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The Worst Film in the Series


159 replies to this topic

#151 stamper

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 07:23 AM

I don't think the faults in QOS lies in it doing it the Bourne way, the Bourne movies, based on books that are probably the best continuation of Fleming 007 books ever made (starting with the agent being amnesiac right where YOLT novel ends), just showed the way a spy thriller should be done back to earth, and that's why they made an impact.
One have to assume that you would just have to redress the 007 franchise on that same base, add all the 007 landmarks and hang it on the skeleton of a Fleming 007 novel to make a good Bond film. That's what CR did.
The problem with QOS is that it drops it all. No more gunbarrel (until the end and it's trown off like a bone to a dog), no more 1964 Aston Martin, no more iconisation of gaining the tux, the Vesper cocktail reference is trown off also like a bone, no more fetichism about the weapons Bond will use including is Walther etc, but most importantly, no more Fleming. Bourne are doing it the right way, by using other Ludlum books for the next few, because they are done with the original Bournes.

I understand there's no more Fleming novels around to play with. But tons of them haven't been adapted properly. One could rewrite LALD and update it for today, eliminating the "negro" angle and substituting something else, to have a much more exciting movie than QOS, without it being the remake of the Moore entry. In fact, one could probably take QOS premise, and fuse it with the LALD novel, and have a perfect movie entry, but that is another discussion.

The problem with QOS is that it is a step back to what dragged the old Bond series, with Craig acting as a fish out of water in it, he is like playing in another movie. Thought I don't say it as a negative, the movie he seems to play in looks more exciting to me than the one he is actually in. QOS uses tons of dialogue and action recycled from past entries, just like DAD did, only DAD at least use some originality in it, even if it was bad.
I don't think anyway that the producers are capable of doing anything else than this kind of movie, whatever they may say. I'm sure the next will be full of gadgets and a trowback to SPY, "the best one yet !".
No Fleming = No Bond. "Go back to Fleming" used to say Brocolli ? Listen to the voice. :(

My opinion about the "production team" after QOS is that director Martin Campbell seems to have much more affinity about how to make a good, Flemingian Bond movie, than the actual team who just trew here Bourne action, 24 set ups, LTK and past films references into a blender, hoping it would stick. I prefer solid movies using all the Bond ingredients even if they play with them, like CR did.

#152 dee-bee-five

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 07:56 AM

No Fleming = No Bond.


For once I agree with you. The thing is, QoS is pure Fleming, without all the bells and whistles that the films have added over the years which some people think are Flemingian.

That is why QoS succeeds.

Magnificently, in my view.

#153 Byron

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:18 PM

No Fleming = No Bond.


For once I agree with you. The thing is, QoS is pure Fleming, without all the bells and whistles that the films have added over the years which some people think are Flemingian.

That is why QoS succeeds.

Magnificently, in my view.


Pure Fleming? This plus "it's in the spirit of Fleming" gets banded around often by certain individuals around here.

Sorry but other than the locations i don't see any echo of Fleming in QOS. Daniel Craig was fairly one dimensional the whole way through. And his characterisation of Bond was nothing like any of the Fleming novels i've read. The character as i remember (and i'm not senile yet) doesn't act anything like Bond in QOS - he's not a non-stop Terminator like killing machine without any regard or thought for his actions.

Yes it's a serious, semi-realistic film unlike some previous entries but that is where any similarities end.

#154 Jim

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:28 PM

Sorry but other than the locations i don't see any echo of Fleming in QOS. Daniel Craig was fairly one dimensional the whole way through.


Without wishing to score points, and you entitled to interpret art as you wish, that sounds pretty much like the person Ian Fleming wrote about. However, I don't believe the performance is inherently one-dimensional and er um er he is therefore not Fleming's Bond. Um. I appear to have argued myself into a corner there! Hey ho.

And his characterisation of Bond was nothing like any of the Fleming novels i've read. The character as i remember (and i'm not senile yet) doesn't act anything like Bond in QOS - he's not a non-stop Terminator like killing machine without any regard or thought for his actions.


Noted but again I disagree (but only with my perception of what I watched): I thought the reaction to what happens to Mathis and Fields and how he interacts with Camille and the boyfriend bloke at the end of the film are attempts to demonstrate a Bond with regard and thought about the consequences of what he does.

You are absolutely entitled to consider me misconceived! But this is what I took from it.

#155 Hitch

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:57 PM

Jim, I could never consider you misconceived. :(

My opinion on one aspect of the film:

The PTS of QOS was the most fun I've had at the movies since I saw Casino Royale. We all, at one time or another, have wanted to be James Bond (go on, own up!). What was so different about the PTS was that it was immersive. The sweeping shot across the lake, the glimpses of the Aston Martin, the roar of its engine, the abrupt start to the action, the extreme close-ups of Bond and the frenetic editing all contrived to put the viewer in the midst of the carnage. I felt as though I was taking part rather than observing. It was a visceral experience and, stylistically, was a new departure for the franchise.

Seeing QOS in the cinema was a seat-of-the-pants experience. I got my money's worth from a film that tried different things, had a few flaws, and attempted to give me a tense, atmospheric, rewarding story. Watching the DVD of QOS is going to be fascinating.

#156 dee-bee-five

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 01:22 PM

No Fleming = No Bond.


For once I agree with you. The thing is, QoS is pure Fleming, without all the bells and whistles that the films have added over the years which some people think are Flemingian.

That is why QoS succeeds.

Magnificently, in my view.


Pure Fleming? This plus "it's in the spirit of Fleming" gets banded around often by certain individuals around here.

Sorry but other than the locations i don't see any echo of Fleming in QOS. Daniel Craig was fairly one dimensional the whole way through. And his characterisation of Bond was nothing like any of the Fleming novels i've read. The character as i remember (and i'm not senile yet) doesn't act anything like Bond in QOS - he's not a non-stop Terminator like killing machine without any regard or thought for his actions.

Yes it's a serious, semi-realistic film unlike some previous entries but that is where any similarities end.


Well, we all interpret things we've seen and read differently, so no-one is right or wrong about this. But, to my mind, Daniel Craig (hardly one-dimensional) is Fleming's Bond in Quantum of Solace in the way that no other actor has managed.

I don't see Craig as a non-stop Terminator killing machine in QoS, and I think to characterise him as such is a disservice to both character and performer. As with everything in QoS, everything is in the subtext. And the thing with subtext is that if you don't get it, you just don't get it. At the end of Fleming's You Only Live Twice, Bond strangles Blofeld with his bare hands. He doesn't do this for Queen and Country, he does it to avenge Tracy, end of. That is where Bond's head is in QoS, pure and simple. Ergo, pure Fleming. QoS is the film Eon should have made after OHMSS. It's the film they tried to make in LTK, though they were hampered by a star who, while having many admirable qaulities and is, for me, underrated, was far too theatrical to wholly carry the audience with him on that journey. Craig can and does.

#157 mrsbonds_ppk

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:27 AM

For the record..I did like and enjoy Quantum of Solace. It had some problems and scenes that I was not happy with though. And I find myself agreeing very much with Bill's review. Well written Bill. I have also come across other people's opinions on this movie and see where they make excellent points.

I was gonna write a review myself but I just feel now that I don't want to. I don't need anyone that I don't know personally calling me out my name because I have a different outlook or opinion from them. It's not that serious to me. Thing's seem different now than they did when Casino Royale came out on this forum.

I will just discuss aspects of the movie when people open threads that I feel I want to contribute too. But Bill has said a lot of what I feel about the movie.


I give QOS :(1/2 stars and I don't feel it is anywhere near the best Bond movie ever made.

#158 Blonde Bond

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 02:17 PM

Word to you mother!

#159 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 04:48 AM

I was talking to my dad on Christmas and I asked him if he'd seen Quantum Of Solace and he said he had, but his verdict was a less than ringing endorsement to say the least. He absolutely hated it and considers it the worst film in the series, which totally shocked me for two reasons because 1) he either likes or finds okay all but one film in the series and 2) I thought he'd never see another Bond film that he dislikes less than Live And Let Die, but QOS managed to do it. In fact, he disliked QOS so much that he almost got up and left during the film.

I didn't get into too much detail with him, but the one major gripe my dad had was that Quantum Of Solace wasn't a 007 film because Bond doesn't act/behave like that. He also said that if Bond 23 is anything like QOS, he will give up on the Daniel Craig era! (And he liked Casino Royale!)

#160 quantumofsolace

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 02:20 PM

I was talking to my dad on Christmas and I asked him if he'd seen Quantum Of Solace and he said he had, but his verdict was a less than ringing endorsement to say the least. He absolutely hated it and considers it the worst film in the series, which totally shocked me for two reasons because 1) he either likes or finds okay all but one film in the series and 2) I thought he'd never see another Bond film that he dislikes less than Live And Let Die, but QOS managed to do it. In fact, he disliked QOS so much that he almost got up and left during the film.

I didn't get into too much detail with him, but the one major gripe my dad had was that Quantum Of Solace wasn't a 007 film because Bond doesn't act/behave like that. He also said that if Bond 23 is anything like QOS, he will give up on the Daniel Craig era! (And he liked Casino Royale!)


Give him,as a present,some of the Fleming novels to read. Or perhaps not, as he'd probably have a heart attack!

Edited by quantumofsolace, 27 December 2008 - 02:22 PM.