43 replies to this topic

[ray t]

i've read posts/threads where fans have been lamenting the passing of "blofeld" in FYEO pretitles.

is it not true that Eon can't have Ernst Stavro Blofeld as a character in their productions.

TSWLM originally was to have blofeld return as the villian but legal issues meant that stromberg was the villian.

unless i'm mistaken, the ESB character is legally a Kevin McClory copyrighted character and (i think) Eon have no right to ressurect the name.

FYEO only 'implied' the character portrayed originally by plesance/sevallas and, as a result, Eon were able to 'get away' with it and finally put an end to the character as well as get their dig into mr mcClory at the same time.

kindly correct me if i'm mistaken:)

[Mister Asterix]

Well, Kevin McClory believes he owns the rights and Eon knows that if they use Blofeld there will be a lawsuit. And Eon might not win, and it might effect more than just the new Blofeld movie.

So essentially yes. Either McClory owns the rights or he’s holding them ransom.

[ray t]

Originally posted by Mister Asterix

So essentially yes. Either McClory owns the rights or he’s holding them ransom.

holding them ransom may not be the correct phraseology...how about "holding them to perpetual black-mail"

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by ray t
holding them ransom may not be the correct phraseology...how about "holding them to perpetual black-mail"

It’s probably actually somewhere between the two phrases.

[Wade]

Originally posted by ray t


holding them ransom may not be the correct phraseology...how about "holding them to perpetual black-mail"

What the hell IS that line of Connery's in the "Sir Donald" scene in DAF? Something like "making you ?????? to perpetual blackmail." I could never understand the word through that frickin' brogue. Anybody?

[mkkbb]

But surely Eon could use Blofeld. Why....

1 - He first appeared in FRWL (two films before Thunderball)
2 - Eon also produced Thunderball with McClory
3 - Blofeld appeared in YOLT and OHMSS, and never had a lawsuit against them

If McClory could use the image of James Bond 007 in his own films, Eon should be able to use the image of Blofeld in their films!

[Simon]

But Blofeld first came about in the literary form of Thunderball which is where McClory's conception first came to be.

As to Blofeld being used in other films without problem, there have been many things hapening without problem until McClory decided to bring them out of the cupboard for an airing. I think that was one of the judges' comments, "Why did you wait until now to bring this up?" Why indeed.

At the end of the day, it is only a name that most Bond cinema goers would not attach any relevance to so why expose yourself to any court action by trying to use this name again.

If they really want to use it though, McClory is not going to be around forever though I'm not sure if he has an estate that would then hold on to the name for him.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Originally posted by Simon
As to Blofeld being used in other films without problem, there have been many things hapening without problem until McClory decided to bring them out of the cupboard for an airing.  I think that was one of the judges' comments, "Why did you wait until now to bring this up?" Why indeed.

If I understand it correctly, one of the tradeoffs for McClory producing Thunderball was that he couldn't do anything further with it for 10 years. During that time Eon were free to do what they wanted with Blofeld.

And I guess it was after 1974 that Kevvy seriously considered dusting off the Blofeld/Thunderball remake skeletons.

[ray t]

Originally posted by Wade


What the hell IS that line of Connery's in the "Sir Donald" scene in DAF? Something like "making you ?????? to perpetual blackmail." I could never understand the word through that frickin' brogue. Anybody?

all good points by Mr *, Simon and B.C.

i believe, wade, the line was MAKING U 'BLEED' TO PERPETUAL BLACKMAIL

[Wade]

I think it also might be "making you agree to perpetual blackmail."

[ray t]

Originally posted by Wade
I think it also might be "making you agree to perpetual blackmail."

ummm...i dont really think so....bleed is the correct word as in:

drawing blood from a stone...or...bleeding him dry....

'bleed' is extreme and menacing and so is its intent. the word 'agree' is not what connery uttered.

check the DVD via the sub-titles option.

u could even subtitute/interchange HAEMORRHAGE (check spelling) for BLEED and the intent would be similiar

[Wade]

The only subtitles option on my DVD is French and Spanish. No English. Unless I'm missing something.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blofeld's Cat

If I understand it correctly, one of the tradeoffs for McClory producing Thunderball was that he couldn't do anything further with it for 10 years. During that time Eon were free to do what they wanted with Blofeld.

And I guess it was after 1974 that Kevvy seriously considered dusting off the Blofeld/Thunderball remake skeletons.

You are correct Blofeld's Cat. When McClory reached the agreement with Saltzman and Broccoli to produce "Thunderball" in the 1960s he was contracturally obliged not to pursue his rights to the Bond character for another 10 years. It was during that time (1965 to 1971) that EON produced the series of movies with Blofeld as the villain.
Right on time in 1975 it was announced that McClory was working on a James Bond movie to be called "Warhead".
Also Ernst Stavro Blofeld was introduced in the novel "Thunderball" which McClory had a hand in the conception of. That effectively means that McClory has the cinematic rights to the Blofeld character (under the terms of the 1960s court decision).

[Simon]

Yeah, forgot the 10 year clause. Absolutely right fellas.

I'd heard that he then intended to bring out a series of films based on Thunderball. One wonders just how many times he could have achieved that, especially in these times where one has to keep the storyline a secret.

MGM wouldn't have backed him then I guess!!

[ray t]

i personally rate THUNDERBALL the greatest bond of all inspite of some continuity errors and (perhaps) overly long underwater sequences.

to date, it is THE MOST SUCCESSFUL of all the 007 movies on any level adjusted for inflation and McClory milked it to the hilt.

simon, i dont think he can do films based on thunderball...i think, as far as james bond is concerned, he can only RE-MAKE Thunderball....and how many times can u do that in a lifetime before your peers begin to think youre one step away from the lunatic asylum:o:p:)

[ChandlerBing]

I thought McClory WAS in the lunatic asylum. He's become one of the things he's claimed to have invented: The perfect, megalomaniacal Bond villain.

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by ray t
simon, i dont think he can do films based on thunderball...i think, as far as james bond is concerned, he can only RE-MAKE Thunderball....and how many times can u do that in a lifetime before your peers begin to think youre one step away from the lunatic asylum:o:p:)

Actually, he can do films closely based on the ten Thunderball scripts that he, Jack Whittingham, and Fleming knocked out in the late 50s. Of course these scripts are all variations of themselves but Ol' Kev has a wider latitude than just remaking Thunderball. Though the script that Richard Maibaum and John Hopkins wrote for the actual movie in not one of those ten so I suppose technically McClory can’t just remake the film Thunderball.

[kevrichardson]

How do we explain "Secret Service " and "You only Live Twice" . Any biography on Fleming that i have read . States that SPECTRE and Blofeld was his creation . In all the original drafts of what ever Kevin McClory worked on was based on the Mafia stealing the nuclear bombs fron NATO . Not a terrorist organization like SPECTRE.

[ray t]

Originally posted by Mister Asterix


Actually, he can do films closely based on the ten Thunderball scripts that he, Jack Whittingham, and Fleming knocked out in the late 50s. Of course these scripts are all variations of themselves but Ol' Kev has a wider latitude than just remaking Thunderball. Though the script that Richard Maibaum and John Hopkins wrote for the actual movie in not one of those ten so I suppose technically McClory can’t just remake the film Thunderball.

i stand corrected, my friend...although, in all seriousness, i didnt mean to imply he had to make an 'exact' remake...in NSNA we had variations on a theme a la fatima blush replacing fiona volpe, the north african location, the computer game instead of that classic bacarrat 'spectre of defeat' moment...but the spine of the story was identical

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by kevrichardson (edited)
Any biography on Fleming than i have read . States that SPECTRE and Blofeld was his creation .  In all the original drafts of what ever Kevin McClory worked on was based on the Mafia stealing the nuclear bombs fron NATO . Not a terrorist organization like SPECTRE.

That’s right.

Whittingham’s version of the script, presumably working with McClory, had the villains as the mob. Fleming’s version changed it to SPECTRE. Whittingham’s next version then changed it back to the mob. :eek: Fleming changed it back to SPECTRE. It seemed that McClory and Whittingham did not like the SPECTRE idea. It is possible that it was just Whittingham that didn’t the idea of SPECTRE.

McClory has said things like ‘I created Blofeld’ and ‘I created SPECTRE’ and ‘The American infidels are committing suicide on the walls of Bagdad’. (I could be wrong about that last one ) And there is nothing that definitively proves that he didn’t. Since Fleming isn’t around and probably couldn’t say if he was around the courts would just have to take McClory’s word on it.

[Wade]

It will be such a relief when McClory dies (not really, but stay with me) and his heirs can finally settle everything with EON. Then all Bond films properties will reside with that company. Period.

[B5Erik2]

EON COULD use Blofeld - if they came to an agreement with McClory ahead of time. Buy him off so that he couldn't sue them.

Of course, they probably won't ever do that since there is so much bad blood there....

McClory, for his part, can't make ANY Bond movies now, based on Thunderball or anything else. The recent court cases saw to that. So while he does claim to own the rights to Blofeld and SPECTRE, he can't do anything with those rights except sell them back to EON.

[Dr.Carl Mortner]

Well, we can bash McClory all we want (and we blasted well should), but the fact remains that EON had 10 full years to wrap up the Blofeld story satisfactorily, INCLUDING his satisfying, vengeance-driven demise at Bond's hands in DAF. And they dropped the ball.

I've always wondered, though, if Bond's particularly-brutal disposal of Stromberg was originally written as Blofeld's demise. I always wondered why the usually-unflappable Bond would be so hostile in what otherwise would have been the usual disposal of yet another mad-scientist type.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Wade
It will be such a relief when McClory dies (not really, but stay with me) and his heirs can finally settle everything with EON. Then all Bond films properties will reside with that company. Period.

Yeah then EON will have a total monopoly, what a great idea --- NOT!

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by B5Erik2
McClory, for his part, can't make ANY Bond movies now, based on Thunderball or anything else.  The recent court cases saw to that.  So while he does claim to own the rights to Blofeld and SPECTRE, he can't do anything with those rights except sell them back to EON.

Not true. The court never took away McClory’s Thunderball rights.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Mister Asterix


Not true. The court never took away McClory’s Thunderball rights.

You are correct. McClory was never stripped of his rights to "Thunderball". The only way he would lose his rights is if he sold them to EON. I am sure those rights are heridatary also (like they were for Babs Broccoli and Mike Wilson).

[ChandlerBing]

What the hell is the point, though, of hanging on to those rights? If all he is doing is hanging onto them out of spite, that would really piss me off. I just don't see how and/or why he would want to do ANOTHER remake of Thunderball. The movie doesn't--and never did need--remaking. I'll say it again, you only remake movies that weren't that good to begin with. Leave it alone.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
How do we explain "Secret Service " and "You only Live Twice" . Any biography on Fleming that i have read . States that SPECTRE and Blofeld was his creation .  In all the original drafts of what ever Kevin McClory worked on was based on the Mafia stealing the nuclear bombs fron NATO . Not a terrorist organization like SPECTRE.

Kevrichardson - That may be true. But the court decision in the 1960s gave the literary rights to "Thunderball" to Fleming, and the cinematic/movie rights to McClory.

ChandlerBing - Why shouldn't he hold onto the rights? They belong to him! I don't think its right for any company ti have a complete monopoly. Thunderball has been made (and remade) but it's kinda nice to know that EON doesn't have a total right to the cinematic Bond.

[ChandlerBing]

Is he going to do anything with them, though? Should he? I think he's just hanging onto them to be a total ****.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Irrespective of who owns the Blofeld character the main thing is that it doesn't stop Eon from making Bond movies.

That's the main thing.

We can all live without Baldy by now. We've done so for, at the very least, 22 years.