29 replies to this topic

[00Evan]

To be perfectly frank, there is no way that Wilson and Broccoli can ever top DAD in terms of action, stunts and ridiculousness (but in a good way). So, why not, as so many have suggested, take the story back to the basics, a la For You Eyes Only, OHMSS, FRWL. What I want to know is what everybody thinks would be a good plot for Bond 21. I have my own ideas, but for now, what does everyone else think?

[manitou007]

It might be a good idea, but then the film might look a bit dull compared to its predecessor.

TSWLM and Moonraker were back to back fantasy Bond films, and the only thing that didn't work is the director of Moonraker decided to go all Man With The Golden Gun on us and play everything for laughs.

Besides, many things from DAD actually have basis in reality. The North Korean situation is tense as ever, the US military have been considering a giant space gun (and there's also a proposal to build a giant mirror in space to help control global warming), and it was announced on the UK news that face transplants were now theoretically possible (everyone was thinking about a Face/Off like situation though).

I would think that it would be best to have another fantasy Bond, and then bring it down from there.

Something in space wouldn't go amiss, although it would have to be a different plot than an evil genius using gas to take over the world.

[zencat]

I'm against the "back to basics" movement. I really don't want another FYEO or FRWL, and I don't think the vast majority of the general audience wants this either. DAD is a mega-hit because it FINALLY gave the general audience a Bond movie THEY wanted, and not a self-conscious attempt to do a "realistic" James Bond film for, who?, the critics?, Connery fans? (And why does everyone assume Connery's films where "realistic". Have you watched Dr. No or Goldfinger lately? In the '60s those movies were as SciFi as DAD.) Frankly, I don't think the

[Tim007]

I disagree, zen. Me for example, I would love another The Living Daylights or Licence to Kill. And such a movie would be successful, no question, because it is a Bond movie. I support 00Evan.

[JimmyBond]

Not taking sides here, I could go both ways. I'd love a down to Earth FRWL type film. Hell, if they want to do a FRWL type film, I say strip down the action to the teaser, middle of film, and end, a good story does'nt need action to emphasize it.

On the other hand, I've always been a fan of the over the top outlandish Bond films as well, so if Bond21 is like DAD, only more crazy, than I say go for it.

[Colonel Moon]

I want another fantasy Bond movie

[JimmyBond]

Just like DAD has split the fans, it seems we're split on what we want the next Bond to be. It would be interesting to have a poll on CBn to see how many people want a "realistic" Bond film, and how many want a "fantasy Bond film"

[Felix_Leiter]

Please no fantasy!!! Let's grow up shall we? Come on, back to the nitty gritty, the realism, the emotions. I would love to see a bond film that is ultra-realistic!

[zencat]

Originally posted by JimmyBond
Just like DAD has split the fans, it seems we're split on what we want the next Bond to be. It would be interesting to have a poll on CBn to see how many people want a "realistic" Bond film, and how many want a "fantasy Bond film"

That's a good idea.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Felix_Leiter
Please no fantasy!!! Let's grow up shall we? Come on, back to the nitty gritty, the realism, the emotions. I would love to see a bond film that is ultra-realistic!

They did that. It was called Licence To Kill and it almost sank the franchise. And when were Bond movies ever gritty and realistic? Have you watched Dr. No lately? The fantasy element was what set the Bond films apart in the very beginning, and it's the fantasy element that makes them work today.

And I don't know why we keep saying the films need to go "back" to FRWL. FRWL was NOT the film that established the mega-successful Bond formula and style. It was Goldfinger. Talk about fantasy.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Felix_Leiter
Please no fantasy!!! Let's grow up shall we? Come on, back to the nitty gritty, the realism, the emotions. I would love to see a bond film that is ultra-realistic!

Gritty & real? In License to Kill he water skis from a seaplane using a spear gun. And The Living Daylights, though I like a lot about it, is sometimes a snorefest.

Everyone stop hoping for a "down-to-earth" film, because it will never happen.

[Harmsway]

I think The World Is Not Enough is about as down-to-earth as Bond should get these days. Other than that, no, I want a semi-epic Bond film. I don't want DAD II or another Moonraker, but I wouldn't mind something like a sold TND style Bond where we get over the top with a bit of seriousness mixed in.

Zencat, I disagree about DN and GF being as sci-fi as you make it out to be. They really aren't on DAD's level. DN, for the most part, was only sci-fi for the finale, and the rest of it was extremely realistic and low key. Same with GF, which though perhaps a little sci-fi with the laser, was never really unrealistic to the point of unbelievability (even in the 1960s), which is where I thought DAD went.

[White Tuxedo]

The film I'm imagining would be just right for me. It's bascially in between. It's nothing like Moonraker, but it's not on the earth's surface either. I think what works best is not total fantasy or total realism, but a healthy balance. It shouldn't be Star Wars, but it shouldn't be able to really happen either.

[General Koskov]

FYEO was jam-packed with chase after chase. Not sure how 'gritty realism' applies to that.

PS. DAD ripped off TLD's ending, so one cannot say they want another DAD, and not another TLD.

[SeanValen00V]

Put Die Another Day in the summer of 89 with Batman, Lethal Weapon 2, Rambo 3, Indiana Jones 3 and other films and don't promote it well like they did with LTK, I doubt it would hold its own, Batman was on my mind in 1989 and I'm Bond fan, it took the punishment for following films to be released in the fall, so lets stop LTK almost sank the fanichise, it did great overseas, and was unlucky in the summer of 89 in US, so what, the legal bickering was the delay. LTK has a strong fan base of fans who are just discovering it, I'm not saying Bond 21 should be exactly like it, but it should not be dimissed because it was poorely marketed and thrown into the biggest summer any Bond film has been in, and was still profitable world wide, thats a poor defence for anyone who using it not to lend LTK ideas for realism.

Bond films have mixed it up, if its all fantasy, it would alienate other purists, the thing is though, fantasy or real, flemming's Bond from the books is the root, and if Bond 21 is more stronger with the root of flemming so be it, it's the heart of Bond. Bond is likely to be profitable, but realism purism flemming should not be ignored, TWINE done great business, the film could of been better for me, but still liked it, wasn't fantasy, there is room to always be faithful to Bonds roots, TWINE did very well to prove it, and that film isn't even my favorite of the realism type Bonds, still like it, shows the position Pierce is in, and the producers, both approaches work.

[Adam]

Originally posted by General Koskov
FYEO was jam-packed with chase after chase.  Not sure how 'gritty realism' applies to that.

Whoa I was JUST about to say that...thanks for pointing it out...just b/c he pushes a guy off a cliff and Melina wants to avenge her parents' death doesn't make it some deep, realistic movie...though it's still one of my favorites

[zencat]

Where does OCTOPUSSY fit into this? OP is one of my all time favorite Bond films--but is it a back to basics Bond or a fantasy Bond? It's hard to tell. Certainly there's nothing sci-fi in OP, yet the setting and the characters seem to launch it into the realm of the fantastic. Seems like OP got the mix just right. Maybe Bond 21 should be another OP? Just a thought.

[Felix_Leiter]

Fantasy, realism, to each his own. I don't even care anymore. I mean it's not like I have any say in the matter.

[ChandlerBing]

Remember the days when Connery was in a tight spot slugging it out with 4 or 5 guys? Granted, Brosnan did that in the soundproof studio in Tomorrow Never Dies, but he needs to do that more often. It's more exciting to see Bond beat the **** out of these guys then to use an Uzi and wipe them out at the drop of a hat. Let's see that.

AND LOSE THE TERRIBLE CGI! IF LUCAS CAN'T GET THE KINKS OUT, WHAT MAKES MGM AND EON THINK THAT THEY CAN?

[BONDFINESSE 007]

its just me, but i dont want realism i can get that on the news on cnn, i watch bond for pure fantasy, to escape for two hours, to watch a hero do the most wild and crazy things you can think of. thats what he is about...LTK put me right to sleep, thats not the bond i want

[General Koskov]

I agree with the 'more fistfights' camp. Although Bond wasn't as machinegun-crazy as he was in TND, that stupid fight with Mr Kil didn't cut it.

And as for fantasy, I don't think that DAD, or any Bond, was fantasy. For DAD, I merely objected to the snore-fest of action. So actually, I 'escaped' and 'fantasised' more with LTK and FRWL than I did with DAD.

[zencat]

You know, this conversation, as good as it is, may be irrelevant. DAD is making SOOOOOO much money SOOOOOO fast that I have a feeling MGM will say to Eon, "Just make another one like Die Another Day. Don't change a thing!"

You can't argue with success.

[manitou007]

I think that the fantasy Bond movie will be with us for a while. Expect elaborate plots involving nuclear bombs to be about for a while as well, given the current worry about WMD...

I liked LTK. I don't think it should be the direction the entire series should take, but every so often I think the series needs a "unique" film so to speak, to give the audience a breather from "evil genius wants to destroy/take over world using doomsday machine/giant laser/nuclear weapon".

The next one should be a fantasy Bond, but after that Bond 22 should be another "unique" film to give us something different.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by manitou007
I liked LTK. I don't think it should be the direction the entire series should take, but every so often I think the series needs a "unique" film so to speak, to give the audience a breather from "evil genius wants to destroy/take over world using doomsday machine/giant laser/nuclear weapon".

I agree entirely, and we are guaranteed to get another "unique" film at some point. The 40-year history of the Bond films shows that things go in cycles, and that there is a comparatively down-to-earth entry every few years.

I use the word "comparatively" because, for all this talk of "back to basics", even the likes of FOR YOUR EYES ONLY and LICENCE TO KILL are by any yardstick big-budget escapist action movies with absurd stunts and only the most perfunctory of nodding acquaintances with "realism".

[jokemaster]

problem with this thread is that everyone is posting their dream bond movie, which probably wont happen

[jim74454]

I would love to see Bond 21 be more focused on Pierce. It is his last one, and it would be cool to focus alot on Bond again, rather than many scenes with other characters. Like Terrence Young said of Dr. No...the main ingredients were Sean Connery, Sean Connery, and Sean Connery. I think it would be cool to see more of Pierce. Also as in Dr. No, and in some other ones, I would like to see Bond do more sluthing around, where he doesn't know right away who the enemy is, but has to do real reaserch....kinda like a mystery mabye, but not to the extent where it isn't more Sherlock Holmesish than Bondish.

I also thought that John Gardner's For Special Services would make a great movie. I really like the airplane scene in the begining....I mean it is SCREAMING to be a movie. The really sad thing is is that it contains SPECTRE and that a-hole geezer McClory would never let it happen.

[rubixcub]

I'd like to see the next one toned down a bit. The dialogue was laughable at points (in a bad way) and the characters under-developed.

I think my main concern is the climax; we haven't had a really good one in a long time. That is, one that has satisfied everybody (or nearly so). GE's climax was too wishy-washy. TND's climax was more in the style of older ones (to its credit) but relied to heavily on streams of gunfire. TWINE's climax was dull. DAD's climax was better than TWINE's, but IMO it kind of paled in comparison to the other action sequences.

What needs to happen is for the climax to be bigger than the other action scenes, so it provides a satisfying resolution and actually feels like it goes somewhere and builds to something. Perhaps they should rely more on human action in the next one instead of hi-tech and pyrotechnic action. More spying, intrigue, and hand-to-hand combat, fewer explosion-studded sequences. Save them for the end as much as possible.

I'd like to see Bond's intelligence community fleshed out more in the next one. Bring back Wade (but keep him in the style of GE, not TND), heck maybe even sneak in David Hedison as Felix Leiter, now a CIA desk man. I can see it now, two men bring Bond in at gunpoint, telling him that "an old friend wants to give you his regards" or something to that effect, and lo and behold, it's Felix! Felix sends Wade to back up 007 as well as a female agent (this installment's sacrificial lamb) while at the same time having some friction with Falco. Also, please EON, do more with Robinson and Moneypenny. Not to the Judi Dench in TWINE extreme, but at least give 'em something more to work with.

If it is set in the U.S., Bond can go from place to place a la FRWL, tailing his foe in this case.

That's all I got for ya tonight.

Dave

[manitou007]

Originally posted by jim74454
I would love to see Bond 21 be more focused on Pierce. It is his last one, and it would be cool to focus alot on Bond again, rather than many scenes with other characters. Like Terrence Young said of Dr. No...the main ingredients were Sean Connery, Sean Connery, and Sean Connery. I think it would be cool to see more of Pierce.

I don't know if Bond 21 will be Brosnan's last. He's said in interviews before that he wouldn't mind doing a sixth, and by the sounds of his experience making DAD, it sounds as if he enjoys playing the character. It would be nice to give him something a bit more to do than press buttons on gadgets all the time though, as although DAD was one of my favorite Bond films, the enjoyable car chase was spoiled a bit by the fact that Bond seemed to have all he needs there right in front of him in the form of gadgets, and didn't really seem to think that much except press buttons (although the ejector seat idea seemed very funny to me for some strange reason)

Generally, the next film should give him something a bit different to do. Although it seems that most don't seem to like LTK, one of the things I felt was good about that film was that his enemy actually was someone he had a personal vendetta against, rather than some evil billionaire that he's assigned to investigate.

It always seems in some of the films that Bond ends up with a grudge against the bad guy because of something they do during his assignment, such as killing an old flame or ally.

One way of doing it would be giving Bond an enemy that he would actually want to go after rather than being assigned to kill, as in LTK. For example, Bond could cripple a bad guy during the pre credits sequence, and then after the titles they could return and wreak their revenge, causing Bond to feel responsible for the guy's actions by not finishing the guy off when he had the chance and go after him. Now that would be interesting...

[jim74454]

Hey manitou007, I am also a LTK fan! I think it would be cool if, like LTK, Bond, istead of being a known enemy to the antagonist, actually almost befriended him to get the inside scoop on his operation and only become an enemy to the bad guy at the end of the movie....kinda like Bond and Sanchez.

[SeanValen00V]

Originally posted by jim74454
Hey manitou007, I am also a LTK fan! I think it would be cool if, like LTK, Bond, istead of being a known enemy to the antagonist, actually almost befriended him to get the inside scoop on his operation and only become an enemy to the bad guy at the end of the movie....kinda like Bond and Sanchez.

Whats so cool about LTK that makes it timeless, is Bond using his brains instead of too much tecnology, turning Sanchez against Crest etc, killing his own men. Like Michael J Wilson pointed out, like the old samurai movie, the hero comes into town, but does not kill anyone, does he need too, what other options are there, whats more useful for a lone agent against his empire, great storytelling. Bond 21 needs great storytelling involving Bond.