25 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

With the announcement that Raymond Benson will no longer be writing the continuation novels, it would seem that that the literary series is dead, or at best on hold for the next few years.

The question is: how to revive it?

A lot of us agree that the continuation novels have been badly marketed. I myself would argue that they seem to have been aimed too exclusively at a niche readership of hardcore fans.

On another thread (http://forums.comman...hp?threadid=366), Jim made an excellent point that I hope he won't mind me quoting:

"Gardner and Benson pepper their books with random action sequences, like....well, like the films. That's the real difficulty. They are like reading films. Yes, that makes them flow along very nicely but the James Bond of the films is basically "a nice guy", a real hero. That is the Bond of Benson and Gardner. Fleming's Bond is a callous, sparsely educated yobbo who makes mistakes, is not a superhuman, drinks heavily, is prone to suicidal depression and has a cold, dark heart."

Regardless of whether one likes Gardner and Benson, it's undeniable that the Bond of their continuation novels, generally speaking, IS the Bond of the films. This might have seemed a sensible strategy to maximise the books' appeal, but I'd suggest that, if the literary series is to be revived and prosper as something other than an increasingly irrelevant cog in the wheel of fandom, it must establish its own identity.

In other words, the literary series must once again feature a literary 007, as opposed to a cinematic one.

I don't say that this must necessarily be Fleming's vision of Bond, but it ought to be a character that the general public will want to read about, rather than figure it might as well just stick with watching movies about.

[Blue Eyes]

Jim raises an excellent point that the books have to be harder. You can only do so much with the films as you're prone to classifications, and you need to aim for a PG-13 film.

The books, on the other hand, are aimed more at an 18+ audience. Something grittier, darker, could work well and attract a new audience.

Frankly, one of the biggest things the series needs is a marketing campaign.

[freemo]

I think there's a few things they can do to revive the series. First of all, they now need a new author, someone who's written a few books, not necessarly hugely famous. Second, let the man (or woman should the case be) write the books with limited restrictions (perhaps the only restrictions being not killing off Moneypenny and keeping the references to Fleming stories down to say, I dunno, six). This isn't a book by commitie or however that saying goes.

Third, give the book a decent title and a decent cover. Despite the old saying, many people judge a book by it's cover. They can look like those new Fleming reprints everyone likes, not not neccesarily, even the old Garnder ones like Sea Fire and COLD are okay, just as long as it's as dissimilar from the "Maths Book" Never Dream of Dying cover as possible (obviously the plan with that cover was so that school boys could read the book in Maths class without the teacher getting suspicuos, pity it didn't result in more sales). The cover shoudn't have "James Bond" in a font larger than the books title either, implies that the book isn't good in it's own right, I'd suggest it puts off people who aren't hardcore fans either.

Fourth, promote the things and make them at least somewhat available in book stores. Get them in the newspaper, whatever, even have some dumb tag line like "James Bond is back". When the first book by the new author comes out, re-release some of the old books, the Gardners, Bensons and whatnot. The challenge is getting people not to dismiss Bond at first glance. The challenge is to get Joe Blow to pick up one book, then if he likes it he's sure to want to read more of them.

[Blofeld's Cat]

This is all good and well, but the very first thing thats needs to be done is to change the current mindset of those that run Flemming's estate.

They don't seem the slightest bit interested, which is proved by the fact that Benson was getting paid a pitance for his novels and if it wasn't for the fact that he is a Bond fan he wouldn't have bothered in the first place. And then there is the issue of the lack of any marketing drive to promote the books.

Once IFP Ltd develope any sort of enthusiasm in continuing the novels can we then, maybe, consider the merits of any marketing strategy.

Hate to sound gloomy, but I can't see it happening anytime soon, if at all.

[Matt Helm]

How about starting off some interest with a "Tribute to Fleming" book to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the real James Bond (like the music industry often does). Glidrose could release a collection of short stories combining old ones with new ones. It could include Fleming's own "007 in New York" which was barely published in paperback copies of Thrilling Cities. It could also include Benson's collection such as "Blast From The Past" (the elusive full version), "Midsummers Nights Doom", and "Live at Five". Then they could ask current authors who are admitantly fond of Fleming's work, to create new short stories in honor of the anniversary.

The strategy could benefit them three fold. First, they would easily capture the core audience without having to invest much time as it is not a full length investment. Second, they may be able to spark some interest in Benson's books as BFTP isn't too bad. And third, they may get lucky and find another author who is both eager and qualified (which I think Benson was, so don't attack me) by using the tales as auditions.

Anyway, just a thought. I love the literary Bond more than his film counterpart. I would hate to see it end.

[marktmurphy]

I like your thinking, Matt. It would certainly be easier to publicise this book as it would be a true 'event' if you could get some big names to submit a story.

[Tehuti 004]

Well I like the idea of releasing the short stories, it probably would get people interested, and secondly, I haven't been able to get any of them.

I don't think there will muc of a revival. The people or my generation (born late 80s) don't really seem interested in anything written, yet alone Bond. They see Bond as a movie, a hero, a videogame. Chances are, they don't know how it all started and that there are books. I asked a few people on a forum I have been on for years, and out of the 6 or so people who replied, none of them had read any books. But someone did hear Robert Markham somewhere, I told him who he really was, and what book he wrote, and he simply replied, nope, wasn't him.

The only people who I know read the books are either the people on these forums or my older relatives (not trying to offend anyone). My Grandad borrowed most of the old Fleming's I had (not the new Pengiun ones) and has since finished them, only a week or three he had them. About 10 of them, and when I saw him the other week, he commented that he had stayed up till 3 reading Fleming books, since he obviously enjoyed them and was probably reminded of his younger days. I will be showing him some of the newer books, he has read Colonel Sun, but I don't know what he will think of them.

But I think they should reprint the Gardner books and Amis' book and that might spark people interests. In the couple of books shops I have visted recently, I have seen a couple of the new Pengiun Fleming books, and a couple of DAD paperbacks. Nothing else. I couldn't find any of Benson's books about. And it can be quite tricky getting Gardner's.

[JackChase007]

Well, I have a good idea for a new author. There's a British mystery writer by the name of Lee Child, who has an excellent knack for character. He's written several novels focusing on a character named Jack Reacher. Just a thought...

[Tehuti 004]

Tom Clancy might be good, but he should cut out the swearing.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
Jim raises an excellent point that the books have to be harder. You can only do so much with the films as you're prone to classifications, and you need to aim for a PG-13 film.

It's not just the action that has to be harder. There are already mildly titillating sex scenes in Benson that you could never actually show in a Bond film.

Jim's point (I believe) was that Bond himself must be harder. Less PG-13. I must be careful here, as I haven't read all of the continuation novels, but I believe that they tend to end in the same way as most of the films, inasmuch as Bond is exactly the same person at the end of an adventure as he was at the start, unchanged and unscarred. He's too much of a superhuman "nice guy", as Jim puts it.

Now, I don't say that the literary Bond must go around like a relic of the 1950s, making disparaging remarks about blacks, gays, etc., but the character ought to be rather more of a coldhearted, sadistic bastard, a lout with ideas above his station of being a sophisticated gentleman. Or something along those lines, anyway.

If there are to be more continuation novels, the writer(s) must be permitted to take risks. If DIE ANOTHER DAY had been an original novel, the idea of Bond being held prisoner for 14 months would have been an excellent start. In the Fleming novels, Bond goes through all manner of life-changing experiences: he is betrayed by a woman he loves ("Casino Royale"), becomes a widower shortly after his wedding, succumbs to amnesia, fathers a child, etc. He ought to be going through similar experiences in the continuation novels.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Tehuti 004
Tom Clancy might be good, but he should cut out the swearing.

You can't be serious about using Tom Clancy as a replacement for Benson . In order to revive the literary Bond series.

[Blue Eyes]

It goes without saying that you have to make everything harder. The events, fights, people, plots etc... need to be more gritty.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
It goes without saying that you have to make everything harder. The events, fights, people, plots etc... need to be more gritty.

Now Benson is accused of not making the plot's "Harder , Grittier " . People complain about that in the film series. Since Benson is a die hard Bond fan . i assumed that the plots would follow what ever was established by Fleming and carried through by Markham(Amis) and Gardner . Bond has to compete with so many other "Spy Novels" . Taht perhaps the number in terms of sale was not there. I never saw one single ad for a Benson Bond . Only the publisher can be held accountible.

[Loomis]

I'm not blaming Benson for the fact that his novels weren't sufficiently "gritty" and "hard", since it would appear that he was under very strict instructions as to how far he could go with sex and violence, and with making the character of Bond cold and mean. Clearly, if a Bond novel contained "American Psycho"-style graphic sex and gore, publishers would be running scared that many potential readers would be offended or alienated. Ironically, a lot of us here are complaining that the Benson novels were too bland.

I doubt that we'll ever know what Benson's novels would have been like if he'd been to subject to no restrictions whatsoever and had had a totally free hand. Maybe he'd have gone further with sex and violence, maybe not. Maybe he'd have made Bond crueller and less of superhero. Then again, maybe Benson believes that Bond should be a whiter-than-white fantasy hero, a nice guy.

[Blue Eyes]

Now Benson is accused of not making the plot's "Harder , Grittier ".

As one of Benson's supporters, I'm not accusing him of anything thank you very much.

[Johnson Galore]

Maybe a nice long break is in order. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the books by all 4 authors. But when License Renewed was published, it was an event becasue there had been no novels in 12 years. I wouldn't want it to go that long. But, let's face it, the last few Gardner books were not bestsellers and didn't give a good lead-in into Benson's takeover of the series. Had his books been best sellers, we wouldn't even be discussing this issue.

[niggle]

Just a quick note regarding Matt Helm's comments above - 007 In New York is now found (certainly in UK) in Octopussy & Living Daylights 50th anniversary edition.

[Simon]

If the harder and grittier aspects need to be heightened, then there would have to be some strong marketing to make people understand that there is no connection between the films' (stronger marketing pull) and the books.

Which will be no easy task as James Bond now means film and not book.

I think the only way is hand over to guest authors with a strict understanding that there won't be any restrictions to work within - otherwise why would a guest author with an obvious talent even want to go anywhere near it?

[marktmurphy]

I can't think of a single reason Simon.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes

As one of Benson's supporters, I'm not accusing him of anything thank you very much.

i was not accusing you of anything . Get over it . Benson did not have the sales numbers to justify his continuing as the Author of Literary Bond . Ian Fleming Publications formerly "Glidrose" , is also inthe business of making money. Clearly the Fleming family what or needs the income from the Bond book . Regardless who is wrting them. What this thread need to do is except the facts that Benson is finished . And hope that "IFP" will not just concentrate on the Fleming novels alone. Perhaps idf EON was not intent on crafting it's own scripts . And use some of the material from the literary source . Like early Gardner or the first set of Benson novels , plus had a tie-in with cinematic and literary Bond . The sales of the book even the paperback book would have been much higher. An example the novelization of DAD was no where near the spy thirller section of a major NYC book . This was during the films early release . Who do you hold accountible .

[Blue Eyes]

To get over it, I'd have to get on it first.

[Simon]

..........or at least take a long enough run up.

[Xenobia]

I mentioned this in another thread and I hope you don't mind me repeating myself here, that one of the ways to bring back the literary series is to market it on the Net. Folks can read special short stories for free, and maybe a chapter or two from a novel for free. And then, if they really like the novel, they can buy subsequent chapters until the book is finished or they no longer like it.

-- Xenobia

[Dr Noah]

Does it really need reviving? After all, Fleming's novels are still selling well, indeed, every time a Bond movie is shown on tv or at the cinema, new readers are inspired to seek the books out.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
Does it really need reviving?  After all, Fleming's novels are still selling well, indeed, every time a Bond movie is shown on tv or at the cinema, new readers are inspired to seek the books out.

Perhaps that what the "Ian Fleming Publication" people are trying to teel the world . But insulting the family , on it personal problems will not help matters . Also one knows what plans it (IFP) may have for the future . No one has posted as to who it would like to repalce Benson . It the literary Bond novels are revived . On a side note does any one care to didcuss the CBN poll on the literary Bond series at last count 44.6% in favor of new author . With 41.9% in favor of Benson . Only 148 people voted . Interesting.

[zencat]

But only 7% think the books should end. Tells you Bond fans do want continuation novels.