40 replies to this topic

[MkB]

It seemed crystal clear to me, and it's my preferred scene. Many would argue that the idea of Bond contemplating suicide is an heresy, but in fact, it's soooooo Fleming, indeed, Otis Fairplay!

[ImTheMoneypenny]

Of course, the situation and its implications also brings to mind Bond's last resort plan for Solitaire and himself at the end of Fleming's Live and Let Die.

That's what I thought about afterwards too.

[Judo chop]

Um… I’m not 100% certain about suicide, but certainly we were looking at a mercy-killing on the horizon. Meaning, I fully understood that Bond was about to ‘do’ Camille, but that’s not to say anything about what Bond was going to do to himself afterwards. Not that he had too many other choices. I just don’t know that the scene explicitly tells us it’s going one way or another.

[Bonita]

The scene is key, and over-selling it would have been a mistake. I didn't like the Camille flashback sound of the children screaming as Bond runs to save her. But this is a nitpick. The scene is one of the most powerful emotional moments in a Bond film. I cover it in my review...

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51624

Keep dancing...

Edited by Bonita, 17 November 2008 - 08:28 PM.

[Painted Gold]

I got it the first time. The fact that so many people didn't get the emotional climax of the film is Foster's fault. He really did make 'the bond film he always wanted to see' and assumes that everyone else will make the same assumptions and draw the same conclusions as he did. Umm no, you do actually have to EXPLAIN how and why things are happening sometimes. I like a post movie discussion/analysis as much as the next girl but QofS took this to a whole other level.

[69' DBS]

Original poster here...

Someone asked what 2/3 of my preview party guests thought when they saw the scene...how did they "miss it" ?

Most of them thought Bond was simply comforting Camille. They either missed the dialogue or focussed on the eventual escape and the shooting of the propane tank which enabled it.

BTW, none of the preview goers were "thick" mentally...90% of them fell into the following sort of professions: engineers, doctors, lawyers, sales professionals, accountants, etc.

I have since spoken to three of them who saw it again, and they all got it this time around....just like I did when I saw it again.

One of the people who saw it THREE times now insists that it was going to be a mercy killing only...that suicide for Bond himself was never even hinted at. Intersting topic in its own right...

I am going to see it a third time this week...maybe that will settle it in my own mind.

Edited by 69' DBS, 01 December 2008 - 12:06 AM.

[Matt_13]

Yes, the people I went with noticed as well. The most disturbing moment for me was when Bond told Camille "Close your eyes" and then motioned the gun to her stomach. Very powerful scene, I remember the odd feeling I got afterward when the tension just ended when Bond shot the canister but nonetheless it is still an amazing scene.

[HildebrandRarity]

Well..

Camille: (Looking at flames) Not this way, No, I can't please.

Bond notices the gun and tells her to close her eyes.

Camille: Like you said, take a deep breath, make it count.

Yeah, but there are a couple different ways to read into that as far as I'm concerned. I did think suicide for brief second so I'm not discounting it, I was just curious to know what made the original poster think that suicide was being hinted at. I'm actually curious to know who else thought that?

I didn't see it as suicide.

Mercy Killing/Execution is what it appeared to be.

Camille basically telling Bond she didn't want to be burned to death as she nearly was as a child...and Bond telling her to close her eyes as he contemplates the mercy execution...before spying the hydrogen tank against the wall.

I got it the first time. The fact that so many people didn't get the emotional climax of the film is Foster's fault. He really did make 'the bond film he always wanted to see' and assumes that everyone else will make the same assumptions and draw the same conclusions as he did.

I thought art was in the 'eye of the beholder' and that it's up to the individual to see or hear whatever they want to.

I think it's a tribute to the movie that it leaves room for interpretations...and doesn't spoon feed it's audience like a parent would a babbling and helpless baby.

[MkB]

Well..

Camille: (Looking at flames) Not this way, No, I can't please.

Bond notices the gun and tells her to close her eyes.

Camille: Like you said, take a deep breath, make it count.

Yeah, but there are a couple different ways to read into that as far as I'm concerned. I did think suicide for brief second so I'm not discounting it, I was just curious to know what made the original poster think that suicide was being hinted at. I'm actually curious to know who else thought that?

I didn't see it as suicide.

Mercy Killing/Execution is what it appeared to be.

Camille basically telling Bond she didn't want to be burned to death as she nearly was as a child...and Bond telling her to close her eyes as he contemplates the mercy execution...before spying the hydrogen tank against the wall.

Well, yes, maybe it could be better phrased than "suicide". They were clearly not having the hump and feeling like "Oh, bloody life, let's stop..."
But, strictly speaking, it was ending one's life voluntarily (even through
another person), so it can be regarded as suicide. And I can't see what Bond could have done after shooting Camille, else than shooting himself too.
Most importantly, it was Bond starting to accept that he had lost, and starting to give up. Very striking moment!

[byline]

He had the gun to his head for crying out loud!

Well, not really. He had it in his hand as he had his arms wrapped around Camille.

But you can see it in his eyes and the way how he puts his arms around her, that he is clearly thinking about shooting her to save her from the flames.

Yup, that was my take on it on first viewing. And I didn't even get all of what Camille was saying first time around. The intensity of their facial expressions said it all.

[69' DBS]

I´m sorry. But by reading your first post on this thread it felt to me as if it were meant to troll. Which I see now it wasn´t. Sincere apologies.

BTW, apology accepted...thank you for this courtesy...it is much appreciated. I never troll...not my style...but I am new to this forum, so I can understand your point.

Edited by 69' DBS, 01 December 2008 - 01:11 AM.