17 replies to this topic

[Xenobia]

If ye doth not want to read spoilers, read no further.
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Still with me? Read on! (And mind you, this is nearly word for word a repeat of something I wrote in another post about trying to figure out the plot of the movie. I thought, however, this discussion deserved its own post.)

Where is Miss Frost? We have not heard one word or rumour about her since she was introduced at the press conference. Evidently, she is not in Cuba with Mr. Bond...and one must wonder why.

Is she in the Biodomes with Bond when he first spies Jinx? Does he turn Jinx only to have Miranda turn on him -- the secret ally of Graves, as I have suspected her to be?

I would think that discovery -- if indeed Frost is a double agent -- would come during the Ice Palace sequence when Bond saves Jinx. Perhaps Miranda does not go with Bond to Cuba, tries to dissuade from going in fact, because she knows he will find Zao there. And so perhaps in turn, Bond sneaks away from her, starting to be suspicious of the loyalties of Agent Frost.

It could be Frost that sets him up in that hot tub....and she is part of the five that attacks Bond and Jinx.

Or Frost could have been a double agent the other way around...working for Graves....sees that he is nuts....and goes with Bond. In that case, she would switch sides at the Ice Palace, and that is how James escapes with Jinx.

Perhaps Jinx traps him in the hot tub, and Frost saves him. And, it could be Frost that dies at the end of the movie, and *that* is what Bond is angry about that leads him on a path of revenge.

I think one of these women -- Jinx or Miranda -- is shaping up to a Vesper Lynd or Helena Marksbury character: starts off bad, but sides with James' in the end, only to die for that.

What do you think?

-- Xenobia

[Xenobia]

Jim (16 Apr, 2002 07:09 a.m.):
Miranda Frost would appear to have a target tattooed upon her forehead. Perhaps Bond kills her, maybe accidentally. Perhaps she commits suicide.

That'd give Mr Brosnan the opportunity to "do acting"

On second thoughts, best keep him away from that. Perhaps she's eaten by...oh I don't know, a wasp.

A wasp? Hmmm....well, Brocoli did try for the Sci-fi angle once, when he saw that he makes money, perhaps Mikey G. and Barbara B. will go there again. Perhaps this woman eating wasp is a creation of the biodomes.

Jim....you have one creative mind, and I adore you for it.

-- Xenobia

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Xen,

I saw Rosamund in Love Is A Cold Climate and thought she was very good. She projected a maturity in the later episodes and the voice over narration beyond her years and she has a very nice throaty well trained & modulated voice. I'm not afraid of her being another Denise Richards. I think she's lovely and talented, but she is young and this her first film.

She just doesn't have the credits to compete with Berry (or the talent and experience yet) even pre Oscar/SAG/Berlinale Silver Bear etc etc..

Berry was wooed in Nov/Dec when buzz about Monster's Ball had already been circulated, Oscar buzz. They knew what they were getting or might be getting when they hired her, and again they didn't pay her that salary for her not to be a major presence in the film.

As for her coming back, well I don't think she would in any case, Bond girls never come back, not since poor Sylvia Trench was left at the riverside while Bond went off to play with that lovelorn girl from Russia. ;-)

As for the idea that both Bond girls might die, no way in heck, far too much a bummer. Even Bond has better luck with women staying alive than that. LOL

[rubixcub]

Mourning Becomes Electra (16 Apr, 2002 06:35 a.m.):
Xen,

I believe that Bond first encounters Jinx in Cuba.  According to someone who read The Daily Mail (too bad it's not online) she starts off planning to kill him but soon succumbs to his charms.  Why we don't know, but we do know she's an agent for another country (most likely the U.S.).  Does maybe her boss Falco tell her Bond has to be eliminated, that he was turned when he was in N. Korea?

And after TWINE where the main girl turned out to be bad after seeming to be good, and had the majority of airtime, only for Bond to wind up with the secondary girl, I sincerely doubt that DAD will wind up the same way.

If there's a sacrificial lamb it will be Miranda.  Now that question is where exactly does Miranda fit in?  Does Bond meet her first in England pre Cuba?  Do they cross blades then?  Does he then meet Jinx?  Do we then wonder who is good and who is bad?  Does he find out in Iceland and that's why he saves Jinx?  Will Miranda turn out to be bad or just an innocent casualty?

How do we know Jinx is an agent? I have heard people say it time and time again here but there have been no reports on it on the site.

Also, about the main girl dying and Bond ending up with the secondary girl, don't be surprised if they do it again. Often, repeat writers are indentifiable by things they repeat. We know we have a teaser where Bond fails in his mission, like we had in TWINE, conflict between Bond and M, another alternate MI6 HQ, who knows what else. TSWLM and MR had the same plot; I expect TWINE and DAD to have more than a few things in common.

Could very well be that Miranda is a sacrificial lamb, but I make no claims of certainty.

Dave

[Xenobia]

MBE:

I really haven't seen RP so I will not comment on what you are saying until I see her in something and I can judge for myself where her maturities lie.

As for Bond girls not coming back...maybe we are looking at this the wrong way...maybe one of them is more of the "buddy" than the "girl." She will come back in the spirit of Leiter or Wade, to assist Bond and not necessarily to be his lover again.

And just remember...had filming problems not kept Michelle Yeoh away, Wai Lin would have been back!

-- Xenobia

[Dmitri Mishkin]

Rolex, her post itself contains spoilers (or rather, speculative spoilers) in its words. There is no hidden, or must-highlight areas of her post.

[Rolex]

I am bit thick , so can somebody please tell me how i can read the spoilers Xenobia has written. Tx

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

rubixcub (16 Apr, 2002 11:56 p.m.):

Mourning Becomes Electra (16 Apr, 2002 06:35 a.m.):
Xen,

I believe that Bond first encounters Jinx in Cuba.  According to someone who read The Daily Mail (too bad it's not online) she starts off planning to kill him but soon succumbs to his charms.  Why we don't know, but we do know she's an agent for another country (most likely the U.S.).  Does maybe her boss Falco tell her Bond has to be eliminated, that he was turned when he was in N. Korea?

And after TWINE where the main girl turned out to be bad after seeming to be good, and had the majority of airtime, only for Bond to wind up with the secondary girl, I sincerely doubt that DAD will wind up the same way.

If there's a sacrificial lamb it will be Miranda.  Now that question is where exactly does Miranda fit in?  Does Bond meet her first in England pre Cuba?  Do they cross blades then?  Does he then meet Jinx?  Do we then wonder who is good and who is bad?  Does he find out in Iceland and that's why he saves Jinx?  Will Miranda turn out to be bad or just an innocent casualty?

How do we know Jinx is an agent? I have heard people say it time and time again here but there have been no reports on it on the site.

Also, about the main girl dying and Bond ending up with the secondary girl, don't be surprised if they do it again. Often, repeat writers are indentifiable by things they repeat. We know we have a teaser where Bond fails in his mission, like we had in TWINE, conflict between Bond and M, another alternate MI6 HQ, who knows what else. TSWLM and MR had the same plot; I expect TWINE and DAD to have more than a few things in common.

Could very well be that Miranda is a sacrificial lamb, but I make no claims of certainty.

Dave

Brosnan said in his video interview done during the January press conference, available on RTL:

http://www.rtl.de/me...111_bond_11.rpm

"Halle... she plays Jinx, a spy as well, an agent"

As for the secondary girl being at the end again, I hope not. Of course writers will have silmiliar elements, and in fact all Bond films have similiar elements, just rearranged and differently stressed. But there's no need to repeat what was the weakest point IMO of the last film. And the mold already seems to be broken in that it would seem that Miranda will meet Bond first probably in London before Cuba. We didn't meet X-Mas until half the film was over.

Yes Rosamund Pike is a very good actress, and no Denise Richards, but when the main girl dies and we get the secondary girl at the the end as in TWINE and YOLT it's anti-climactic, she usually feels like an after thought, a toss in. Better to not have any secondary girl at the end like OHMSS.

[ray t]

xenobia has too much time on her hands



all that speculation is making my head hurt.

let's just wait till november. then, my dear Xenobia, i'll come down and take you out to see the movie followed by some chat over drinks.

[Jim]

Miranda Frost would appear to have a target tattooed upon her forehead. Perhaps Bond kills her, maybe accidentally. Perhaps she commits suicide.

That'd give Mr Brosnan the opportunity to "do acting"

On second thoughts, best keep him away from that. Perhaps she's eaten by...oh I don't know, a wasp.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Xen,

I believe that Bond first encounters Jinx in Cuba. According to someone who read The Daily Mail (too bad it's not online) she starts off planning to kill him but soon succumbs to his charms. Why we don't know, but we do know she's an agent for another country (most likely the U.S.). Does maybe her boss Falco tell her Bond has to be eliminated, that he was turned when he was in N. Korea?

So is she bad at first or just his nemesis, there's a difference. None the less she supposedly eventually warms to him. Bond saves her according to news in Iceland as the Ice Palace destructs.

I also think from all the filming details, Jinx in Cuba, Jinx in Iceland, etc that she's evidently the the bond girl with the most screentime. EON didn't pay her $4 mil to be the secondary Bond girl. (especilaly now that she has that Oscar)

And after TWINE where the main girl turned out to be bad after seeming to be good, and had the majority of airtime, only for Bond to wind up with the secondary girl, I sincerely doubt that DAD will wind up the same way.

If there's a sacrificial lamb it will be Miranda. Now that question is where exactly does Miranda fit in? Does Bond meet her first in England pre Cuba? Do they cross blades then? Does he then meet Jinx? Do we then wonder who is good and who is bad? Does he find out in Iceland and that's why he saves Jinx? Will Miranda turn out to be bad or just an innocent casualty?

Like you said, many things to ponder, and hopefully spoilers will save me from myself and I'll be surprised when I watch the film in November. ;-)

MBE

[DavidFries]

Xenobia (16 Apr, 2002 06:09 a.m.)edited:
I think one of these women -- Jinx or Miranda -- starts off bad, but sides with James' in the end, only to die for that.

I like that idea. I see Bond at the end with Jinx though. Pike just looks like a sacrificial lamb doesn't she? Plus, with all the money and hype Eon has stirred up for Halle Berry, I don't think they'd kill her off.

Unless the go the OHMSS route..........

[Xenobia]

ray t (16 Apr, 2002 07:34 p.m.):
xenobia has too much time on her hands



all that speculation is making my head hurt.

let's just wait till november. then, my dear Xenobia,  i'll come down and take you out to see the movie followed by some chat over drinks.

Alas, if I didn't know that you were otherwise engaged, I would say yes. ;-)

Maybe next life time!

-- Xenobia

[White Persian]

Might the reason that we've not seen much of Rosamund Pike be that most of her scenes are with Toby Stephens?

Since she started out as Gala Brand, it's reasonable to assume that she has an equivalent part to her literary forebear - as a "plant" in the villain's organization. Therefore her scenes will tend to be with the villain rather than on location with Bond.

We've been told that her character is a former Olympic fencer, and also that Graves has ambitions to be a champion with the foils. I wonder whether Frost's cover might be as Graves's fencing coach, and that, when 'sacrificial lamb' time comes, the pupil will skewer the teacher when he discovers she's a spy.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

[quote]Xenobia (17 Apr, 2002 04:04 a.m.):
[quote]Mourning Becomes Electra (17 Apr, 2002 12:40 a.m.):
[quote]rubixcub (16 Apr, 2002 11:56 p.m.):
[quote]Mourning Becomes Electra (16 Apr, 2002 06:35 a.m.):
Better to not have any secondary girl at the end like OHMSS.[/quote]

But I think what most folks are afraid of is an OHMSS / DAF set up where in the pretitles we see Bond bent on revenge, and then all that is lost in the rest of the movie.

We don't know how much Rosamund will do now that they are back at Pinewood. For all we know, HB's parts took so long to film because they involved more complex stunts than RP's work. RP may not be paid as much as HB because she is not as well known, but she may wind up with as much time as HB. We just don't know.

I think both women are agents but for whom will be the great surprise of the movie.

-- Xenobia[/quote]

I really don't think Pike will have as large a part as Berry, and frankly I'd rather she didn't, so maybe that's clouding my opinion. She may be a mature looking and sounding 23 yr old, but she's still only 23, and this is her first film. She's more than fine for a secondary girl but not the main one. I'd rather see Brosnan paired with Berry for the majority of the film, and at the end of the film.

Besides my prefernces, Berry has been shooting since the beginning of Feb, her character has been placed at the pivotal Iceland & Cuba locations and she's also filmed with Brosnan at the airbase in England, and she's been at Pinewood as well. And let's face it she's the much bigger draw, if you were MGM and EON who would you cast and promote in the larger part? And she had Oscar buzz before she was cast, so her new prominance was not unlooked for, and even without the Oscar she's just a much bigger star. And they didn't pay her that unprecedented Bond girl salary for her to split equal time with someone who's probably getting paid a 1/10th of that.

So Jinx may die at the end, she may turn out to be bad or the sacrficial lamb, but I'd make a bet that she won't be splitting equal screen time with Pike.

[Xenobia]

MBE...

True, HB has a great deal more buzz than RP, but RP has done a lot of work that has been well received in the UK and here in the States. (She just did a movie about the Mitford Girls that did very well on PBS.)

Now....were the roles probably better distributed before the oscar buzz? Yes. Will RP wind up the secondary girl? Yes, but not that secondary, much like Christmas wasn't *that" secondary.

Will HB die at the end of the movie? There is just no way to know. It all depends on if she wants to committ to another Bond movie. She may have been willing before the Oscar...but not now.

Will RP die at the end of the movie? Yup. I'd lay money that she is the dead Bond girl. That being said, I wouldn't lay money down on HB coming back...that is too close to call.

-- Xenobia

[scaramanga]

The way that I see it is that Miranda Frost will probably only appear in Iceland as an MI6 agent who is working undrcover as Grave's secretary. My take is that she is the one who "arranges" Bond's invitation to Grave's party at the ice palace. Think a type of Gala Brand character in Moonraker. When Jinx arrives on the scene, all hell breaks loose and Frost's identity is discovered and she is killed in the confusion while Bond and Jinx manage to escape.
As for Jinx, I'm pretty sure that she will be the main Bond girl. She's an agent too, so we've been told, so I'm guessing that she is a CIA agent who is investigating rogue NSA agent Damian Falco's involvement with Colonel Moon/Gustav Graves. Bond might dub her "Jinx" because she is always comprimising the mission by getting caught or something like that (we know from what we've heard that Bond has to rescue her a few times!)

[Xenobia]

[quote]Mourning Becomes Electra (17 Apr, 2002 12:40 a.m.):
[quote]rubixcub (16 Apr, 2002 11:56 p.m.):
[quote]Mourning Becomes Electra (16 Apr, 2002 06:35 a.m.):
Better to not have any secondary girl at the end like OHMSS.[/quote]

But I think what most folks are afraid of is an OHMSS / DAF set up where in the pretitles we see Bond bent on revenge, and then all that is lost in the rest of the movie.

We don't know how much Rosamund will do now that they are back at Pinewood. For all we know, HB's parts took so long to film because they involved more complex stunts than RP's work. RP may not be paid as much as HB because she is not as well known, but she may wind up with as much time as HB. We just don't know.

I think both women are agents but for whom will be the great surprise of the movie.

-- Xenobia