76 replies to this topic

[Gri007]

I havn't read Colonel Sun but I hear it is a good book and would no doubt be good film. There are dozens of novels which havn't been turned into Bond movies, and the producers say that they don't know which way to turn for ideas for the films. It's obvious. make the bloody books into films. pleeeeeeeeeeeese.

[DLibrasnow]

There were rumors floating around fast and furious in media in the early 1990s that Timothy Dalton would be appearing in a movie version of COLONEL SUN.

Of course at that point Michael France was working on one of the four separate scripts commissioned by MGM/EON at that time so I doubt they were more than just rumors.

[Bryce (003)]

*Fires Q Branch Flare*

Yo!

Loomis!

Get in here!

I'm a champion of "Colonel Sun" as a Bond film. It's a great book and could be a fantastic Bond film.

Welcome to CBn Gri007! and do a search for Colonel Sun. You'll see our posts and ideas. It needs/screams to be done!

[Loomis]

*Fires Q Branch Flare*

Yo!

Loomis!

Get in here!

Evening, 003.

Yes, well, what can I say? COLONEL SUN for BOND 22 - would be an especially suitable vehicle for Owen's Bond, if Owen's Bond is something that'll come to pass.

My ideas for a CS film:

http://debrief.comma...98

[Righty007]

We got Colonel Tan-Sun Moon in Die Another Day.

[Qwerty]

I havn't read Colonal Sun but I hear it is a good book and would no doubt be good film.  There are dozens of novels which havn't been turned into Bond movies, and the producers say that they don't know which way to turn for ideas for the films.  It obvoiuse.  make the bloody books into films.  pleeeeeeeeeeeese.

Quite. Check out the posts in this section for some past ideas on this very topic. (Be sure to check out those of Loomis, he worships this book. )

I need to read this one again soon.

[Bryce (003)]

*Fires Q Branch Flare*

Yo!

Loomis!

Get in here!

Evening, 003.

http://debrief.comma...98

Evening yourself Loomis.

Again, needs to be done.

'nuff said.

[Loomis]

We got Colonel Tan-Sun Moon in Die Another Day.

I guess DIE ANOTHER DAY could easily have been called COLONEL SUN, with a slight name change for Moon (assuming Sun is a Korean surname, although I gather Zao isn't and they got away with that, so....). Would have fitted in with that whole "let's throw in every Bond reference but the kitchen sink" 40th anniversary extravaganza vibe.

Would've been a travesty of Amis' novel, natch, but, hey, it's not as though anyone's expecting an ultra-faithful CASINO ROYALE, eh, old man?

[DLibrasnow]

I like your screen treatment Loomis. Except for the change of lacale from Greece to China. I am a little tired of the Asian emphasis in the last three Brosnan pictures.

In Tomorrow Never Dies we had China and Vietnam.
In The World Is Not Enough we had Turkey and Afghanistan.- may have been more but since I've only seen it once i don't remember.
In Die Another Day we had Hong Kong and Korea.

[Loomis]

I like your screen treatment Loomis. Except for the change of lacale from Greece to China. I am a little tired of the Asian emphasis in the last three Brosnan pictures.

In Tomorrow Never Dies we had China and Vietnam.
In The World Is Not Enough we had Turkey and Afghanistan.- may have been more but since I've only seen it once i don't remember.
In Die Another Day we had Hong Kong and Korea.

Thanks, D. Not sure we had China in TOMORROW NEVER DIES, though. Chinese territorial waters, arguably.

Mind you, we've had none of those Far Eastern locations done properly. Vietnam was Thailand, and Hong Kong and Korea were mocked up in the UK. Very poor. Whatever happened to that wonderful old-time travelogue element that's such an important part of all the best Bond films - YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, for instance?

[basildon_bond]

I think you have confused China and Vietnam here. Sorry to be the one to point that out. Bond completes his HALO jump into Vietnamese waters.

Edited by basildon_bond, 14 April 2005 - 02:54 PM.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

There were rumors floating around fast and furious in media in the early 1990s that Timothy Dalton would be appearing in a movie version of COLONEL SUN.

It's movie posters might have looked like this:

http://007art.free.f...ls/colonel1.htm

http://007art.free.f...ls/colonel2.htm

[TheSaint]

That 2nd Colonel Sun poster is pretty tame, using the Paul Gulacy art from the cover to Serpent's Tooth #3.

[spynovelfan]

it's not as though anyone's expecting an ultra-faithful CASINO ROYALE, eh, old man?

Would you even want one, though? Quite apart from the dated plot (Sino-Soviet split, 1967-68), it wouldn't be terribly exciting on film. The villain never moves, and his plot is pretty small potatoes. Bond could be called John Smith for all the Bond stuff he does. What memorable scenes would there be from an ultra-faithful film adaptation, the ending excepted? The good thing about the book is Amis' prose. I can't see how you could stretch the book out into an exciting full-length feature without radically changing it. Your treatment could work very well - but it's got very little in common with COLONEL SUN. It's no closer to it than THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH was, really.

In your treatment, you have Bond go to China, which is not in the book:

"All clues point to M having been taken to Greece, but Bond suspects that the people behind the kidnapping are trying to get him to walk into a trap. Instead, he wants to follow a lead to Beijing."

That episode is necessary, perhaps, because it adds a much-needed other location. The book has just two, effectively: London and an island that could really be anywhere - there's no very convincing reason for it to be off Greece in the book; it's a neutral place between two others to hold a conference. But, like the book, there needs to be at least some half-decent reason for him to go to China. He follows the lead despite all the clues saying Greece, and then:

"After various escapades in and around the Chinese capital (including a couple between the sheets with Jenny Li), Bond discovers that Sun may be in Greece and may have been involved in M's kidnapping. Bond decides to go to Greece after all..."

As a reader/viewer, I'm just thinking 'Well, that whole China thing was a waste of time, then, wasn't it? Bond messed up (very unlike him) - should have just gone to Greece like everyone said. And what happened to Tanner's advice that he was in an end-game of office politics, and would face dire consequences if he was to screw up? I know your treatment's just a post, and you made it a while ago, and it's not set in stone. I'm trying to show how tricky I think it would be to make what was effectively a lengthened novella by Amis into a decent Bond film. Not that easy. All the stuff that makes your treatment interesting - the continuation aspect, Bond worrying about ageing, the darkness and violence - there are glimpses of all of that in the novel, but it's hardly necessary to adapt that novel to have or have had those elements. I'd like to see a Bond film with those three elements, and some of the others in your idea - but I'm not sure I'd like to see them with COLONEL SUN's story, or anything like it.

Edited by spynovelfan, 14 April 2005 - 08:21 AM.

[Loomis]

A large part of TND is set in China, me ol' mucker!  Helicopter?  Motorbike?  Bond and Wai Lin handcuffed together?  Ring any bells?

I think you have confused China and Vietnam here.  Sorry to be the one to point that out.  Bond completes his HALO jump into Vietnamese waters.

Not disputing that Bond completes his HALO jump into Vietnamese waters.

"Helicopter? Motorbike? Bond and Wai Lin handcuffed together? Ring any bells?"

Yep. Vietnam.

"A large part of TND is set in China, me ol' mucker!"

Which part?

[DLibrasnow]

Chinese territorial waters. That's why the Devonshire gets sunk.

[Loomis]

Chinese territorial waters. That's why the Devonshire gets sunk.

Yes, but they weren't really Chinese territorial waters, were they?

[Loomis]

In your treatment, you have Bond go to China, which is not in the book:

"All clues point to M having been taken to Greece, but Bond suspects that the people behind the kidnapping are trying to get him to walk into a trap. Instead, he wants to follow a lead to Beijing."

That episode is necessary, perhaps, because it adds a much-needed other location. The book has just two, effectively: London and an island that could really be anywhere - there's no very convincing reason for it to be off Greece in the book; it's a neutral place between two others to hold a conference. But, like the book, there needs to be at least some half-decent reason for him to go to China. He follows the lead despite all the clues saying Greece, and then:

"After various escapades in and around the Chinese capital (including a couple between the sheets with Jenny Li), Bond discovers that Sun may be in Greece and may have been involved in M's kidnapping. Bond decides to go to Greece after all..."

As a reader/viewer, I'm just thinking 'Well, that whole China thing was a waste of time, then, wasn't it? Bond messed up (very unlike him) - should have just gone to Greece like everyone said. And what happened to Tanner's advice that he was in an end-game of office politics, and would face dire consequences if he was to screw up? I know your treatment's just a post, and you made it a while ago, and it's not set in stone.

A waste of time?

In China, Bond teams up with Chinese secret agent Jenny Li, who has been investigating Sun Liangtan, a rogue army officer who has disappeared and may be part of some sort of large-scale conspiracy also involving Von Richter, an aristocratic German posing as a businessman in Beijing. After various escapades in and around the Chinese capital (including a couple between the sheets with Jenny Li), Bond discovers that Sun may be in Greece and may have been involved in M's kidnapping. Bond decides to go to Greece after all, and Jenny is about to go with him when she is murdered by Von Richter. Von Richter disappears and 007 - whom the bad guys think is dead - goes alone to Greece, where he teams up with Greek agent Ariadne Alexandrou, whose boss is Niko Litsas.

Well, call me biased ( ) but I think there's quite a bit of decent stuff there. As well as "a much-needed other location", it provides a secondary Bond girl, who becomes the (as I think Benson puts it in his "Bedside Companion") Obligatory Sacrificial Lamb and gives Bond even more motivation to nail Sun and his crew (query, though, whether he needs any more motivation, M having been kidnapped). It also introduces the other main villain, Von Richter. And, of course, there'd be action sequences in China, although I've made no mention of them - I've always wanted to see a chase of some sort involving the Forbidden City, with Roger Moore's commentary for tourists worked into the soundtrack briefly for a giggle.

You say that "there needs to be at least some half-decent reason for him to go to China" - I like the idea of Bond wanting to do some independent investigating before walking straight into what is very obviously a trap in Greece. Makes him look more intelligent, resourceful, etc. - so he decides to follow "a lead to Beijing" (goes without saying that someone writing a screenplay from this synopsis would have to make sure that that lead was credible and solid).

Not sure why you think "Bond messed up (very unlike him) - should have just gone to Greece like everyone said". Going to Beijing has given him valuable information on the bad guys and what they might be up to, which he wouldn't have had otherwise; also, he now has the edge over them - by the time he turns up in Greece, Sun and co. think he died in China.

"And what happened to Tanner's advice that he was in an end-game of office politics, and would face dire consequences if he was to screw up?" Well, he doesn't screw up, and he goes on to save the day. It's a Bond film!

Sorry if I'm coming across as arrogant/defensive. As you say, it's "just a post", but I'm not convinced that the China segment I've proposed wouldn't work or would seem superfluous. I dunno, though - maybe I'm overlooking something.

[spynovelfan]

I wasn't clear enough. I'm beign overly harsh because, as you say, a scropt would tighten some of this up. The ideas in the script are all great. China would work. But *in the context of the story as you have presented it so far*, I have a problem. As I understand it, M has been kidnapped. That's fairly urgent. Everything points to it being in Greece. Bond's superiours suggest he goes to Greece. In the novel, this is all the same, only Bodn figures out it's Greece and suggests he goes himself, I think. In the novel, he *knows it is a trap but decides to go anyway*. It's the fastest way to get to M, so he puts himself in the line of fire. That's one of my favourite points in the book, in fact. mainly because I'm a Quiller fan and that is a feature of nearly every single one of Quiller's missions - he puts himself in the spider's web so he can get closer to the spider. Your idea is that instead of goign to Greece, Bond jets off to China. He messes up because M is actually in Greece all along! It suits you, as the screenwriter, that it provides a scarifical lamb and introduces another villain. But that's thinking from outside the film. Sure, he finds more stuff out, he has an edge on them... in your screenplay. You say he's found out more stuff than he would have done if he'd just gone to Greece. Um... depends on what you would have done had he gone to Greece, no? You could have had him go straight to Greece, find it all out, find another girl, get an edge over them, and so on. The only reason for China is that you as a scriptwriter want him to go there. In terms of the plot as you have currently (or whatever!) outlined it, it's a red herring. A red herrign you've put some good stuff into, but we already had the Greece clue as viewers 45 minutes ago. To learn that it was there all along is disappointing, and no amoiunt of 'Yeah, but now he has more info' is going to stop that. M has been kidnapped. It's urgent. The films have to be travelogues by accident, not by design.

Sorry. I don't mean to sound harsh, Loomis. Honestly, I think your screenplay could work, and I'm being a miserable pedant. If it's any consolation, I think Amis' plot is a lot less interesting, and has more holes. Again, there's no convincign reason for the action to take place in Greece. Someone recently mentioned Cyprus as being a perfect place for a Bond film, because of its history and British presence. Precisely. That's how a location should work. It needs to be inextricably entwined with the plot. Not just because - as I suspect in Amis' case - the author knows the place from holidaying there and is confident he can describe every crag. In your treatment, there's actually more reason for it overall to be set in China - Sun is Chinese, after all - than Greece. But if you have Tanner saying that it looks like M's been taken to Greece, Bond thinks it's a trap and goes to China instead, and then finds out it's in Greece and goes there after all, we wonder what happened to his fear of the trap, and why Tanner isn't sticcking his tongue out and going 'Nanananana 007, do you believe me *now*?' while, in the meantime, M has lost his testicles.

I love you, really.

[DLibrasnow]

Chinese territorial waters. That's why the Devonshire gets sunk.

Yes, but they weren't really Chinese territorial waters, were they?

Yes they were....it was the HMS Devonshire that had the screwy satallite fix. The Chinese had the right position.

They (the crew of the Devonshire) thought they were in international waters but in fact they were in Chinese territorial waters.

[Loomis]

But *in the context of the story as you have presented it so far*, I have a problem. As I understand it, M has been kidnapped. That's fairly urgent. Everything points to it being in Greece. Bond's superiours suggest he goes to Greece. In the novel, this is all the same, only Bodn figures out it's Greece and suggests he goes himself, I think. In the novel, he *knows it is a trap but decides to go anyway*. It's the fastest way to get to M, so he puts himself in the line of fire. That's one of my favourite points in the book, in fact. mainly because I'm a Quiller fan and that is a feature of nearly every single one of Quiller's missions - he puts himself in the spider's web so he can get closer to the spider. Your idea is that instead of goign to Greece, Bond jets off to China. He messes up because M is actually in Greece all along!

Okay, but even if Bond does mess up.... well, wouldn't that be refreshing? Point taken about Bond's not going immediately to Greece suggesting an unwillingness to put himself in the spider's web (although, obviously, he's hardly jetting off to China for a holiday), but couldn't you argue that it shows some independence of thought on Bond's part? His superiors have been warning him about toeing the line and doing as he's told and so on, but when the **** hits the fan what does our hero do? Well, he does as he's always done - he thinks for himself.

You say he's found out more stuff than he would have done if he'd just gone to Greece. Um... depends on what you would have done had he gone to Greece, no? You could have had him go straight to Greece, find it all out, find another girl, get an edge over them, and so on.

Sure. There are dozens, hundreds, of ways you could write it.

The only reason for China is that you as a scriptwriter want him to go there. In terms of the plot as you have currently (or whatever!) outlined it, it's a red herring. A red herrign you've put some good stuff into, but we already had the Greece clue as viewers 45 minutes ago. To learn that it was there all along is disappointing, and no amoiunt of 'Yeah, but now he has more info' is going to stop that. M has been kidnapped. It's urgent. The films have to be travelogues by accident, not by design.

No, a red herring would be taking Bond to, say, the Caribbean, and writing a couple of amazing action scenes, and then whisking him off to Greece and M and Sun without having advanced the plot or developed any of the characters. That said, I actually feel the Bonds should be travelogues by design, not accident. (I know, I know, usually locations should grow organically out of a story, instead of a story being shoehorned into locations, but I view the Bond series as a special case.)

Heck, you could set "Colonel Sun" entirely in Greece, with M already there when he gets kidnapped, and 007 coincidentally on holiday there. But what would be the point?

Anyway, by having Bond go to China, we display his ability to think outside the box and his determination to follow his instincts; we introduce a sympathetic Chinese character (Jenny Li) and establish the fact that "China" isn't the enemy - a rogue military man is the enemy (very DIE ANOTHER DAY, no?). Gotta factor in the growing importance of the box office in the People's Republic!

And M's kidnapping is surely no more urgent than the ticking atomic timebombs of NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, a movie which nonetheless finds time for 007 to swan about the globe.

Sorry. I don't mean to sound harsh, Loomis. Honestly, I think your screenplay could work, and I'm being a miserable pedant.

LOL! No, some excellent points and a stimulating discussion, as usual, spy, no offence taken/intended, etc. etc.

[Loomis]

Chinese territorial waters. That's why the Devonshire gets sunk.

Yes, but they weren't really Chinese territorial waters, were they?

Yes they were....it was the HMS Devonshire that had the screwy satallite fix. The Chinese had the right position.

They (the crew of the Devonshire) thought they were in international waters but in fact they were in Chinese territorial waters.

Ah. Okay. Still, "territorial waters" don't really count location-wise, not in my book. After all, you don't come away from TOMORROW NEVER DIES thinking about the great Chinese locations, do you?

And wasn't the Devonshire sunk in Vietnamese waters?

[basildon_bond]

Let's clear this up now.
FACT: HMS Devonshire was sunk in Chinese territoral waters. Hence the Chines MIGs flying over the ship and giving it a warning to turn around, etc.
FACT: Bond's HALO jump is into Vietnamese waters. Here's a direct quote if you don't believe me!
"Technically, they're not actually Chinese territorial waters. They belong to Vietnam."
FACT: The bike chase is in Vietnam. Saigon, actually.

[DLibrasnow]

Still we haven't seen greece since FYEO. Its high time Bond went back there.

[Loomis]

Let's clear this up now.
FACT: HMS Devonshire was sunk in Chinese territoral waters.  Hence the Chines MIGs flying over the ship and giving it a warning to turn around, etc.
FACT: Bond's HALO jump is into Vietnamese waters.  Here's a direct quote if you don't believe me!
"Technically, they're not actually Chinese territorial waters.  They belong to Vietnam."
FACT: The bike chase is in Vietnam.  Saigon, actually.

Isn't this:

FACT: HMS Devonshire was sunk in Chinese territoral waters. Hence the Chines MIGs flying over the ship and giving it a warning to turn around, etc.

contradicted by this:

FACT: Bond's HALO jump is into Vietnamese waters. Here's a direct quote if you don't believe me!
"Technically, they're not actually Chinese territorial waters. They belong to Vietnam."?

I mean, if the ship was sunk in Chinese waters, how can Bond be jumping into Vietnamese waters to reach the wreck? Either the Devonshire went down in Chinese waters or it went down in Vietnamese waters - can't be both.

FACT: The bike chase is in Vietnam. Saigon, actually.

Once again, no one's disputing that.

All I'm saying is that there are no (dry land) Chinese locations in TOMORROW NEVER DIES.

[spynovelfan]

Its high time

Would you mind not using that phrase? It might give people ideas.

[DLibrasnow]

Loomis. Bond does the HALO jump into Vietnamese territorial waters, but the HMS Devonshire is sunk in Chinese territorial waters. They only realize that he is jumping into Vietnamese waters until after he has left the plane.

[Genrewriter]

I think it would make a great film (though we've already had M kidnapped in TWINE). Good ideas, Loomis.

[Sam Fisher]

The first poster for Col Sun is awesome

What about The Man With The Red Tatoo?

[DLibrasnow]

I like the underwater effect at the bottom of the second one, but the image of Dalton looks like it comes from a cartoon.