67 replies to this topic

[jamie wilkins]

After reading Martinis, Girls and Guns. Sir John Morgan reveals details of a Bond novel that Ian Fleming was planning to write involving the Macumba cult and a villain Kaiser set in the African jungle. It sounds as if it would have been better than TMWTGG. What do you think?

[Mister Asterix]

Sounds interesting, any more details?

[Jim]

One wonders where "Just Another Kill" is going.

[Roebuck]

Set somewhere down the Amazon, wasn't it? A villain named Kaiser operates out of a Manganese mine. The place is so isolated that the only way to get equipment and people in is by air. Morgan doesn't give any details of Kaiser's scheme, but does hint at the return of Blofeld.

[zencat]

Are we talking about PER FINE OUNCE here? This was a Bond book written by Geoffrey Jenkins for Glidrose in 1966. It was set in Africa. A popular rumor has it that it was written from an outline by Fleming. For whatever reason, Glidrose didn't publish the book.

I might have to get this Martini, Guns and Girls book. Any more details, Jamie?

[PaulZ108]

Interesting. I'm always fascinated by anything Bond that was planned but never came about. I sometimes have dreams of some old almost completed draft discovered under some floorboards in Goldeneye and being published and filmed.

[Blue Eyes]

I might have to get this Martini, Guns and Girls book. Any more details, Jamie?

It does have further details, which I can't remember off hand. I believe the book reveals other details, such as who gave Fleming the initial idea and whom he discussed it with.

[Roebuck]

The only other significant detail I can remember from the Sterling and Morecambe book is that Fleming asked Sir John to collect as much info on Macumba as he could while he was stationed in Brazil. Fleming from time to time used Morgan's Foreign Office connections to gather background about whatever country Bond's next adventure would be set in.

[Blue Eyes]

Out of interest Roebuck and Bryce, what made you buy the book?

[General Koskov]

Don't like the idea of the return of Blofeld: sounds like Gardner's awful idea of SPECTRE coming back.

The cult idea sounds good though. I always felt LALD's voodoo idea was underused (the film actually improved on this).

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
Out of interest Roebuck and Bryce, what made you buy the book?

It was a Christmas present from my mother in law. It was one of those books I'd looked at and thought I might pick up in soft cover. The hardback price is about two thirds the list price of 'Legacy' and, frankly, most of the ground the authors cover has been well ploughed before. There are also a few careless mistakes (describing the plot of the film OHMSS when discussing the novel). On the other hand it is great if you're new to Bond and want to get up to speed on stuff like McClory's legal action.

[Truman-Lodge]

How would Blofeld return, wasn't he choked and blown up?

[Fraternal]

No, that was the 'wheelchair man'

[General Koskov]

Originally posted by Truman-Lodge
How would Blofeld return, wasn't he choked and blown up?

I was thinking the same thing. Fleming doesn't seem like the sort of writer who would be so lazy as to resurrect a dead character rather than creating a new one.

And can anyone imagine Blofeld controlling a cult? Sounds like something Dr Evil would try:

CULT PRIEST: Can I drink Mr Bond's blood, Herr Blofeld?  It's sort of my thing...

BLOFELD: How about: NO! You crazy Macumba bastard!

[jamie wilkins]

Geoffrey Jenkins convinced Gildrose that he had worked on a smuggling plot with Ian Fleming in 1959 and expanded on this plot after Colonel Sun was released and submitted it to Gildrose. According to THE BOND FILES, PER FINE OUNCE was set in south Africa and was about smuggling and a secret spy route through the magical lake of Funduzzi. Gildrose decided not to publish manuscript. Fleming and Jenkins could have worked on a plot of sumggling in South Africa but none of the plot lines match apart from the African location. Jenkins plot concerns gold, spies and magical lakes while flemings is more about voodoo and Kaiser the villain. I think they are two differnt stories. I would have liked to read both! Perhaps Ray Benson could work on it!

[Truman-Lodge]

Originally posted by Fraternal
No, that was the 'wheelchair man'

My mistake. I didn't realize I was reading a movie.

Anyway how did they find out about this new story? Was it in Fleming's notebook? I hope they publish the notebook one day

[jamie wilkins]

flemings step son in law or something like that provided fleming with the information about the cult and i presume fleming told him about his ideas.

[kevrichardson]

I have read reports based on rumors. That Kingsley Amis aka , Robert Markham . wrote Colonel Sun based on a outline from Fleming . IS this true or false. I never read that Fleming outlined his Bond novels. I thought ,after reading Pearson and others that he just sat at the typewriter and just started to "write" for several hours . Stop and take lunch and a drink, return to correct that days work . And then start anew in the morning .

[zencat]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
I have read reports based on rumors.  That Kingsley Amis aka , Robert Markham . wrote Colonel Sun based on a outline from Fleming . IS this true or false.

I've heard from numerous sources (including Amis himself) that this is false.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by General Koskov
Don't like the idea of the return of Blofeld: sounds like Gardner's awful idea of SPECTRE coming back.
The cult idea sounds good though.  I always felt LALD's voodoo idea was underused (the film actually improved on this).

What was awful about the return of SPECTRE in the Gardner novels . I enjoyed "For Special Services"(1982) . Especially the opening on the airplane and it's highly effective use of irony . It made go down as a landmark of Gardner's Bond novels. You are right about LALD the novel and the film . This i whole heartly agree.

[General Koskov]

I didn't mind Gardner's SPECTRE books--in fact, they were some of his best. But I just don't like the idea of ressurecting a villain/organisation when other books have told us that he/it are dead/gone. SPECTRE was destroyed even before OHMSS.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by General Koskov
I didn't mind Gardner's SPECTRE books--in fact, they were some of his best.  But I just don't like the idea of ressurecting a villain/organisation when other books have told us that he/it are dead/gone.  SPECTRE was destroyed even before OHMSS.

I do not recall reading that SPECTRE was destroyed before "OHMSS" . "YOLT" the novel , yes i might buy into that theory . You must have some insight that i don't. PLease enlighten me.

[kevrichardson]

One more Question what is the planned novel entitled "Per Fine Ounce" . I read that Ian Fleming set out to write a Bond set in South Africa . Does any one know more about it.

[Dr Noah]

"I do not recall reading that SPECTRE was destroyed before "OHMSS"

At several points during the book, Bond ponders whether Blofield has reformed SPECTRE, the implication I got was that after the failure of "Operation Thunderball" the organisation was disbanded.

[1q2w3e4r]

Yeah Bond does ponder if Blofeld's resurected SPECTRE or set up a new organisation in it's place with the same infastructure of 3 russians, 3 mafioso etc. He does it quite a few actually. Don't think he really makes any conclusions, and I guess he doesn't worry about it and thinks its pretty much the same animal.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
"I do not recall reading that SPECTRE was destroyed before "OHMSS"
At several points during the book, Bond ponders whether Blofield has reformed SPECTRE, the implication I got was that after the failure of "Operation Thunderball" the organisation was disbanded.

IT's taken for granted that SPECTRE is by in business by the time of OHMSS . Remember in the novel "TSWLM" , Bond was on the hunt for Blofeld . It was just a small part of the novel . He was on his why to Washington DC for a briefing . And the "Thunderball" operation was still fresh. In OHMSS Bond just picks up the hunt.

[ChandlerBing]

After reading those books, I have come to the conclusion that they just don't make them like they used to.

[KHergerscheimer]

A few bits from recollection:

1. Fleming had nothing to do at all with Colonel Sun - it 100% Amis.

2. Amis had planned a second Bond novel to be set in Honduras but Glidrose cancled due to Ann Fleming's displeasure with Amis and his political views.

3. I think it's in Pearson's biography that he mentions looking at Fleming's notebook and seeing some ideas and sentences that might have turned into a later Bond book. I believe one of the titles was "My Enemy's Enemy" and there was bit about Bond playing cards against a villain - can't remember his name at the moment!

4. First time I've heard about Kaiser and his jungle scheme...sounds great.

I'm sure if the Fleming notebook is ever published there will be a lot of very interesting notes that could have found there way into future books.

[kevrichardson]

Anne Fleming did not reject the royality payments ? I just re-read the original version of John Pearson bio of Fleming . Plus Andrew Lycett never saw that stuff about later novels mention . With the exception of the Africa jazz .

[glidrose]

After reading Martinis, Girls and Guns. Sir John Morgan reveals details of a Bond novel that Ian Fleming was planning to write involving the Macumba cult and a villain Kaiser set in the African jungle.

I never believed this. There's compelling evidence that Fleming was fed up and had no more interest writing Bond.