15 replies to this topic

[zencat]

Maybe I'm just slow (and I apologize if someone has brought this up already), but I just realized how one should look at the John Gardner era. It seems a given that Gardner

[Truman-Lodge]

Um...I always thought the "split" was common knowledge. But for those of you who never knew, there it is!

Actually, most people seem to stick Win, Lose, or Die into the second group. But yeah...you're right about the tapering off of quality. It happened to Fleming too after Goldfinger.

But I'm still hoping that Benson will get better...

[zencat]

Oh, I knew there was a "split" in quality and tone and popularity, but I never related it so clearly to the change in decade before. That's my, er, "discovery" here. And that's why Win Lose or Die clearly belongs in the first set, it was still set in the 80s. Besides, many people feel this is one of his best books. Brokenclaw ushers in the new '90s Bond. I like this book, but it's one most people reject.

[Harmsway]

I sincerely disagree that Fleming wasn't as good after Goldfinger. In fact, I'd say he was at his best. His SPECTRE trilogy is top of the line, and may be the best single era in Fleming's writing.

[zencat]

...And YOLT may be his best book, IMO. I don't see a Fleming "split."

[Truman-Lodge]

TSWLM, TMWTGG, and TB (though you may debate this last one) were all poorly written. OHMSS, despite Bond getting married, wasn't too good either. It recycled characters (Kerim -> Draco, Rosa -> Irma, return of Blofeld), the structure was weak, and his prose wasn't at its best either.

This leaves YOLT, which I won't argue with. And personally, that's how I see it.

[zencat]

Good. Now back to Gardner...

[Blofeld's Cat]

Not having read a Gardner yet I can't comment on the merits of each book, but it seems a interesting correlation between the 80's books being considered collectively superior to the 90's books.

Surely the difference in quality being clearly seperated by the decades is a mere coincidence?

So, what happened in 1990 to Gardner's creative juices?

[zencat]

Well...I think it was when he was writing Brokenclaw that he, or was it is his wife?, starting have serious health problems. At some point Gardner moved back to England because the good old US Health Care system bled him of all his cash. In other words, life took a turn for the worse for Gardner in the '90s.

[Blofeld's Cat]

If that's the case, I kind of admire the man for sticking it out for another seven books.

[rafterman]

well by the time the 90s hit, he'd been doing the books for like ten years, so just over time his work started to fade, too long writing about something he didn't really like that much, plus the personal distractions and the change in decade had it's effect......look at what kind of changes he made in the 90s books to reflect real life, like Microglobe One and the rearrangement of the double-oh section....Gardner was very much an 80s Bond writer, not a 90s Bond writer...

[zencat]

That seems to be the key here. Gardner brought Bond into the '80s. But the '90s tripped him up.

Still, in his defense, I do really like Brokenclaw, Never Send Flowers, and SeaFire. I think these are better than some of his '80s efforts like Role of Honor, Scorpius, and No Deals Mr. Bond.

[General Koskov]

Gardner lived in the US? No wonder he's always making Bond say 'or as the Americans would say...' Sounds like a child telling mummy what he learnt today: 'Do you know what windshield means?!'

[Kronsteen]

Now, I have not read all Gardners books yet, but from what I've read I must say that he was better during the 90s.

For Special Services and Win, Lose Or Die are both very good books, but Icebreaker, Nobody Lives Forever and Licence Renewed are not good enough. LR are good, but the other two are not.
Licence To Kill is just bad... really really poor.

Never Send Flowers is my favourite Gardner book and I'm currently reading The Man From Barbarossa (I have around 70 pages left), which I am amazed by. TMFB is great, so far.

In the early 80s the books were to much about action, which is not really what I look for in a Bond book. In the late 80s and early 90s though, he wrote more of thriller books.




It's hard to make a good statement when you haven't read all Gardners books, but so far I see the 90s as his best!

[kevrichardson]

"Licence Renewed"(1981) , "For Special Services"(1982) , "Role of Honor"(1984) , Nobody Lives Forever(1986) are Gardner at his best . "No Deals,Mr Bond (1987) Scorpus (1988) , Win Lose or Die 1989) are good novel . But Gardner lost his creative juices during the 90's . The two novelizations "LTK"(1989) , and "GoldenEye"(1995) . Well they speak for themselves.

[Hotshot007]

Having only read 2 Gardner novels,I don't have much of an opinion but I loved License Renewd,his first,but around the 90's(1989,to be exact)his workly really turned for the worst.I thought Win,Lose, or Die sucked.