23 replies to this topic

[DLibrasnow]

I think it is common knowledge on the boards that the titles for TWINE were originally supposed to run after Bond makes the jump from the balcony in Spain and before the boat chase scenes.
The idea was scrapped after someone (probably the producers) pointed out that audiences were accustomed to truly spectacular openings for 007 movies and would feel "cheated" by such a "tame" opening.
I agree with the final decision, but it occured to me that the first idea would not have looked out of place before TSWLM. It was the precredits of TSWLM that really set that truly spectacular standard.
What do other CBNers think? Would they have accepted the titles running after he jumps from the balcony?

[freemo]

Either way I wouldn't have minded. I love the first half of the pretitle scene, best part of the whole film I think, had they gone to the titles from there I wouldn't have thougth it "tame" or unsatifying, but I can see their reasoning I suppose.

Boat chase was a little flat I thought, but the end made a great lead in into the title sequence.

[rafterman]

I like it the way it is, but the short version just would have been so much more of a classic Connery pre-titles, not the blow the wad action scene stuff that seems to be the norm now...

[BONDFINESSE 007]

i could have excepted either way, although i did think that the boat chase draged on a bit to much, does anyone else think it went to long???

[brendan007]

I wish the credits had been moved to after the banker office. The whole pre-credits sequence feels too rushed with M's scene and then the boat chase. While the bankers scene may not be a 'huge' opening, i think its a great opening, and would have signalled that this bond film is a little different from the rest.
Then the film could have started properly with M's scene and then the boat chase, which i think shouldve been longer. Apparently an early cut of the boat chase went for 13 minutes, so there was definetly footage there to use (although the whole 13 minutes would be pushing it).

[Double-Oh-Zero]

I would have liked them to just leave it as originally planned. Bond maybe could have had a chase around the top floor (like in the game), thrown somebody down the stairs or did more fighting in the office to make it more interesting. They still could have done the cool lead into the titles with Bond dropping into them, just with him falling from the banker's office rather than the Millennium Dome.

[Doubleshot]

I can't really imagine this gigantic action scene coming in just after the end titles have ended leaving little room for plot in the two to three minutes we see Moneypenny and M before the boat chase. It would have felt very uneven.

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Doubleshot
I can't really imagine this gigantic action scene coming in just after the end titles have ended leaving little room for plot in the two to three minutes we see Moneypenny and M before the boat chase. It would have felt very uneven.

Fair point, but originally the Vauxhall House scenes were intended to be longer. From what I understand, the shot immediately after the opening credits was to have been Bond returning to London via a seaplane that lands on the Thames. Peter Lamont had designed an underground tunnel, complete with security checkpoint, which would have taken Bond directly from the seaplane dock to MI6 headquarters. One of the regular staff (Tanner or Robinson) was supposed to have met him on arrival.

[Righty007]

I like the movie how it is. The longer the opening sequence, the better.

[Doubleshot]

Originally posted by Roebuck:
Fair point, but originally the Vauxhall House scenes were intended to be longer. From what I understand, the shot immediately after the opening credits was to have been Bond returning to London via a seaplane that lands on the Thames. Peter Lamont had designed an underground tunnel, complete with security checkpoint, which would have taken Bond directly from the seaplane dock to MI6 headquarters. One of the regular staff (Tanner or Robinson) was supposed to have met him on arrival.

I remember reading about this in the Benson novelization, but was it actually filmed?

[Robinson]

Originally posted by rafterman
I like it the way it is, but the short version just would have been so much more of a classic Connery pre-titles, not the blow the wad action scene stuff that seems to be the norm now...

I managed to read a portion of the script online prior to the film's release and thought the revelation of Renard after Bond's "descent" in Bilbao was the perfect place to start the credits.

I thought the boat chase was novel but it could've waited until after the credits. That being said, I thought the image of Bond staggering offscreen as the credits rolled was inspired.

You're right though- these pretitle sequences are better than the last three Bond climaxes.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Roebuck


Fair point, but originally the Vauxhall House scenes were intended to be longer. From what I understand, the shot immediately after the opening credits was to have been Bond returning to London via a seaplane that lands on the Thames. Peter Lamont had designed an underground tunnel, complete with security checkpoint, which would have taken Bond directly from the seaplane dock to MI6 headquarters. One of the regular staff (Tanner or Robinson) was supposed to have met him on arrival.

Wow, that really sounds kinda cool, I would have loved to seen that. I also wish the boat chase had gone on for longer, because for me that was the highlight of the movie.

[Xenobia]

Hey Roebuck!

If we have come in from the song with Bond landing his plane on the Thames...I would have loved that! That was the perfect entrance.

If what Roebuck said is true and if Bond had managed to jump out the window, into his car, and then casually drove to the sea plane...that would have made for a fitting opening sequence.

-- Xenobia

[Harmsway]

I think a myth has arisen that there was an edit of TWINE with an "original" precredits where the pre-title sequence ended after Bilbao. Unfortunately, I've never seen evidence for that. From the very beginning of production, the intention was to have the titles come after the Thames chase - and that's how it appears in the First Draft by Purvis and Wade. All the separate drafts read exactly as it plays on film, and even though a sequence of safeguards for MI6 entry was planned, my understanding was that they scrapped it before filming began.

The plan had always been to have the scene post-Thames chase, even from the very beginning. There was a lot more they planned to put in the Thames chase, but was cut.

There may have been a short-time in between script re-writes when this was brought up, but was quickly dismissed. I don't think that it was an idea the team toyed with for very long. But if anybody knows that I'm wrong (there is room for error, because I've never actually read the first draft - I've only heard second hand how it is), then feel free to correct me!

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Harmsway
From the very beginning of production, the intention was to have the titles come after the Thames chase - and that's how it appears in the First Draft by Purvis and Wade.

I'm not certain the boat chase was in the original draft. One version of events suggests Dana Stevens added it to take the place of a lame-brained jetpack sequence Purvis & Wade had come up with.

[Harmsway]

That is true, but it's still a version of the "Thames chase". The Q boat just replaces the jetpack in the overall sequence. In both drafts (the jetpack and the Q boat) the titles come after the whole Thames sequence.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Harmsway
That is true, but it's still a version of the "Thames chase". The Q boat just replaces the jetpack in the overall sequence. In both drafts (the jetpack and the Q boat) the titles come after the whole Thames sequence.

I really think you are incorrect on this Harmsway. A lot of press was given (during the release of TWINE) to the fact that the credits were supposed to come after Bond jumped from the window. I believe it was Purvis and Wade who commented that this was their original intention, but someone on the Bond team didn't feel that stunt had enough punch. This was the reason the boat chase was shortened from the length it was ACTUALLY FILMED to run.
The fact that they filmed a longer boat chase (some reports have it to as much as 13 minutes) should speak volumes in itself, as it is, even wth the shortened version, the TWINE precredits is the longest of the series.

[Harmsway]

I'm not sure, and I never read any press during the release of TWINE about that (not that it didn't exist). But Purvis and Wade weren't involved during shooting - they wrote the first draft and then Dana Stevens and Feirstein took over. They weren't even involved with the Bilbao sequence. What they wrote took place in Cuba and didn't have the dive out the window sequence. That came along with Feirstein.

So that was a real early decision if they were a part of it - long before shooting ever began. I think the length of the boat chase was just mainly because they had a lot of stuff they wanted in it, possibly with the intention of knowing it was too long but didn't know what would would work and what wouldn't.

[Doubleshot]

I believe on one of the two audio commentaries on the TWINE DVD - either the one with Michael Apted or the one with Peter Lamont, David Arnold, and Vic Armstrong - the subject is brought up that the test audiences were the party that decided that the window jump was not enough to go into the titles with. I do recall, however, reading an early draft of the script (by Purvis and Wade) that went directly to the chase and then into the credits as in the film. I would probably trust Apted and Lamont over a second-hand-typed script on the internet, though.

[Harmsway]

Okay, that settles it. Don't have the DVD, so that would do it!

[DLibrasnow]

Good catch Doubleshot, now that you mention it that does ring a bell.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Yep, it's the commentary with Armstrong, Arnold and Lamont. They also discuss as a result cutting the boat chase and that originally there was 18 minutes of footage from it (which would have had to been cut anyway). It was going to end with the Renard/Cigar girl scene that was cut and then enter into the credits. I gather they were able to change it later as regards Bond falling into the credits because as Apted said the credits were about the last things to be completed in post production.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Mourning Becomes Electra
Yep, it's the commentary with Armstrong, Arnold and Lamont.  They also discuss as a result cutting the boat chase and that originally there was 18 minutes of footage from it (which would have had to been cut anyway).  It was going to end with the Renard/Cigar girl scene that was cut and then enter into the credits.  I gather they were able to change it later as regards Bond falling into the credits because as Apted said the credits were about the last things to be completed in post production.

It's almost a shame they never produced a directors cut of sorts that included those edited and deleted scenes. For me personally my favorite sequence in TWINE is the boat chase on the Thames and I would have liked to see it go on a bit longer.

[Doubleshot]

What I really miss from the DVD (and, of course, the film itself) are those small scenes and lines of dialogue I've read in the novelization and the online script that shed some more light on Bond and Elektra's relationship between the main points in the film (the meeting, the casino scene, the bedding; the betrayal, the torture scene, and the climax). I personally like the film, but feel some things were unwisely cut. I could do without the scene between Renard and the Cigar Girl (only adds to the effect of surprise when Bond confronts Renard in the bunker) and the extended boat chase (though, for archival purposes and for the fans, an extended cut of the chase on the DVD would have been fantastic); I much prefer these small character-building scenes that may not be essential to the film, but still shed some light on the story and characters.

But back on topic -- I think the seagueway from Bond hanging from the Millenium Dome into the main titles is brilliant and wouldn't change it for the world.