42 replies to this topic

[Righty007]

I'm reading SilverFin right now and it has made me wonder about whether or not James Bond is British. We all call him a British secret agent but it doesn't seem right.

James Bond was born in Zurich. His father, Andrew Bond, was Scottish and his mother, Monique Delacroix, was Swiss. How can James be British?

Sorry if this is a stupid question...

[Righty007]

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

He lives in London and works for British intelligence.....that's the best I can do..It's more an invention of the movies, I think.

I've always kind of chuckled when people refer to Bond as British

[Blofeld's Cat]

Well, most children assume the nationality of the father, and while Bond's father was Scottish Scotland is part of Britain (along with Wales) so he's Scottish as a result.

[Dunph]

Jesus was born in a stable, doesn't mean he was a horse

Bond was raised for the majority of his life in England, so technically he's English, though it would be up to him as to what he'd refer to himself as.

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]Simple, he is a British citizen. As a Scot, his father was British. I

[Dunph]

My parents are Irish, but I was born and raised in England, which means I have dual nationality. The same sort of thing would apply to Bond.

[Marc-Ange]

I think you have dual Citizenship maybe. Your Nationality is Irish. Nationality is more of a "my people" and "my culture" and "my heritage" thing. Citizenship is a legal term.

If you were to ask Bond his Nationality I would venture to guess he would say "my father was a Scot and my mother was Swiss." You ask which government he works for he would say "British." However, he has lived most of his life in England. He might say British as his nationality as a concession to a combination of an English rearing and Scottish lineage.

Great Britain, now called the United Kingdom, is a united kingdom of Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and England. Britons were a people who ruled England. "British" was adopted as a term to describe those who were citizens of Great Britain since the Britons as a people kinda faded away. If you ask a person whose ancestors come from Wales their nationality though and they will say welsh. Ask a Scotsman theirs and they will say they are Scottish. Ask someone from Northern Ireland and they will say...well some may say English, but most will say Irish.

So, Bond is British, legally speaking. His passport is British. Just remember that no one is a Briton anymore.

Edited by Marc-Ange, 28 February 2005 - 07:43 AM.

[DLibrasnow]

[quote name='Marc-Ange' date='28 February 2005 - 02:37'] Britons were a people who ruled England.

[Dunph]

I think you have dual Citizenship maybe.  Your Nationality is Irish.  Nationality is more of a "my people" and "my culture" and "my heritage" thing.  Citizenship is a legal term.

If you were to ask Bond his Nationality I would venture to guess he would say "my father was a Scot and my mother was Swiss."  You ask which government he works for he would say "British."  However, he has lived most of his life in England.  He might say British as his nationality as a concession to a combination of an English rearing and Scottish lineage.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant, Cheers for that Marc-Ange, good post!

[Mister Asterix]

...He might say British as his nationality as a concession to a combination of an English rearing and Scottish lineage...

[mra]Let

[marktmurphy]

I could have sworn I've read a novel where he thinks of himself as being a Scot- but that's much in the same vein as a member of the Sopranos saying they're Italian. Perhaps in lineage and temprament he's scottish, but he's an Englishman. Definitely British by his own reckoning and by the law.

Why is it so many people take pride in calling themselves foreign? I've even done it myself. Why are some people ashamed to be English? (Dlibrasnow need not answer that question!)

[Dunph]

Oh, I'm proud to be English when abroad, I'm just not English when I'm in England.

Not entirely sure why though.

[YOLT]

Bond is British but not English. He has %50 German blood but no English blood

[marktmurphy]

Oh, I'm proud to be English when abroad, I'm just not English when I'm in England.

Not entirely sure why though.

Just saw what you said above and wanted to say that my question wasn't aimed at you- it's just something I've noticed a lot. Seems to spread to other countries too- have you noticed how many Americans call themselves African, Italian or Irish when they're clearly American?

[Righty007]

Oh, I'm proud to be English when abroad, I'm just not English when I'm in England.

Not entirely sure why though.

Just saw what you said above and wanted to say that my question wasn't aimed at you- it's just something I've noticed a lot. Seems to spread to other countries too- have you noticed how many Americans call themselves African, Italian or Irish when they're clearly American?

One can be an African American, Italian American and Irish American.

[DLibrasnow]

Why is it so many people take pride in calling themselves foreign? I've even done it myself. Why are some people ashamed to be English? (Dlibrasnow need not answer that question!)

Hey, why was I singled out?

[stromberg]

Bond is British but not English. He has %50 German blood but no English blood

How come? Switzerland is not a part of Germany, even though Z

[DLibrasnow]

Yes, it may cause issues for some because hasn't Higson said something to the effect that he has not read the Pearson bio.

[stromberg]

Yes, it may cause issues for some because hasn't Higson said something to the effect that he has not read the Pearson bio.

Yep, forgot to include that into my post.

[Dunph]

Oh, I'm proud to be English when abroad, I'm just not English when I'm in England.

Not entirely sure why though.

Just saw what you said above and wanted to say that my question wasn't aimed at you- it's just something I've noticed a lot. Seems to spread to other countries too- have you noticed how many Americans call themselves African, Italian or Irish when they're clearly American?

No worries Mark, I didn't feel you were singling me out, I knew it was a general question. But I do notice the same thing from some people, I suppose some nationalities are more 'in vogue' than others at different points in time.

In America -for example- there were crazes for Japan and Australia in the 80s, and in England in the early 90s, Irish was the cool culture, as India was in the late 90s. It has a lot to do with popular culture of the time I think. Among other things, of course.

[1q2w3e4r]

Fleming and Bond himself have said he's Scottish.

He was "born" in Glencoe, Scotland (it's in the Highlands)

[Marc-Ange]

[quote name='DLibrasnow' date='28 February 2005 - 08:59'][quote name='Marc-Ange' date='28 February 2005 - 02:37'] Britons were a people who ruled England.

[Jim]

Simple, he is a British citizen.

Not a citizen. A subject.

I always thought he was referred to as a British secret agent because he is a secret agent of the British government - i.e. any such reference to nationality is to the institution rather than to him per se.

[David Schofield]

I could have sworn I've read a novel where he thinks of himself as being a Scot- but that's much in the same vein as a member of the Sopranos saying they're Italian. Perhaps in lineage and temprament he's scottish, but he's an Englishman. Definitely British by his own reckoning and by the law.

Why is it so many people take pride in calling themselves foreign? I've even done it myself. Why are some people ashamed to be English? (Dlibrasnow need not answer that question!)

Yes, James Bond is English. He has Scots/Swiss ancestory but has always lived in England through his adult life. Indeed, let's be honest, he always refers to himself as English in the novels before OHMSS: that is, at the time Fleming gave a nod to Connery in the movies. No one else ever refers to him as anything other than an "Englishman" (v occasionally "British" I suppose) - no one ever calls him Scottish (that's Sean Connery you're thinking off), never mind Swiss.

Bond is English because that's the way he chooses to present himself - in appearance, lifestyle and culture.

[spynovelfan]

But this raises the question about anyone's take on the Pearson bio now that the Young Bond books are there and - well - have to be considered "canon"...

Do they? What if I refuse to see the Young Bond books as canon - what's going to happen to me?

[David Schofield]

But this raises the question about anyone's take on the Pearson bio now that the Young Bond books are there and - well - have to be considered "canon"...

Do they? What if I refuse to see the Young Bond books as canon - what's going to happen to me?

Nothing - you just have no back story or continuation - Bond starts with Casino Royale and ends with the publication of the Octopussy collection including 007 in New York. Only what Fleming wrote can ever be canon.

[marktmurphy]

One can be an African American, Italian American and Irish American.

It's ridiculous- why can't they be proud to be American? Why try and make themselves more interesting and put themselves in catagories?

And I could have sworn he, in an internal monologue or something, calls himself a Scot at some point in the novels? Are there any Fleming nuts would can confirm/deny this?

[marktmurphy]

Why is it so many people take pride in calling themselves foreign? I've even done it myself. Why are some people ashamed to be English? (Dlibrasnow need not answer that question!)

Hey, why was I singled out?

Oh, I remember a previous charming comment of yours along the lines of 'I hate all english people'.

[Kingdom Come]

Dunph, then u may also be European as I am. I too have Irish parents. . . and live in Britain. But being English and being British are two seperate things. . .

As for Bond being a brit - there was once a brit Bond - Roger. All the others we can tell where they come from by the accents!