31 replies to this topic

[RITZ]

I reckon Roger should have retired in '81. AVTAK was poo - Roger was 57 and had orange tan! It looked as though Moore had a facelift too(!) I don't hate Moore, he's done some excellent Bond films. I still have a soft spot for him.

What do you think about Roger in AVTAK?

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

ray t (24 Mar, 2002 08:18 p.m.):

I DONT think that it being a "remake"/rehash of GOLDFINGER takes away from the film ....if you use that line of reasoning then logic would dictate that The Spy Who Loved Me is garbage because its  "remake"/rehash of You Only Live Twice.

in my opinion TSWLM is in the top 5 and a lot better than YOLT.

True, I should have said POORLY regurgitated Goldfinger scenes. Really there are only so many mad men taking over the world scenarios that basically it's all a variation on a theme. Goldfinger does it superbly, AVTAK does not.

And I agree TSWLM is a far better film (around my top 6-8) than YOLT because it utilizes many of the shared elements in a superior manner.

MBE

[Black Goldfinger]

Roger was the BEST!! He could have done two more!!! I saw him on that girl spy show (She's hot) and Rog was still smooth!

[Xenobia]

Don't hold MBE! Tell me how you really feel about Ms. Goodnight. Mary had a spine, but she also had a mission...get with James. By the end of TMWAGG, mission was accomplished! *thumbs up*

I didn't think Goodhead was wooden. Sure, she could have done a lot more with the role...but it was Moonraker for God's sakes...not much could have saved that sinking space ship!

As for the battle between FYEO and TSWLM, I saw "Spy" many years ago, so I really can't speak to that movie, although I must say that FYEO is the strongest of the Moore canon because he did have the strongest actresses in it, and in Julian Glover and Topol, the best supporting actors they had ever had until that point.

When people tell me about Mysogyny in Bond movies, I do have to concede that Moore's performance in "TMWAGG" certainly fits into that category...when he is with Maud Adams.

I don't think anything is as bad as Denise Richards. I'm sorry...I found her portrayal of Christmas Jones a personal insult. I am also no great fan of the character of Natayla Simonova, although Isabella Scurpuro (sp) is a great actress. In contrast, Paris Carver had the potential to be a great character, had she not been played with insipid stupidity by Teri Hatcher.

My great regret for the Bond canon is through his first three films, Pierce has been cursed with one good "girl" and one bad "girl."

-- Xen

[Dr. Tynan]

Look, I'm probably wrong, but it seems like there's a lot of personal hatred between MBE and Xenobia.

Sorry, if this wrong.

[Xenobia]

Dr. Tynan (25 Mar, 2002 09:08 p.m.):
Look, I'm probably wrong, but it seems like there's a lot of personal hatred between MBE and Xenobia.

Sorry, if this wrong.

You are wrong...but it is OK. MBE and I are actually...not friends...but good acquaintances. We travel in similar circles, and I have great respect for her mind and her abilities.

-- Xenobia

[RossMan]

Maybe it's because A View to a Kill was the first of Moore's movies that I saw but I like it. I thought Zorin was an excellent villain, I loved Bond's investigation of Zorin for the first half of the film, loved the title song, loved the action scenes, especially Bond and Zorin's fight on the Golden Gate bridge. I think it's better than Live and Let Die or The Man with the Golden Gun. What I did hate: Tany Roberts' screeching voice crying out and screaming everytime something happens. Bond should of just let Zorin get away with her in the blimp.

I wouldn't have minded seeing Dalton start his Bond career a movie early with this though.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Xenobia (25 Mar, 2002 11:13 p.m.):

Dr. Tynan (25 Mar, 2002 09:08 p.m.):
Look, I'm probably wrong, but it seems like there's a lot of personal hatred between MBE and Xenobia.

Sorry, if this wrong.

You are wrong...but it is OK. MBE and I are actually...not friends...but good acquaintances. We travel in similar circles, and I have great respect for her mind and her abilities.

-- Xenobia

Yep, you're wrong, we get along fine and outside the CBN world at that, and I enjoy and respect her quite a lot. We're just engaging in friendly debate; tossing opinions back and forth and disagreeing can be FUN! You can disagree with someone and still respect and like them. But we actually agree on more things than we disagree on. ;-)

MBE

[Dr. Tynan]

Mourning Becomes Electra (25 Mar, 2002 11:48 p.m.): (Edited) Yep, you're wrong, we get along fine and outside the CBN world at that.....

If neither of you mind me asking, do you two just know eachother outside of this site or the entire net?

Neither of you is obliged to respond if you don't want to. I'm just curious.

[mrmoon]

Roger was and still is the coolest man alive (how many times have I said that, I should keep a tally chart). I love AVTAK, The score for me pushes to be Barry's best I love the approach to the Golden Gate bridge. It;s actually my mates fav film and used to be my sisters until she saw FYEO. I think its one of those bond's that you either love or hate, a little like FRWL.

[Xenobia]

I used to sing this little chant as a preteen and teenager:

Roger Moore
Is the Man
At least until
Pierce Brosnan can!

Go Roger! Go Pierce!

-- Xen

[Tanger]

RITZ (24 Mar, 2002 01:03 a.m.):
What do you think about Roger in AVTAK?

Don't even get me started.

Actually it used to be my favourite, till I discovered the joy that is OHMSS.

[RITZ]

Yes, its beautiful!! Wonderful score, good story, Lazenby's quite cool in that film.

[Xenobia]

As president of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Mr. Moore, I felt I should just step in for a second and say that even though AVTAK did have a couple of bad moments, Moore did keep "the English end up" so to speak. He never truly let down the role. He simply portrayed Bond as an aging man...which is how he was portrayed in the 007 Bio that was released in the Seventies.

Physically the stunts got less realistic as Moore did less and less of the work...but, Moore's portrayal got more serious and deeper as he got older...look at the job he did in "For Your Eyes Only."

Bond got older with Moore, and maybe some fans didn't like to see their hero age -- and that's OK. For me, I thought it was very realistic to see Bond get older, and start to face his own mortality.

-- Xen

[RITZ]

Good point, Xen. I liked Roger too but as you said, AVTAK does still have some good bits (Eiffel tower chase/ski chase etc).

PS: John Glen admitted in a recent documentary that Roger Moore was still good for another 2 Bond movies.

Nice to talk to you Xen, see you around.

[ray t]

i think roger looked better in AVTAK than in certain parts of FYEO or Octopussy.

I think he did a fine job in AVTAK. what really took away from what could have been a damn good Bond movie was:

1...the beach boys music which ruined a fantastic ski scene

2...the lead female character was weak which was compouned by an uninspired acting job by t. roberts

and

3...some really over-the-top/silly/too-comedic car chase scenes both in paris and the one with the fire engine in san fran which kinda screwed credability given a relatively older bond character.

[Mister Asterix]

It's not Rog's age or Rog himself that bothered me in A View to a Kill, it was the film. Zorin was a week villain, MayDay was not believable, Stacey Sutton was awful, and the plot was much better the first time I saw it when it was called Goldfinger.

[Xenobia]

Mister Asterix (24 Mar, 2002 02:24 a.m.):
It's not Rog's age or Rog himself that bothered me in A View to a Kill, it was the film. Zorin was a week villain, MayDay was not believable, Stacey Sutton was awful, and the plot was much better the first time I saw it when it was called Goldfinger.

Amen to all of the above.

I personally consider the Beach Boys song the highlight of the James Bond experience. LOL! If any man has a right to sing that song, it is Bond!

But you are right...it does take away fromt he scene it is in. I can also do without the Quiche...but that is for another post.

-- Xen

[Turn]

A couple of bad moments, Xenobia?

Just kidding.

A View To a Kill is at or near the bottom of most fans' lists. Ray T and Mr. Asterix pretty much spelled out the most glaring problems. What a letdown this was to see in the theater (although I went back two more times). Can I also add, the Chinese actor who played the CIA agent to the list of negatives. This guy couldn't act and the character was pathetic and served almost no purpose in the story. Why oh why didn't they use Felix? The Grace Jones character was a big selling point in this film, but what a dissapointment she was. I dig Walken, though. Love that laugh.

As for Moore, I thought he looked good, although his hair never moves. I thought it was kind of funny when he gets into the sub looking like he just stepped out of the makeup chair near the end of the precredit sequence.

[Xenobia]

Just as long as Roger is not solely blamed for AVTAK's failures....I can live with that.



-- Xen

[JAWS]

I still remember the first time I watched AVTAK. I loved it, and still do. Roger Moore Is fantasic as always. Strange as this may sound, AVTAK is the Moore film that reiminds me most of the Connery films; not because of moents that resemble Goldfinger, but because of the lack of action, more spying and a dumber (I mean nothing mean, but couldn't think of a polite word at the moment. I'm tired.) leading lady. I even like the California Girls bit!
I do think that it was time for Roger to retire though. He was due. I just don't understand what so many fans have against him. In most of his scenes, he is fairly serious, and not the buffoon some critics seem to imply he was.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Err... didn't Roger already have the dumbest female in Bond films. I mean Mary Goodnight gave bimbos a bad name! Really, Sutton may have had her ditzy written moments (hello, it's a blimp behind you!) but it's more the way she was acted that screamed bimbo and not the way she was written. Those vacant stares, those hideous screechings, that monotone vapid delivery. Brrrrrrr......
OTOH, Britt Eckland played Mary Goodnight rather well but the character was ditz and a bimbo, and probably the most pathetic female in all of Bond. (I can't believe she still wanted him after he stuffed her in the closet to have sex with another woman... ughhhh... a little self respect, especially since he treats her with nothing but contempt even before that!)

Oh and he also had Rosie in LALD, a dumbo if there ever was one. Thoroughly incompetent, and annoying.

I don't think any of the Connery films had women of their uh equal. OK, maybe Plenty O'Toole could give them a run for thier money but she wasn't even a fling. Tiffany became incomptetent as the film wore on but she was rather clever to begin with, and well just never sunk to the level of Goodnight, Stacy or Rosie.

As for AVTAK, well I loved the look of a lot of the film, the grandeur of the scenes at Zorin's estate and the views of The Eiffel Tower and Goldengate bridge. Visually it had a nice sweep.

But all that was underminded by horrid female co-stars, lame humor... from the Beach Boys that killed any tension in that scene to the idiocy of James Bond declaring who he is the the policeman as if he was a movie star and not a spy! Too much wink wink nudge nudge... Puhlease.

And yes I think Roger's age hurt in many of the obviously doubled action and heck sometimes just moving sequences. That fight with him and Patrick McNee had to be the slowest most laborious fight in the history of Bond. His lack of mobility hurt his believability to me. Then again that wasn't new to AVTAK but I think it showed more in this film than any other. To say that Moore was playing the agent as older in these cases isn't really accurate, he still behaved and acted as if he was a physically fit James Bond capable of subduing his enemies physically, but which failed to actually wasn't translate to the screen

If they had given him more a script like FYEO or something that actually addressed his aging, and relied more on his mind and less on his brawn it would have served RM and the film much better.

That miscalculation in how RM was actually used coupled with the casting miscues & regurgitated Goldfinger scenarios make AVTAK a real chore to watch.

Oh and why repeat the one scene from Goldfinger that NEVER makes any sense, the killing of one rebellious cohort in an elaborate way before killing all the rest anyway! Why?

MBE

[PaulZ108]

I'm pretty much in agreement with MBE and Mr*.

I also attribute Goodnight's stupidity to the script. I think Eckland played the character very well and that there wasn't much more she could do to save it.

[freemo]

Oh and why repeat the one scene from Goldfinger that NEVER makes any sense, the killing of one rebellious cohort in an elaborate way before killing all the rest anyway! Why?

So that Goldfinger could say "Excuse me, I have to seperate my gold from Mr Solo".

[Xenobia]

This is what you get when you go to sleep!

Going back to the Moore's luck with Bond girls, for every Rosie Carver he had (and how was this woman smart enough to bein the CIA let alone a double agent?), he had a Melina, a Holly Goodhead, an Anya, a Countess Lisel, an Octopussy...the list goes on and on. It works out to him having one definate stand out in almost every film. (Can Sean, Tim and Pierce say that?)

As for Miss Goodnight....true, she was a ditz...but she did have some self-respect. She didn't sleep with him that night, only after he saved her. And besides.... TMWAGG with my favorite ending:

M: Goodnight? Miss Goodnight?

Bond: She's just coming sir.

M: Goodnight? Goodnight!

Bond: Goodnight sir.

-- Xen

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Xen, please, not only was the woman was a jellyfish, a piece of spineless goo, the wind found a convenenient tunnel through her ears. Locked in a closet, shoved in the boot of a car, she's pathetic. And who cares if Bond saved her at the end, he was an unpleasant contemptuous cold creep to her through the entire movie.

As for the rest of Moore's women, well I'm actually rather indifferent to most. As a child I used to think XXX was so cool until I realized the great stone face couldn't act to save her life, yeah she was lovely, yeah she was given one heck of a role, but as an actress Bach was a dud. Lois Chiles as Goodhead was even more wooden. Seymour was sweet and lovely and OK but really amore girl than woman and her character too easily manipulated. (the scene with stacked deck still sticks in my craw....blech)

As for Maude Adams, I think her more interesting role was as Andrea Anders in TMWTGG but she was wasted on a Moore Bond who held pretty much all women in cold contempt. (he's so mysoginistic in this film it's actually creepy and unpleasant to watch). Her Octopussy wasn't as vivid even with the nickname, I actually think Kristina Wayborn was more interesting and fun.

I actually think Connery and Brosnan have had overall better women than Moore. Even the Brosnan lowpoint X-Mas Jones who I can't stand may have been played poorly but she didn't screech & simper like Sutton and nor was she written to be the mindless bimbo as Mary Goodnight was. And as I said the Connery low point Plenty O'Toole was a minor character and she still didn't approach the level of nincompoopness that several of Moore's leads did. Heck, Lois Maxwell referred to Moore's women as "dummies", and she was right!

MBE

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

freemo (24 Mar, 2002 06:34 a.m.):

Oh and why repeat the one scene from Goldfinger that NEVER makes any sense, the killing of one rebellious cohort in an elaborate way before killing all the rest anyway! Why?

So that Goldfinger could say "Excuse me, I have to seperate my gold from Mr Solo".

LOL, true!!! That line is almost worth it, but what pray tell is the excuse for AVTAK? (just that scene, I wouldn't expect any single person to explain or excuse AVTAK ;-))

MBE

[ray t]

i stand by what i said earlier re the beach boys sound que, the weak-written and weakly-acted sutton role, and the too-comedic/credability-destroying road chase sequences in both paris and the fire-engine/stupid cop bit in San fran

I DONT think that it being a "remake"/rehash of GOLDFINGER takes away from the film ....if you use that line of reasoning then logic would dictate that The Spy Who Loved Me is garbage because its a "remake"/rehash of You Only Live Twice.

in my opinion TSWLM is in the top 5 and a lot better than YOLT.

BTW, Rog looked older in FYEO (an overrated bond movie by most fans, and in my opinion in the bottom 5 of the 19)

[4 Ur Eyez Only]

I just love the AVTAK documentry dvd.. when they show us that little ending in which Roger retires and everyone tells their feelings for him also those Clips.. it just pumps me up!!!:cool:

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by RITZ
Good point, Xen. I liked Roger too but as you said, AVTAK does still have some good bits (Eiffel tower chase/ski chase etc).

PS: John Glen admitted in a recent documentary that Roger Moore was still good for another 2 Bond movies.  

Nice to talk to you Xen, see you around.

oh how i wish he had done TLD and LTK