22 replies to this topic

[SamuelKevlar]

In the last shot of LTK, the stone fish at the swimming pool winks at the camera. One word: why?

[brendan007]

because ltk is a stupid movie

(yes i know thats a very immature statement, but i think it sums it up nicely)

[Double-0 Six]

I think it was a feature of the actual swimming pool they used (a coverable lighting source), I vaguely recall hearing that the producers saw it operate and then decided to incorporate it into the film.

No idea where I read that, though, so I could be wrong. It's a bit silly, really.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by SamuelKevlar
In the last shot of LTK, the stone fish at the swimming pool winks at the camera. One word: why?

In a word: dunno.

It's very silly, and more befitting a Moore Bond movie than the more serious Dalton Bond movie. One of bad decisions made by John Glen that ultimately got him retired from the franchise, I guess

[zencat]

Originally posted by Double-0 Six
I think it was a feature of the actual swimming pool they used (a coverable lighting source), I vaguely recall hearing that the producers saw it operate and then decided to incorporate it into the film.

No idea where I read that, though, so I could be wrong. It's a bit silly, really.

Yep, this is what I heard/read as well. A completely wrong-headed way to end such a tough and serious Bond film IMO.

[Daltonitus]

It always amuses me, but it's a totaly stupid thing to do, especially at the end of a film like LTK.

[Righty007]

I love LTK and I think the winking fish ended the movie nicely.

[ChandlerBing]

Actually this was not the original ending. Originally, Timothy Dalton was going to appear on screen and say, "I'm sorry, guys, this Bond gig is too bloody hard. Only a handful of them out there seem to like me, and that's not good. I'm getting out before I make things worse."
Feeling sorry for Dalton, they canned the original ending at the last minute and out of desperation someone happened to grab a shot of the fish. Unfortunately, out of pride, no one wanted to go up to Brosnan and tell him, we should have waited for you back in 86. We were wrong. We were sorry. It would take them a few years to own up to it. Now you know the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey says.

[Jriv71]

Wow, I hadn't heard that.

[doublenoughtspy]

Chandlerbing, did Timothy Dalton rape a family member or something? No matter what the topic - from OHMSS to Roger Moore to anything else - you somehow always find time to diss Dalton.

You yourself have said you liked Daylights when you first saw it.

So what's the problem? How did you go from liking it to hating Dalton with a passion?

OK - you like Brosnan more than Dalton. Fine.

You go out of your way to point out the low box office of Dalton's films, and use that as part of your argument that they suck.

Well gee, by that flawed logic American Pie 2 is miles above Citizen Kane in the film world then.

Also - I would hardly call millions of theatre goers a handful.

Dalton brought Fleming back to Bond. Not everyone wanted to see that or cared. But to a Fleming fan like me, it meant a lot.

LTK, just like OHMSS, was an experiment with the formula that failed at the box office - but has a devoted fan base.

I'd like to know a few things - 1) who would you have cast instead?

2) Do you blame Dalton for the writing and casting of Daylights weak women and villains - because both were done with Brosnan in mind, not Dalton

3) Do you blame Dalton for the weak women casting (again), horrible marketing, and tough competition LTK had when it was released?

Oh and if you want to know the real reason for the Fish Wink at the end - it was a glowing tribute to Connery's wink at the end of NSNA.

[Jriv71]

Well said. He WAS Fleming's Bond. If that's not what you wanted, sorry. But, even now, I'm re-reading Gardner, and I'm seeing Dalton.

I actually think the dissing Dalton thing is kinda funny though, because whenever I get the chance, I rip Connery in DAF. But, otherwise, I love Connery, I just wish DAF were done differently. That's it. It does seem like Chandler has something very personal against Dalton, with some weak arguments about box-office, etc., ignoring the type of cult following that his 2 films have.

(I always thought Citizen Kane was grossly overrated, by the way.)

[TonicBH]

2) Do you blame Dalton for the writing and casting of Daylights weak women and villains - because both were done with Brosnan in mind, not Dalton

I thought it was written originally for Moore (if he was to return), THEN Brosnan, THEN Dalton?

Nonetheless... My answer to the question of the original topic:

In the last shot of LTK, the stone fish at the swimming pool winks at the camera. One word: why?

Why? Who knows. I haven't even noticed this myself.

[ChandlerBing]

What do you have to say about the people who make comments about wanting Pierce Brosnan dead? Or who go after Sean Connery for looking like a beached whale in Diamonds Are Forever? I am hardly the only one on this board who make their feelings so known about an actor who has played Bond in the past. I believe that if you compare my feelings about Mr. Dalton to the other comments other people make about Connery, Moore, and Brosnan, mine are relatively tame.

It is true I liked The Living Daylights back then. As one gets older, however, feelings change. I would rather they had just been willing to work with the producers of Remington Steele and let Pierce find a way to do Bond in 86. It's what the people wanted. Unfortunately, Cubby absolutely refused to work with the producers of the show even after they offered to film the episodes in Europe to accomodate filming.

Like it or not, box office and attendance figures are the most important things for a movie. Movies are a matter of commerce. Money is invested. If the investors don't see returns, the movie itself is regarded in a negative way. Dalton's movies are among the lowest grossing movies in the series. You can't hide that fact no matter how much you want to spin it.

2) Do you blame Dalton for the writing and casting of Daylights weak women and villains - because both were done with Brosnan in mind, not Dalton. Dalton was poorly miscast as James Bond. His big selling point was that he played the part serious. For many people pissed off with Roger Moore over the years, he was a Godsend.

3) Do you blame Dalton for the weak women casting (again), horrible marketing, and tough competition LTK had when it was released? Dalton was but one poor element. I have often wished over the years that Bond belonged to another studio besides MGM. Bond has managed to thrive over the years despite MGM, not because of it.

[Jriv71]

I can only speak for myself but, when I've dissed Connery in DAF, it's because he was THE MAN until then. (Welll, maybe up until YOLT.) And I've said I wouldn't care about his appearance had the script not sucked so badly.

And I love Pierce; whoever wants him (or anyone else) dead needs serious help.

I'm going to watch Goldfinger.

[SamuelKevlar]

How did my little thread about a winking fish turn into an argument over the merits of Dalton as Bond and Brosnan's right to live?

Personally, I love them both, Dalton just a little more than Brosnan.

[brendan007]

Originally posted by doublenoughtspy


Well gee, by that flawed logic American Pie 2 is miles above Citizen Kane in the film world then.

3) Do you blame Dalton for the weak women casting (again), horrible marketing, and tough competition LTK had when it was released?

American Pie 2 is miles above Citizen Kane. And the women in LTK are its only redemming qualities (as well as Q of course)

[Daltonitus]

American Pie 2 is miles below watching paint dry.

[Dr Noah]

"He WAS Fleming's Bond"

No, strictly speaking David Niven was.

I'm afraid that I have read and re-read Fleming's work half a dozen times and I don't really think Dalton was Fleming's Bond. The closet he got to it was TLD, with some really good moments but parts of LTK are almost anti-Fleming in approach ie the Bond-M relationship.

[Jriv71]

But the relationship was based on how the script was written, not how Dalton played it. He played it rock-solid, the way Fleming's Bond was usually written.

[SirMiles83]

I'm afraid that I have read and re-read Fleming's work half a dozen times and I don't really think Dalton was Fleming's Bond. The closet he got to it was TLD, with some really good moments but parts of LTK are almost anti-Fleming in approach ie the Bond-M relationship.

I quite agree, Dr. Noah. This is the subject of a thread I started the other day called "Fleming's Bond?" Dalton played a good Bond, but I don't think he is the "Fleming Bond", and I don't think anyone of the actors have ultimately nailed it, but they've all been good.

[Fawn]

Actually, it wasn't just the winking fish in that film that made me go, "huh"? The whole ending sequence seemed frivolous and out of place. But maybe that's just me.

[Coop]

I always thought the winking fish was daft, but if it was a feature of the pool, maybe in Bond's world it was set to wink randomly and it just happened to wink at that moment.

Maybe...

[Tarl_Cabot]

Dude,It's called Mexican architecture. Look into it. That fish winked because the person who designed the house wanted the fish to wink. It has nothing to do with John Glen or the screenplay or Dalton. Sheesh! That villa is the most beautiful home ever put on a movie screen too.