35 replies to this topic

[SirMiles83]

After hearing about and noticing the similarities of Die Another Day to Moonraker, the novel, I thought about other scenes from Fleming's novels that haven't been used in any of the films. Should EON try to "tap the Fleming well" until it runs dry or should the new movies be completely original? Should they make a more honest adaptation of Diamonds Are Forever? Or how about Dr. No's physical tests of Bond when he wrestled the squid? How about some or all of Casino Royale, or Dr. Shatterhand's garden of death in You only Live Twice?

[Mister Asterix]

As most could probably tell by my Casino Royale thread. I think Eon should keep looking to Fleming. However, it may come to a surprise to some that I don’t think Eon should always look to Fleming material. There really isn’t much original Fleming material left so they should use what is left wisely and sparingly. I wouldn’ advocate using Fleming material in every film until they run completely dry. Use it if it works in the films context. Don’t use it if it doesn’t. Don’t just cram it in to use it.

The film titles in the post- The Living Daylights era are a good example of spreading out the Fleming. Licence to Kill – Fleming roots. GoldenEye – Fleming roots. Tomorrow Never Dies – Original. The World is not Enough – Fleming roots. Die Another Day – Original. There are a few good Fleming rooted titles out there, but let’s not just slap them on to any film whether it fits or not.

The remaining material from the Fleming novels should work the same way.

[kevrichardson]

The only unused Fleming that's left is his non-fiction works .
"The Diamond Smugglers" .1957
"Thrilling Cities" .1963 .

[SirMiles83]

There are many unused scenes from the novels rather than whole novels to translate into film. It has been started with Goldeneye: Bond racing Xenia in the countryside, then finding her at a casino is very close to the novel OHMSS. MR is all over DAD. I think it should continue.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by SirMiles83
There are many unused scenes from the novels rather than whole novels to translate into film. It has been started with Goldeneye: Bond racing Xenia in the countryside, then finding her at a casino is very close to the novel OHMSS. MR is all over DAD. I think it should continue.

I don't see the connection between the opening of "GE" and "OHMSS" . Just because the two cars are racing ! Unleft Fleming , the whole of "YOLT" . The only connection with the film is title and Bond and Blofeld , Tanaka , Henderson . That it! Some of the short stories ie. "The Property of a Lady".

[Harmsway]

The Property of a Lady was nearly used in its entirety in Octopussy. There's not much left to use.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Harmsway
The Property of a Lady was nearly used in its entirety in Octopussy. There's not much left to use.

100% correct ! Thanks . Here is a secondary question . Does EON own just the fiction writings of Fleming . What about the non-fiction stuff.

[SirMiles83]

The connection I see with Goldeneye and the novel OHMSS is in the novel Bond is racing with Tracy, than tracks her down to a Casino. Bond does this as well in GE. They both happen at the beginning of the stories and both involve Bond chasing down the elusive beautiful girl from the countryside to the casino, then discovering that she is not all that she seems. Its small, but I see a direct comparison.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by SirMiles83
The connection I see with Goldeneye and the novel OHMSS is in the novel Bond is racing with Tracy, than tracks her down to a Casino. Bond does this as well in GE. They both happen at the beginning of the stories and both involve Bond chasing down the elusive beautiful girl from the countryside to the casino, then discovering that she is not all that she seems. Its small, but I see a direct comparison.

Well i don't see it that way . But to each his own .

[Simon]

I think the thread is concerned with actual literary items being lifted in their entireity, as opposed to items that could just as easily be called re-used elements or, dare I say it, homages.

For example, they could use the title Quantum of Solace (not that I want it) as it is currently unused but could not re-use Hilderbrand Rarity elements again.

But to the point, I think they should use Fleming when practicable but not forever more ignore. I think the topic is in safe hands as I have heard Wilson mention that he feels it important to continue to use from the source.

[kevrichardson]

Some parts of the "Hilderbrand Rarity" was used in "LTK" . The character Milton Krest.

[General Koskov]

There is still Casino Royale despite some erroneous statements about TWINE covering CR's basic storyline. It would also give us a film where Bond is actually wearing a dinner jacket for a reason, not just to perpetuate a myth.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by General Koskov
There is still Casino Royale despite some erroneous statements about TWINE covering CR's basic storyline.  It would also give us a film where Bond is actually wearing a dinner jacket for a reason, not just to perpetuate a myth.

Thank you !!! A voice of reason at last. No one want to do "Casino Royale" . It's too bad people feel this way.

[SirMiles83]

Of all of the unused Fleming material, I would like to see Dr. Shatterhand's garden of death. Although it wouldn't be Blofeld, it would be a very eerie scene with Bond undercover in the garden while normal people are commiting suicide around him. Though it would be hard to make that PG 13

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by SirMiles83
Of all of the unused Fleming material, I would like to see Dr. Shatterhand's garden of death. Although it wouldn't be Blofeld, it would be a very eerie scene with Bond undercover in the garden while normal people are commiting suicide around him. Though it would be hard to make that PG 13

I am sure that some will place this scene in a Brosnan Bond film . There is also the Camera bomb assassination attempt in "CR" . The whole opening in "TMWTGG" in "M"s office.

[kevrichardson]

Also unused is the whole of the original plot to "TSWLM" .

[rafterman]

they can't use TSWLM at all....

[Dr Noah]

"There are many unused scenes from the novels rather than whole novels to translate into film. It has been started with Goldeneye: Bond racing Xenia in the countryside, then finding her at a casino is very close to the novel OHMSS."

I spotted the similarity the first time I re-read OHMMS since watching the movie

Also there is a similarity beween Alec and Drax :-

Both are disfigured, both want revenge for acts which occured during the 2nd World War and both want to destroy London.

Plus the hostile relationship between Bond and a new "M" is taken from Never Say Never Again

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
"There are many unused scenes from the novels rather than whole novels to translate into film. It has been started with Goldeneye: Bond racing Xenia in the countryside, then finding her at a casino is very close to the novel OHMSS."
I spotted the similarity the first time I re-read OHMMS since watching the movie
Also there is a similarity beween Alec and Drax  
Both are disfigured, both want revenge for acts which occured during the 2nd World War and both want to destroy London.
Plus the hostile relationship between Bond and a new "M" is taken from Never Say Never Again  

Why would EON use a bastard verision of Bond to establish a hostile relationship between M and Bond . It goes against the novels . "M" and Bond had a father/son relationship. Bond was "M" top agent. I am not convinced to the OHMSS connection to "GE" . Also no real connection with Drax and Alex from GE.

[Simon]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Some parts of the "Hilderbrand Rarity" was used in "LTK" . The character Milton Krest.

Yup, hence my use of the word, "re-use".

[JackChase007]

How about bringing in Rene Mathis as an ally? I think Jean Reno would be so perfect for the part, and I would love to see him on-screen with Pierce Brosnan.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by JackChase007
How about bringing in Rene Mathis as an ally?  I think Jean Reno would be so perfect for the part, and I would love to see him on-screen with Pierce Brosnan.

Good idea!! Why has Rene Mathis not been used before . Jean Reno is a good actor , he might over shadow Brosnan.

[ChandlerBing]

But then again, Brosnan is a good actor, too, so they might compliment each other.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing
But then again, Brosnan is a good actor, too, so they might compliment each other.

Given EON's policy of no one overshadows Bond . Plus it's refusal to give Bond a sidekick who is his equal. We will never find out.

[ChandlerBing]

Then again, this isn't an ensemble piece either. They do the same thing on Indiana Jones. I gotta give them credit for Connery, but they had to go back and forth because they didn't want Connery overshadowing Ford. Could they possibly get someone like that in Bond? It would take a lot of balls to do it, that's for sure. If you did decide to do it, who would you get?

[kevrichardson]

"A ensemble piece". Or is the main actor (Brosnan) not powerful enough of a screen presence . Too survive that type of ordeal. One has too wonder. "FRWL" , one of the best films in the series was a "ensmble piece" . Connery shined in that , with some great talents beside him.

[Dr Noah]

"Good idea!! Why has Rene Mathis not been used before . Jean Reno is a good actor , he might over shadow Brosnan.
"

Like Robert Davi did with Dalton?

[JackChase007]

I think they could handle it well - Brosnan's a great actor, and I have a feeling that they'd have a good chemistry together.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah

Like Robert Davi did with Dalton?

what film did you watch.

[Dr Noah]

I think it was called Licence To Kill, a very dull Lethal Weapon type movie, made in America.