40 replies to this topic

[zencat]

Yes, it's another SilverFin story (oh that we had this much information on Bond 21)...

'SilverFin' Print Run To Number 150,000 Plus full details on the U.S. promotion

[spynovelfan]

Very interesting. Nice piece, too.

Well, at least they're marketing it properly. I wonder what age group they're aiming for. Bond is 14 in these. When I was 14 or 15, I wouldn't have read anything with a 14-year-old hero - I was reading Jack Higgins, Alistair Maclean, that kind of thing. I was given a copy of Icebreaker for my 15th birthday. Kids tend to read upwards. So I'm guessing that this would have to appeal to 12-year-olds - isn't that the Harry Potter starting age, roughly? Are kids of 12 - or even 14 or 15 - really going to want to read about Eton in the 1930s?

We'll soon find out.

(Incidentally, I don't think this is too different from the Double 0 novels idea I've been discussing in another thread. If this fails, it won't be a tremendous problem, as it's kind of a trajectory of the canon. If it succeeds, it succeeds. I just think the Double 0 idea has a bigger market - the Ludlum/Clancy/Playstation2 market.)

[zencat]

What's sort of interesting is when IFP first announced the Young Bond books they said Bond was going to be 13. But now he's 14. I guess that was because they announced it last year maybe?

But you make an excellent point, spynovelfan, and one I think both Eon and IFP should pay attention to. Bond is a projection fantasy figure for kids, he's the man they wish to become. I was first gripped by Bond watching Sean Connery in DAF. I really don't think they want a Young Bond or even a younger Bond. Bond is unique among heroes in that his age (i.e., experience) is par of the attraction, especially for kids.

[spynovelfan]

But you make an excellent point, spynovelfan, and one I think both Eon and IFP should pay attention to. Bond is a projection fantasy figure for kids, he's the man they wish to become. I was first gripped by Bond watching Sean Connery in DAF. I really don't think they want a Young Bond or even a younger Bond. Bond is unique among heroes in that his age (i.e., experience) is par of the attraction, especially for kids.

But surely they discussed all of that and figured out how this would work. Didn't they?

I can't see it working myself. I can see it selling more than Benson's stuff just because there was clearly the potential to sell more of Benson's books if they'd only *printed more of them*. But a series of bona fide hits? I really can't understand who they think will read it. I'm not going to read something about a 13-year-old Bond at Eton in the 30s unless it's aimed at adults. Kids aren't going to read about a 13-year-old Bond at Eton in the 30s unless it's aimed at adults - and has lots of sniper rifles in it.

Sometimes I wonderif the people at IFP are living on another planet. Someone thought this was a great idea - 'Let's bloody beat Harry Potter and Alex Rider at their own game, chaps!' - and for Higson it's a dream come true, of course. But commercial sense? Where's the market? What are they hoping might happen?

If you're going to spring off the Fleming universe, why not research what sells? If done properly, novels featuring the double 0 agents, set in the 60s, could appeal to all the 25 and upwards old-school Bond fans who want period Fleming-esque continuations, and all the Silent Assassin/Hitman/XIII/Goldeneye/Clancy/Ludlum 15-35-year-olds who watch the Bond films and already buy this stuff, but under different brand names.

They fired Benson to do this. Look at Benson now. I'd be feeling very smug if I were in his shoes.

[Loomis]

Bond is a projection fantasy figure for kids, he's the man they wish to become.

Very true, and that's why even a Bond actor in his 50s (Connery in NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, Moore from MOONRAKER onwards) can work. That said, I don't see a major problem if the next Eon 007 is at least, oh, I don't know, 27 or so. That would be okay. Just. Otherwise, Eon might just as well go the whole hog and adapt the Higsons, IMO.

And, spynovelfan, please stop going on about your Double-O agents idea. I only write that because I'm starting to get seriously annoyed that I can't go out and buy these books. I want to read them!

[Qwerty]

Excellent stuff. It's great to see this much effort being put into this series, I hope it all goes off well.

[spynovelfan]

And, spynovelfan, please stop going on about your Double-O agents idea. I only write that because I'm starting to get seriously annoyed that I can't go out and buy these books. I want to read them!

Sorry!

But, yeah, I agree (obviously) with you and Zencat - Bond is an aspirational figure for teenage boys. I suppose it worked with Alex Rider, though - anyone know the age range of the readers of that series? Then again, Bond is a different brand, with a different heritage. It's already kind of tricky to get your head round the idea of a continuation novel - I was utterly mystified by Ian Fleming's James Bond 007 in John Gardner's Icebreaker or whatever it was - and it's even harder if it's set when the character was younger. In real time. Kind of, because Brosnan doesn't look like he was around in the 1930s, let alone 14. Can kids follow all this enough to make the leap and buy the books?

Just because it's set in a public school, IFP, does not mean you have another Harry Potter on your hands.

[David Schofield]

All those copies and still no hardbacks!?

[zencat]

All those copies and still no hardbacks!?

The U.S. edition -- the 150,000 -- is a hardback edition.

No UK hardcover however.

[Loomis]

No UK hardcover however.

Why not? Higson is famous in the UK, whereas in the States he's an unknown (isn't he?).

[zencat]

No UK hardcover however.

Why not? Higson is famous in the UK, whereas in the States he's an unknown (isn't he?).

I know, as a collector, it's a bit heartbreaking. Up until now, ALL the Bond books were released in hardcover in the UK. Even the novelizations. This will be a first. Gonna look nasty on the shelf.

[David Schofield]

No UK hardcover however.

Why not? Higson is famous in the UK, whereas in the States he's an unknown (isn't he?).

I know, as a collector, it's a bit heartbreaking. Up until now, ALL the Bond books were released in hardcover in the UK. Even the novelizations. This will be a first. Gonna look nasty on the shelf.

Yup, seems odd that the USA (PS - I've already ordered my hardback copy via Amazon.com) should get the first hardbacks and the UK, Bond and Fleming's home, cheap paperbacks. Strange.

[Qwerty]

I would have liked to see a UK hardcover as well to keep with tradition, but it is nice to see a US one coming. I'll collect both.

[spynovelfan]

The competition:

The name's Horowitz... Anthony Horowitz... and he's possibly the busiest writer in the UK, if not the world. Anthony juggles being one of the most successful writers of fiction for kids and teenagers, with high-profile writing for TV, the movies and the stage...

Anthony's first novel was ENTER FREDERICK K BOWER, published in 1979 when Anthony was just 23. He has now written 25 books for young people, plus one forthcoming novel for adults. Favourite titles include the DIAMOND BROTHERS TRILOGY (THE FALCON'S MALTESER, SOUTH BY SOUTH EAST and PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER TWO), THE SWITCH and THE DEVIL AND HIS BOY.

It was Anthony's creation, in 2000, of Alex Rider, that really set the world on fire. Alex is a 14-year-old boy, sent around the world as MI6's secret weapon, with gadgets ranging from explosive zit cream to a customised mountain bike. Reluctant superspy Alex made his electric debut in STORMBREAKER and then a triumphant return in POINT BLANC, SKELETON KEY and now EAGLE STRIKE. The books have proved phenomenally popular with readers and reviewers alike. "He is James Bond in Nike trainers, a reinvention of Ian Fleming's icon, younger, cooler and less sexist, and he has caught the imagination of thousands".

The success of the Alex Rider books has been nothing less than phenomenal. In 2000, Walker Books printed 12,500 copies of Alex's debut adventure Stormbreaker. The book has now sold around 250,000. Alex's second and third adventures, POINT BLANC and SKELETON KEY have now sold over 250,000 apiece. In April 2003, Walker Books' first print run of EAGLE STRIKE is an incredible 180,000 copies. By the end of the year, there should be over a million Alex Rider novels in circulation.

Anthony has always been a big fan of the Bond novels and movies but feels that "James Bond died the day Roger Moore turned up in a safari suit". To create the world of Alex Rider, he carries out extensive and often dangerous research. To date, this has ranged from researching SAS techniques to scaling a 150 metre crane. He went underground at the Wimbledon Tennis Championships (under Centre Court to be exact) to research SKELETON KEY, and ended up watching a match from between Pete Sampras's legs!'

Interesting that the print run for his fourth successful novel in the series was an 'incredible' 180,000 - just 30,000 more than for Silverfin. Sounds to melike IFP are putting a hell of a lot of eggs into this basket.

The cover images for Horowitz's book strike me as being a lot darker than Higson's, which is elegant but perhaps not really tapping into what kids are into:

Edited by spynovelfan, 18 January 2005 - 10:39 PM.

[hrabb04]

Wow, that many on first printing? That will make one heck of a pile for the bargain bin when no one buys them.

[Qwerty]

Wow, that many on first printing?  That will make one heck of a pile for the bargain bin when no one buys them.

For all the publicity they will get, I doubt will happen.

[brendan007]

[quote name='Qwerty' date='19 January 2005 - 10:14'][quote name='hrabb04' date='18 January 2005 - 18:18']Wow, that many on first printing?

[Qwerty]

[quote name='brendan007' date='19 January 2005 - 04:54'][quote name='Qwerty' date='19 January 2005 - 10:14'][quote name='hrabb04' date='18 January 2005 - 18:18']Wow, that many on first printing?

[Simon]

I believe so, but what is to say they won't read this one as well? I don't see it as an obvious failure yet at all. There's no guarentee nobody won't want this.

You're right in that more than one book can be successful at the same time and by the same reading public/demographic.

However, what I'm really curious about is at what point can one see something as an obvious failure, presuming in this case to be sometime before the results are in?

And is your statement of guarantees saying there's no guarantee anybody will want it, or nobody will want it, or anybody won't want it, or that there is a guarantee that no nobody wants nothing to do with it?

[Loomis]

I believe so, but what is to say they won't read this one as well? I don't see it as an obvious failure yet at all. There's no guarentee nobody won't want this.

You're right in that more than one book can be successful at the same time and by the same reading public/demographic.

However, what I'm really curious about is at what point can one see something as an obvious failure, presuming in this case to be sometime before the results are in?

And is your statement of guarantees saying there's no guarantee anybody will want it, or nobody will want it, or anybody won't want it, or that there is a guarantee that no nobody wants nothing to do with it?

If "nobody won't want this", it means that everybody will want "Silverfin" (or "SilverFin", as it may be), but, as Qwerty points out, there's no guarantee of that, which means that it may be the case that either:

- Nobody will want it;

or:

- Some will want it and some won't.

I think.

Anyway, re: your question, "at what point can one see something as an obvious failure, presuming in this case to be sometime before the results are in?", I feel that - profound insight into humanity coming up - people see what they want to see. In other words, those who are interested in buying this book tend to state that it may be a success, while those who have no time for the idea of a series of books about the schoolboy 007 tend to dismiss it as a likely commerical failure. Funny, that.

[Jim]

There's no guarentee nobody won't want this.

My head hurts. Triple negatives...um...

There's no guarantee everyone will reject it
There's no guarantee nobody will reject it

Still...

Oh, I dunno.

[spynovelfan]

There's no guarantee that nobody won't not want to not reject it, either. Isn't there not?

[Jim]

I just don't no anymore.

[Simon]

Well on the premise that a double negative is a positive, does a triple negative in turn give us a negative. I'm sure Qwerty had no idea what he was actually writing but as self imposed translator of the untranslateable, I feel we may actually have a statement from him which is indeed a decision, ie, negative.

So Qwerts has finally fallen off the fence, although one must question as to whether this was more by design or default. I feel the latter but a decision, whichever way it comes, is to be congratulated.

Don't you not think?

[Loomis]

I feel we may actually have a statement from him which is indeed a decision, ie, negative.

Hmmm.... I submit that it would seem deeply uncharacteristic of Qwerty to opine that "Nobody will want it" (or that "Everybody will want it"), especially at this particular juncture in time, when the reading public's verdict on Mr Higson's tome is, as you yourself remind us, Simon, merely a matter of idle conjecture. I contend that the message Qwerty intends to convey is: "Some will want it and some won't."

[Qwerty]

What I was saying as I got caught up with double negatives and that sort: In response to brendan007's post, how can one judge so early if the series will fail when, as you say Simon, the results are not in yet?

There is no guarentee of how well the series will do right now, it's too early to make a accurate choice. I'm not saying some will and some won't Loomis, but that it is too early to tell where the preference of the majority on this book/series will lie.

[hrabb04]

Basically, with this series, we're getting something no one really asked for. It's like getting a new Police Academy movie or Look Who's Talking 4.

[Mister Asterix]

Basically, with this series, we're getting something no one really asked for.  It's like getting a new Police Academy movie or Look Who's Talking 4.

[mra]Okay, but who asked for Fleming

[Simon]

There is no guarentee of how well the series will do right now, it's too early to make a accurate choice. I'm not saying some will and some won't Loomis, but that it is too early to tell where the preference of the majority on this book/series will lie.

Ever thought of going into politics or sports commentating?

[hrabb04]

Also, just for the record, Loomis did not have sexual relations with that woman!