40 replies to this topic

[Lotman]

Hi,

is there anyone here who knows more about a possible rejected score for Goldeneye, whether it exists or not? I have 13 tracks on my computer with the label Goldeneye rejected, composed by Mark (or Michael?) Lewis.
Thanks for the info!

Greetz

[Tanger]

I've never heard of this. Where did you get these tracks? Also what do the sound like?!

[M_Balje]

There is no composer with the name Mark Lewis.

There is an composer with the name Michael J. Lewis
But his last movie he have composed is from 1994,Deadly Target: Fire Zone.

[gkgyver]

There is indeed a rejected score for GE!
I tried to download it on Soulseek, but it takes very long.
level007 has got it, I think.

But if you hope for the Bond Theme: there are only hints of it in the score. So they basically dropped someone who didn't use the Bond Theme for someone who didn't WANT to use it :eek:

[Tanger]

I need to get a listen of this. Has Level007 posted the tracks on his site or is he planning to?

[Kingdom Come]

Interesting bit of news indeed. Like Serra, this Lewis character thought that the Bond theme had been used to death. When I hear it throughout Arnold's scores, I sink in my seat. Haven't the Bond films grown up enough to not ALWAYS lean on that bloody OVERUSED theme?

[Triton]

Lotman is the score entertaining to listen to? Can you please comment about its strengths and weaknesses?

[Dunph]

Ah yes, the rejected score by Michael Lewis. A great addition to a collection simply because it is so unique.

It utilises a very small orchestra; sounding almost like a score for a low budget film, but the themes are not varied. The score relies on a group of strings to drive through the bassline and what sounds like a clarinet or oboe plays an indistinguishable theme in most of the cues. There are hints of electronics in the score as well as twangy guitars, but nothing as extensive as Arnold, Serra or even Barry have used.

The cues are all short, topping around 2 minutes maximum. There are sections of the Bond theme present in some cues, though mostly hidden or convoluted. I fully intend to get the score up on the net as soon as I can so you can all have a very good listen, but it is hard to download.

[Lotman]

As Dunphboy said, it doesn't sound like a score for a professional high budget film. I don't really listen to it often, actually, and I had my doubts about whether it was real or not. Thank you for the info!
I could always mail a cue to someone if interested, to hear what it's like. (And I got it from Level007 on Soulseek.)

Greetz everyone!

[CraigLogan]

What is the address for soulseek?

[Dunph]

www.slsk.org is the address you're after Craig

One thing I forgot to mention is that randomly towards the middle of the score, the score changes pace, the driving strings (which had been a constant theme throughout the first few cues) stop, and Lewis goes for a strangely 60s parody theme more fitting in an Austin Powers film, though (I think it's track 9) where you hear slight bits of the Bond riff played on a mute trumpet. I also swear that Lewis pays homage to the Moon Buggy chase in Diamonds Are Forever in one or two cues.

I think this was merely meant as a showcase for Lewis' range of styles. Though the 60s parody style is laughable if toe-tapping, the score suggests to me that he thought when Bond would return, he would be a shadow of his former self. But the score is definitely not a fake.

[Turn]

I'm curious how bad a score has to be for it to be jettisoned in favor of Eric Serra music?

[Rich Douglas]

I contacted Michael Lewis about getting a copy of this score about a year ago. As it turns out, HE DIDNT ACTUALLY DO THIS oddball of a score, in fact, it isnt even really a rejected goldeneye score. Mr. Lewis hasn't even heard the score but said that he wanted to lol. I've heard lots of theories on this particular 15 or 20 mins of music. One of which is that it was actually recorded by some fanboys in the 60's or 70's (hence the "groovy" 60's motif ). I havent actually heard but one cues from this "rejected" score and would REALLY like to do so... would someone please be kind enough to e-mail me the cues?

Rich

[Dunph]

So bang goes my theory of it not being a fake then....

[Lotman]

This score is indeed a strange bird. It's definitely Bond (although I wasn't sure first) - it has the Bond motif played once or twice in the bass line. It mixes various elements. The small orchestra has a strange feeling, as if it's some sort of demo for a particular movie that got rejected. The cues are very varied: it's a mixture of Dr No (the soundtrack), Austin Powers, 60s style, 80s style (like in some episodes of MacGyver or so).

Anyway, in the meantime, thanks for the feedback!

[Rich Douglas]

Lotman just sent me a track, judging by the amount of reverb it almost sounds like this may have been done by a synth and/or a sampler. It may be completely digital, some of the strings (in track 12 anyway) are most definately digital. It does have a Mcguyver feel to it. I just wish we could figure out what this was really for... why didnt the real composer use more fo the bond theme rather than just hints? Who started the rumor about Lewis and Goldeneye? Questions we may never know the answer to. If anything, this is the rejected score for Goldeneye 64 and not the film, who knows.

Rich

[Dunph]

Track 12 is the most synthesised of the lot, it's also the only synthesised. It's strange the way it suddenly breaks into that The Living Daylights-style cue, which is a departure from what went before. Track 10 is also synthesised.

The rest of the score is definitely real, live orchestra, especially the earlier tracks that incorporate the urgent bass and the swing style heard in Track 9.

I've done a bit of research and it's even noted by Lewis' fans that he submitted a score for GoldenEye that was rejected, so I don't think we can discount it entirely.

[Rich Douglas]

true... but sometimes even fanboys will make mistakes, know I have. Why would Lewis tell me that he had nothing to do with it? lol... maybe he's ashamed of it for some reason. Although, we all know that rumors can definately escalate, remember the mess about DAD and Barry colaborating with madonna? There were tons of madonna fans that wanted to believe that the collaboration really existed. I still think Lewis didnt do it, and I still believe without a doubt that it wasnt for Goldeneye. I really want to know what it was for.

Rich

[Tanger]

Yet another thing to add to the Library of Bond Urban Legends.

[Lotman]

Originally, the mp3s had 'Mark Lewis' tagged as composer. I know he 'doesn't exist', but maybe he's a unknown composer hired to do Goldeneye or Goldeneye 64, but he got rejected? Probably not. Just a thought.
Greetings!

[Rich Douglas]

After Ive heard the tracks that Lotman has so generously provided... I can safely say that this score was recorded in the 70's or 80's.. DEFIANTELY NOT the 90's. There's no way this score was for Goldeneye, impossible. Actually, it sounds alot like Brian Mays' work (and very well may be!), listen to some of his work from Mad Max or The Road Warrior and you'll know exactly what I mean. It also has a hint of Jerry Goldsmith's Coma score, the trend Im seeing is that it sounds like alot of music did back in the late 70's and early 80's, and nothing like music from the 90's. I definately wouldnt totally rule it out as a rejected Bond score though, but its definately not meant for goldeneye. Wonder if Brian May ever sent anything in for a bond film, b/c this sounds so much like his work.

Rich

[Lotman]

I'm pretty sure it was made for some sort of Bond thing - you can hear it subtly in the bass line (cf above) - otherwise it's just a rip off. Which is possible. I don't think it was made in the 70s, and I believe Rich may be right about not being made in the 90s. And since it does sound like a lot of those series in the 80s... So what Bond movies were made in the 80s... I don't think we're going to get there this way.
Anyway, thanks everybody for the feedback up till now!

[Dunph]

Rich, I'm puzzled as to how you can be sure it was definitely not made for the 90s. We know nothing about it, how don't we know Lewis submitted it to producers as a taster of where he wanted to take the series' music? I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one of these rejected samplers, simply because composers would have been flocking to Bond, plus Eon wanted a departure from the Bond sound for Bond 17.

It is definitely a Bond score, both the bass line and the guitar riff are present, plus some sections of earlier Bond cues in a sort of homage (so far I think I count FRWL, DAF and Octopussy)

[Rich Douglas]

Oh it's definately Bond music man, i have no doubt about that. The electronics used are definately moogs and such, which are circa mid to late 70's and early 80's (as heard in track 1). Also, the synthy track 12 uses VERY synthesized samples man, this was 93 maybe 94, better orchestral samples were available and used, why use samples from the 80's? As far as knowing if it was Lewis who did it, it's not, as I said Ive asked the man directly and he said it wasnt his and he has never even heard it, although he finds the whole thing humorous. It very well could be some one elses rejected goldeneye score.. but I really doubt it, if it was, I can see exactly why it was rejected, simply wouldnt fit. Ive got two theories about the music, and niether of them involve lewis, it's simply not his. Do yourselves a favor and listen to Brian May's Mad Max work, and you'll better understand my first theory as far as low budget is concerned. I do admit, i could be wrong as this score could be from the 90's, here's why:

Rich's Goldeneye Rejected score theory 1:

This was for goldeneye and was recorded by someone with very little money to finance a big orchestra, like someone fresh out of film / music school. I can back this up b/c there is only one mic position, you can hear where the instruments are supposed to be in the concert hall, this was recorded from the conductors perspective. Low budget recordings have one mic setup like this, as did alot of low budget scores from the 70's and 80's. The orchestra is obviously very small and could damn well be a university orchestra as the accoustics arent that great. Just get on the net and listen to any music school students' thesis done by a section of the school's orchestra (however big he could afford), youll know what I mean. This could be someone's thesis folks and not rejected goldeneye score at all. That leads me to my second theory

Rich's Goldeneye Rejected score theory 2:

This was done by a fanboy like you or I dunph. Admit it man, lol, if we could get a live orchestra for our music we would. I know for a fact you can get an orchestra this size for about $500 to $1000 per day if you have an in at say a university. A friend of mine recorded a score for a film I worked on at Baylor University for a minimal amount of $500 to record, master, and drop to cd 20 mins of music. I do this very same thing, heck, Im doing it now for BSLTW. If i really wanted to, i could start spreading rumors that it is a rejected score from TWINE done by myself or any other composer, and I bet that some people might actually buy into it. This could be someone's thesis as sometimes you can pick a film to rescore as your final grade. Maybe a student picked a previous bond film and rescored it and was given instructions to use the bond theme only sparsely. It could be someone (anyone, not just a student) who's into music and had some cash (or is a conductor for an orchestra) and wanted to record his very own bond score, much like I do with electronics.

To be honest, you've got a point dunph, Im sure many demos were sent to MGM when word got out they were looking for composers. This is definately some unknown composers work who after it was rejected possibly attatched Lewis' name to it to get attention and a laugh. I dunno anymore if it was or wasnt for goldeneye. But as far as I can tell it really sounds like it was recorded in the 80's at the very least, the evidence is there. Lol, maybe it was recorded in the 80's by said fanboy and then submitted (and rejected) for goldeneye. Who knows. Just some ideas for you all to chew on for a bit. We do know one thing for sure, it's Bond music. For what.. who knows.... when it was recorded... who knows. Maybe one day this enigma will be solved. Until then, we've all got entertaining theories lol.

Rich

[Lotman]

So here we are, SEVEN years later (sheesh!), and I found these files sitting in one of my folders, and I was wondering if this was ever cleared up?

[The Cat]

I've cleared this up at least a dozen times already. Most recently here:

http://blofeldscat.l...com/143565.html

[Wade]

Re: John Barry -- As an older and longtime fan of the films, I ache for one of the future films to have a Barry score. Just one more. If it had been CR, my life would've been full and complete then. Barry's music WAS Bond music for me. The one cue I remember most vividly was Connery "mountaineering about outside the Whyte House" in DAF. When he cut loose one cable and went swinging off into the nighttime sky over Vegas, the strings mounted to a high, precarious note. Very haunting, very atmospheric. That's what I miss. Barry's music set an ethereal, melancholy tone that gave a whole other shade of meaning to the plots. Arnold, though he means well, writes fairly forgettable stuff. Barry's stuff you remember.

[Lotman]

I've cleared this up at least a dozen times already. Most recently here:

http://blofeldscat.l...com/143565.html

Michael J. Lewis' GoldenEye: A bootleg that's fooled many people so far, this compilation of 13 tracks actually has some Michael J. Lewis pieces in the final four tracks, but they are an unspecified showreel made much earlier. The other nine tracks come from 1970s library music compilations, primarily by composer John Cacavas and other composers you may have never heard of. Sometimes this CD is attributed to Bill Conti, because collectors shell out more money for fake music written by a better known composer. But needless to say, nobody wrote replaced music for GoldenEye (apart from Eric Serra, of course...)

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. How come there's fragments of the Bond theme though underneath the tracks then? Or do you mean 'showreel' for James Bond products?

[The Cat]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. How come there's fragments of the Bond theme though underneath the tracks then? Or do you mean 'showreel' for James Bond products?

There is exactly one single quotation of the James Bond Theme in one of the tracks. The four tracks at the end are part of a general showreel (hence it has action, romance, Carribbean stuff). The theme appears at only one point in the action section. If you notice, the exact same recording is present twice - one with the brief Bond theme quote, once without. This is fairly common thing for these showreels or other material planned for in-house usage, nothing strange about that.

Edited by The Cat, 14 October 2010 - 11:06 AM.

[hawke]

Thanks to Lotman I was able to listen to these 13 so called GoldenEye Rejected tracks...
I agree that only the 3 last tracks really stand out and seem to be the only genuine ones (if any)

However, I am really suprised no one here mentioned that the cues used in track 11 and 12,
are the exact same cues as used in the GoldenEye game for N64 by Rare(Ware);

I instantly recognized the music of the Depot level in the aforementioned game:
Depot Level Goldeneye 64

The cues start at 0:50

Still can't believe nobody noticed or mentioned that...

I remember that the GoldenEye game took three whole years to develop (got released in 1997, two years after the movie itself) and its publisher "Rare" (now Rareware) spared no money nor effort to make sure every detail in the game corresponded to the movie.

It was stated that Rare was provided with the blueprints and exact data of the scenery, locations and settings in the movie;
So it would come as no suprise to me that they were able to strive the same kind of authenticity music wise.

The music beats used in the game (f.e. the facility level) are very Eric Serra like
and it doesn't strike me as a coincidence Rare also used some of these rejected tracks as a part of their score for the GoldenEye game...

Furthermore it wouldn't make any sense that "Rare" itself would be the composer of these rejected tracks.
Why would you hire an orchestra back in these days to record music for a N64 game, as we all know that it needs to be ported to a N64-bit cartridge on which everything sounds lke a medieval midi ?

As Rare was licensed by MGM/UA and EON to use everything at its disposal for the development of the Bond game,
I feel these tracks were in fact sent to MGM/UA back then by someone and got indeed... rejected.

If it was just fan made, and not a composer seriously considered by MGM, I doubt Rare would have 1) got a hold on the music 2) used it in their game

Perhaps the 10 first tracks were recorded back in the 70 or 80's just as Rich suggested,
but the last 3 tracks definitely originate somewhere around 1994 - 1997

At least someone at Rareware must know where these tracks come from !

Edited by hawke, 03 March 2011 - 04:04 PM.