42 replies to this topic

[DLibrasnow]

That would make me a self-loather then since I am half-English.

Spynovelfan, surely the Young Bond series is canon since it was commissioned by IFP?

[David Schofield]

That would make me a self-loather then since I am half-English.

Spynovelfan, surely the Young Bond series is canon since it was commissioned by IFP?

Come on, DLib - see my earlier reply - only Fleming is canon

[spynovelfan]

Spynovelfan, surely the Young Bond series is canon since it was commissioned by IFP?

Do you see Per Fine Ounce as canon, then? It was commissioned by Glidrose.

[spynovelfan]

But this raises the question about anyone's take on the Pearson bio now that the Young Bond books are there and - well - have to be considered "canon"...

Incidentally, I know something about Pearson's take on this, because I spoke to him yesterday. I asked if he was aware that many people regard his 'biography' of Bond as one of the best novels in the series, even though it technically isn't even a novel, and he gave a surprised laugh. 'But it's absolute crap!'

[Marc-Ange]

One can be an African American, Italian American and Irish American.

It's ridiculous- why can't they be proud to be American? Why try and make themselves more interesting and put themselves in catagories?

And I could have sworn he, in an internal monologue or something, calls himself a Scot at some point in the novels? Are there any Fleming nuts would can confirm/deny this?

When someone says they are "American" they are saying that the US is the country of their citizenship. When someone says Italian-American they are talking about their ethnic origin. No one in the US is originally "American," except the Natives, who call themselves by their nation. e.g. Cherokee, Iroquois.

Honestly, when someone is in America, we assume they are Americans. Therefore, many often articulate the origin of their forefathers as part of being American when they are assuming they are conversing with other American. Remember the US is the "melting pot." Its like asking someone "are you white?" when you are talking face to face with them, obviously they are.

When asked by a foreigner if they are an "American?" Americans say, "Yes I am an American," not, "I am Filipino-American," unless they are dual citizens. Heck some will say "Canadian."

[marktmurphy]

That would make me a self-loather then since I am half-English.

I didn't say it mate. I'd prove it but the thread was deleted due to racism.

[DLibrasnow]

I don't remember saying it, but if I did it would have had to have been part of a wind-up.

[marktmurphy]

One can be an African American, Italian American and Irish American.

It's ridiculous- why can't they be proud to be American? Why try and make themselves more interesting and put themselves in catagories?

And I could have sworn he, in an internal monologue or something, calls himself a Scot at some point in the novels? Are there any Fleming nuts would can confirm/deny this?

When someone says they are "American" they are saying that the US is the country of their citizenship. When someone says Italian-American they are talking about their ethnic origin. No one in the US is originally "American," except the Natives, who call themselves by their nation. e.g. Cherokee, Iroquois.

Honestly, when someone is in America, we assume they are Americans. Therefore, many often articulate the origin of their forefathers as part of being American when they are assuming they are conversing with other American. Remember the US is the "melting pot." Its like asking someone "are you white?" when you are talking face to face with them, obviously they are.

A white American- is that an 'English-American', then?
And if "when someone is in America, we assume they are Americans", then why the hell use the 'American' bit? Why not just say 'I'm of African descent' if it's so obvious you're American? It's a ridiculously over-elaborate label they choose to give themselves- and then I expect they complain about racism dividing the nation.
Incidentally, if America is a "melting pot", I'm not sure what Britain (or any other country for that matter) is, given the thousands of years of being over-run by French, Vikings, Romans plus immigration. I have blond hair and blue eyes, which is a sign of Nordic genes, plus my name isn't exactly English in origin; but do I call myself a Nordic-Irish-Briton? Of course I don't. My passport says British and I am an Englishman.

[marktmurphy]

I don't remember saying it, but if I did it would have had to have been part of a wind-up.

It was a thread about historical inaccuracy in movies (The Patriot; U571 etc.) and I'm afraid you said how good bad guys the English made because of their history. You expressed your dislike, and if you were joking you picked the wrong subject as racism ain't a big laugh. And it was obviously so poor a wind up the mods didn't get it either.

[Dunph]

Dunph, then u may also be European as I am. I too have Irish parents. . . and live in Britain. But being English and being British are two seperate things. . .

As for Bond being a brit - there was once a brit Bond - Roger. All the others we can tell where they come from by the accents!

We're two of a kind, Arnie Thing is though, as I was born/raised in England, that would make me English OR British, but...If I was born and raised in, say (God forbid) Wales, then I could be Welsh OR British. Do you live in England, but don't consider yourself English? Or are you outside?

So, technically speaking, I'm British English or Irish, dependant on the weather. But --unless I'm wrong-- you have to be British to be English (obviously), but not exclusively English to be British. Ifyagetme.

I'm sorry if I've just completely confused things unecessarily.

[1q2w3e4r]

Also, Bond comments as far back as Moonraker (or it could be LALD) but i'm positive it's MR that there is something "un-English" about him. I think Fleming always viewed Bond as a Scot like his own heritage.

[DLibrasnow]

Kingdom Come - We have had three British Bond actors - Connery, Moore and Dalton.

Last time I checked Scotland, England and Wales are all part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So hence a Scotsman is British, a Welshman is British and an Englishman is British.

[Marc-Ange]

One can be an African American, Italian American and Irish American.

It's ridiculous- why can't they be proud to be American? Why try and make themselves more interesting and put themselves in catagories?

And I could have sworn he, in an internal monologue or something, calls himself a Scot at some point in the novels? Are there any Fleming nuts would can confirm/deny this?

When someone says they are "American" they are saying that the US is the country of their citizenship. When someone says Italian-American they are talking about their ethnic origin. No one in the US is originally "American," except the Natives, who call themselves by their nation. e.g. Cherokee, Iroquois.

Honestly, when someone is in America, we assume they are Americans. Therefore, many often articulate the origin of their forefathers as part of being American when they are assuming they are conversing with other American. Remember the US is the "melting pot." Its like asking someone "are you white?" when you are talking face to face with them, obviously they are.

A white American- is that an 'English-American', then?
And if "when someone is in America, we assume they are Americans", then why the hell use the 'American' bit? Why not just say 'I'm of African descent' if it's so obvious you're American? It's a ridiculously over-elaborate label they choose to give themselves- and then I expect they complain about racism dividing the nation.
Incidentally, if America is a "melting pot", I'm not sure what Britain (or any other country for that matter) is, given the thousands of years of being over-run by French, Vikings, Romans plus immigration. I have blond hair and blue eyes, which is a sign of Nordic genes, plus my name isn't exactly English in origin; but do I call myself a Nordic-Irish-Briton? Of course I don't. My passport says British and I am an Englishman.

America is the melting pot because of the way the country formed. People from so many countries have come over here and in very short fashion. Remember the US is only 230 years old as a country, not the thousand of the British Isles. Its part of keeping the heritage of our forefathers alive. And, as a result, American culture reflects many influences

As far as say ___-american for race, well its convention. Its a hell of a lot easier than saying my parents migrated from Ireland. If you asked someone who was visiting the UK from the US, I would assume that they would just say they are American. If they did not, then that is their own personal identification issue. Over the internet, one just assumes that they are in their own country not the who world.

Oh, if your white, you are not necessarily English. Irish, Italians, Welsh. Gone with the Wind, that famous book is about a southern family that is Irish. Its a way of giving information that has become, again, convention.