah.

Hmmm... Oh I know! Because it's a movie!

[DamnCoffee]

Exactly.