42 replies to this topic

[draxingtonstanley]

Whoops sorry. Operator error there. Was trying to quote someone else's thread and ended up repeating my own.

Edited by draxingtonstanley, 07 November 2008 - 01:15 PM.

[double o ego]

The whole revenge story is blurred from the beginning.

No, it was blurred by poor markting. QUANTUM OF SOLACE is probably going to go down as one of the most mis-marketed films in the franchise; someone pointed out that Bond is simply looking for answers first and foremost, it's everyone around him who thinks he's out for revenge. I gathered as much from the "I don't think the dead care about vengeance" line.

And the 'I'm motivated by my duty"line was another clue. To be fair,I never felt QoS was going to be simply a 'loose cannon on deck/personal vendetta' affair.

I can understand that people are confused, with or without the marketing. If he's looking for answers, why kill everyone before they get a chance to answer?

Because they're trying to kill him. Notice every person Bond killed was a result of them trying to kill him first and it was a kill or be killed situation he was in. At the end of the day, none of that matters because Greene was stopped (Bond didn't kill him) and Yusef was brought to justice also, both providing mi6 with the info they needed. Yet, wait for it, Bond left them alive.

[MattofSteel]

Secret Agent Fan,

Thanks for this. I am yet to see the film - but your preamble about your state of mind going in is identical to mind. I would name those same criticisms as a sort of negativity consensus regarding the film, and I feel much the same way.

The downside of reading these reviews is that you start to pre-judge the film dangerously. But every comment you've made on a major criticism is what I've HOPED to get from the film when I see it myself next week. Makes me happy that someone else has seen it that way.

Thanks.

[Bond Bug]

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is unfortunate you will not give examples of character development. It is easy to say things like it had good character development without giving examples - or to say go and find out what somebody else has written. I'm looking for something deeper than a Steven Seagal movie.

I am, too. That´s why I don´t like Seagal movies.

I actually did not give examples, as I pointed out, because you can find them in the excellent posts of the named board members.

But if you insist that I fill this thread until the mods call an ambulance, here you are:

- Bond learning that "the dead don´t care about vengeance" and keeping Yussef alive.
- Camille learning that her need for revenge lends her in a burning hell, a prison that only oneself has the ability to leave
- Bond apologising to Mathis for having doubted his trust and friendship
- Bond forming a new friendship with Mathis
- Bond trusting M
- M trusting Bond

Steven Seagal in a very bad Polish/American straight to DVD flick with some dubbing

- Seagal learns that despite his peaceful existence he must use violence to save the girl
- Seagal and the girl form a relationship (non sexual)
- The girl trusting Seagal
- Seagal trusting the girl
- when one character has the self-knowledge to admit "There is something bad I did in my past, and I'm trying to make up for it."
- Seagal forming a new friendship

No that does not mean it has any depth. Sorry but you could take ANY movie, however superficial and come up with a list like that. I found Quantum very shallow and I don't see evidence it wasn't.

[draxingtonstanley]

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is unfortunate you will not give examples of character development. It is easy to say things like it had good character development without giving examples - or to say go and find out what somebody else has written. I'm looking for something deeper than a Steven Seagal movie.

I am, too. That´s why I don´t like Seagal movies.

I actually did not give examples, as I pointed out, because you can find them in the excellent posts of the named board members.

But if you insist that I fill this thread until the mods call an ambulance, here you are:

- Bond learning that "the dead don´t care about vengeance" and keeping Yussef alive.
- Camille learning that her need for revenge lends her in a burning hell, a prison that only oneself has the ability to leave
- Bond apologising to Mathis for having doubted his trust and friendship
- Bond forming a new friendship with Mathis
- Bond trusting M
- M trusting Bond

Steven Seagal in a very bad Polish/American straight to DVD flick with some dubbing

- Seagal learns that despite his peaceful existence he must use violence to save the girl
- Seagal and the girl form a relationship (non sexual)
- The girl trusting Seagal
- Seagal trusting the girl
- when one character has the self-knowledge to admit "There is something bad I did in my past, and I'm trying to make up for it."
- Seagal forming a new friendship

No that does not mean it has any depth. Sorry but you could take ANY movie, however superficial and come up with a list like that. I found Quantum very shallow and I don't see evidence it wasn't.

Reductio ad absurdum.

You can take any film,or story and reduce it to 5 or less plot points. You found QOS shallow. I didn't. Certainly not for a Bond film anyway.

We must agree to disagree.

[Bond Bug]

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is unfortunate you will not give examples of character development. It is easy to say things like it had good character development without giving examples - or to say go and find out what somebody else has written. I'm looking for something deeper than a Steven Seagal movie.

I am, too. That´s why I don´t like Seagal movies.

I actually did not give examples, as I pointed out, because you can find them in the excellent posts of the named board members.

But if you insist that I fill this thread until the mods call an ambulance, here you are:

- Bond learning that "the dead don´t care about vengeance" and keeping Yussef alive.
- Camille learning that her need for revenge lends her in a burning hell, a prison that only oneself has the ability to leave
- Bond apologising to Mathis for having doubted his trust and friendship
- Bond forming a new friendship with Mathis
- Bond trusting M
- M trusting Bond

Steven Seagal in a very bad Polish/American straight to DVD flick with some dubbing

- Seagal learns that despite his peaceful existence he must use violence to save the girl
- Seagal and the girl form a relationship (non sexual)
- The girl trusting Seagal
- Seagal trusting the girl
- when one character has the self-knowledge to admit "There is something bad I did in my past, and I'm trying to make up for it."
- Seagal forming a new friendship

No that does not mean it has any depth. Sorry but you could take ANY movie, however superficial and come up with a list like that. I found Quantum very shallow and I don't see evidence it wasn't.

Reductio ad absurdum.

You can take any film,or story and reduce it to 5 or less plot points. You found QOS shallow. I didn't. Certainly not for a Bond film anyway.

We must agree to disagree.

I am happy we all have different opinions. I am just trying to understand. Sorry if I sound like a "bug" that needs to be swatted! I guess I don't need to understand.

[Zorin Industries]

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is unfortunate you will not give examples of character development. It is easy to say things like it had good character development without giving examples - or to say go and find out what somebody else has written. I'm looking for something deeper than a Steven Seagal movie.

I am, too. That´s why I don´t like Seagal movies.

I actually did not give examples, as I pointed out, because you can find them in the excellent posts of the named board members.

But if you insist that I fill this thread until the mods call an ambulance, here you are:

- Bond learning that "the dead don´t care about vengeance" and keeping Yussef alive.
- Camille learning that her need for revenge lends her in a burning hell, a prison that only oneself has the ability to leave
- Bond apologising to Mathis for having doubted his trust and friendship
- Bond forming a new friendship with Mathis
- Bond trusting M
- M trusting Bond

Steven Seagal in a very bad Polish/American straight to DVD flick with some dubbing

- Seagal learns that despite his peaceful existence he must use violence to save the girl
- Seagal and the girl form a relationship (non sexual)
- The girl trusting Seagal
- Seagal trusting the girl
- when one character has the self-knowledge to admit "There is something bad I did in my past, and I'm trying to make up for it."
- Seagal forming a new friendship

No that does not mean it has any depth. Sorry but you could take ANY movie, however superficial and come up with a list like that. I found Quantum very shallow and I don't see evidence it wasn't.

Are you not a fan of the wrong franchise?

[pgram]

I thought about posting some comments on your review but it feels so conclusive, that i don't see the point now. What I don't understand is where you found the points of criticism you mention in the beginning of your review. I 've read plenty of the reviews written so far, and written one myself and i haven't found some the points you mention. Still, I haven't read them all, so I might have missed some.

[NATO Sub]

Are you not a fan of the wrong franchise?

By jove, I think you've got it! "Bond Bug" needs to change their username to "potterfan" or "segalrulez"

[SecretAgentFan]

There's nothing original in QOS. Been-there-done-that is written all over the film.

We seem to view this film with totally different viewpoints. Or maybe I´m just too bad at explaining. If you describe the film as "Bond following a lead, then a fight scene, Bond following the next lead, then a fight scene", then you are right. In this respect QOS does not break new ground. But no thriller does - this plot line is part of the genre. However, the way the story is told, for example, visually, is groundbreaking and fresh for the Bond film franchise. Or can you name any Bond film that is similar in that respect?

We have seen similar action before. That style of editing is nothing new. There's no particular plot twist that feels fresh. None of characters are in any way memorable. Is that enough?

Okay, lots of points. Similar action before (car chase, boat chase, plane chase, fire chase) - yes. But in that way? Can´t remember - what Bond film do you mean? That style of editing is of course not new. But as I tried to explain, this is just a tool that will be used by lots of other films. And it´s not about the tool, it´s about the way you use it.

There is no new fresh plot twist? Actually, I would disagree here. But what feels fresh or not is, of course, highly subjective. The fact that during the interrogation of Mr. White a traitor is exposed surprised me as a great plot twist. What happens with Mathis and when also was a twist for me, also the way Bond reacts to this. The way Camille reacts in the burning hotel was unexpected by me. The way Bond reacts in the desert with Greene and later in Russia with Yussef also were unexpected by me.

None of the characters are in any way memorable? Well, to me these are very memorable: Bond, Camille, Mathis, Greene, the CIA guy Mr. Beam.

The villains plot (the MacGuffin all bondfilms needs) is very poor and not well executed.

Actually, it is extremely well and efficiently executed: Greene buys land that seems totally barren from Medrano. He promises to keep him in office by keeping the CIA in line. The CIA only wants the oil that is found in that land. Greene agrees, knowing that it is water that makes the land so valuable. With this water he can now blackmail the whole country. Perfect plan and very authentic and realistic (google it).

Vesper committed suicide, so what's the big deal? There's no killer to chase. Is Bond chasing her boyfriend? Why bother? He was Kidnapped. The whole revenge story is blurred from the beginning.

It troubles me that you consider Vesper´s suicide no big deal. Bond fell in love with her and was ready to give everything up for her. Then he finds out that she betrayed him. He also has to suspect that Vesper was set up by Mr.White and his organization which is responsible for her death. So Bond actually has a group of killers to chase, including Quantum member Yussef who made Vesper betray Bond. There is nothing blurred about this revenge story, actually.

How many dictators have you met in real life? I doubt they are that boring and predictable.

On this one, you got me. I must confess: I haven´t met any dictator in real life. I never said, however, that they are boring or predictable. But I do suspect that they fulfill the cliché of doing anything to get or stay in power and that they think they can behave towards women (or people in general) as they like. That´s what Medrano does. And that´s what other dictators, as history proves, do. So...

[Bond Bug]

Are you not a fan of the wrong franchise?

By jove, I think you've got it! "Bond Bug" needs to change their username to "potterfan" or "segalrulez"

Never seen a Harry Potter movie in my life and certainly no Steven Seagal fan - especially after seeing him in an interview.

[Bond Bug]

Similar action before (car chase, boat chase, plane chase, fire chase) - yes. But in that way? Can´t remember - what Bond film do you mean? That style of editing is of course not new. But as I tried to explain, this is just a tool that will be used by lots of other films. And it´s not about the tool, it´s about the way you use it.
.

What was original about the car chase? Apart from the editing that made it hard to watch? I suggest it lacked originality from the start. I'm hearing a lot about how original it was, but I can't say I saw much originality. What specifically was original about it?

[bond 16.05.72]

Bond Bug why can't you just except others liked it insted of popping into every positive review and pushing your opinionated view on it or going into every negative and kissing the backside of the person who gave it.

Your very predictable, you didn't like it much I think we've grasped that, why waste your time trying to disprove people who obviously enjoyed and rated it.