654 replies to this topic

[deth]

I think this thread could have made it to the 20-year anniversary

[zencat]

My legacy...

It wasn't my idea or wish to close this thread. I'm sad to see it go. There have been times when I considered closing it myself when it's popped back up and seemed a little embarrassing, but then I would re-read my original post and decided it still works as a review of DAD and also as an honest expression of what it's like to be a Bond super fan; to love Bond so much that every new movie turns you back into a 10 year old watching your first -- that every Bond really is "THE BEST BOND EVER!". I really did feel that way on that night in 2002. (I actually felt it again three weeks ago watching Skyfall.) So I wanted to share my nerd joy in a safe place. And CBn was then, and still is, the best place for Bond fans to share their passion.

[Major Tallon]

Beautifully said, Zencat. The review was lovingly written, which is why those of us who've read it repeatedly will miss it so much. It's a classic!

[SecretAgentFan]

It will still be available to read, Major. As it should be, as a cornerstone of all reviews on this board.

I´d love to read a Zencat review on SKYFALL, by the way...

[ggl]

My legacy...

what it's like to be a Bond super fan; to love Bond so much that every new movie turns you back into a 10 year old watching your first -- that every Bond really is "THE BEST BOND EVER!".

DAD probably is not in my TOP 10. This post is.

Brilliant words, Zencat.

[Double-0-Seven]

It really is a great review - you're right, every Bond film is always "the best Bond film ever!" when it comes out. I was actually ten years old when Die Another Day came out and I thought it was brilliant. Nowadays, not so much, but the ten year old inside of me still appreciates how I felt that night in the theatre. I had begun collecting Bond soundtracks at that point and had grown accustomed to David Arnold's gun barrel cue (TND/TWINE) as being his own stamp on the series. Words cannot describe the excitement I felt when his classic gun barrel cue hit and that bullet flew right at the screen. Bond magic at that time. I was thrilled!

I dare say Zencat, you should copy this review verbatim and swap the DAD references for Skyfall.

I can envision it now: Zencat's Skyfall review: "THE BEST BOND MOVIE EVER?"

[Athena007]

Since no forum rules have been broken in this thread... it has been decided that the thread will remain open, because somewhere on the internet there should be a safe place to adore Die Another Day.

[DaveBond21]

Where does my son go for his DAD-based discussion?

Maybe my son "Bencat" wlll have to create his own Die Another Day Greatest Bond Movie Ever thread. Unless the Fun Police kill that too....

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[Simon]

I did wonder why a thread that hadn't broken rules had to specifically be closed - to be frank, there have been many more thread candidates for mediocrity and closure than this one.
(Which is not to say I find this thread mediocre on any account)

[B5Erik]

The best Bond films - the ones that hold up better over time - are the ones more closely related to the original Fleming Bond. Licence To Kill (even though it was an original story it was very Fleming-esque) could be from today. It isn't dated (not much anyway), even the cold war stories of From Russia With Love and For Your Eyes only don't LOOK as dated as the epics YOLT, TSWLM, and MR.

The larger the scale of the Bond film, the sooner it becomes dated.

And who says that the mass audience won't go for a more realistic Bond film? For Your Eyes Only did very well at the box office, as did The Living Daylights. Licence To Kill tanked in the U.S. for a multitude of reasons (competition, VERY POOR marketing, and just apathy after 15 or so prior Bond films in rapid succession), but it still scored better with test audiences than any other Bond film had.

Goldeneye was big, but not ridiculously so - DAD is RIDICULOUSLY big.

They can go TOO FAR in trying to create the EPIC Bond movie, and with DAD, IMO they did. WAY too far.

The thing is, they can have a big movie with lots of action, but still keep it grounded in reality. Licence To Kill had plenty of action, as did The Living Daylights.

Hell, you don't NEED a Bond movie any bigger than Goldeneye to win over the "mass" audience - but with Die Another Day they took it so far beyond the scale and volume of Goldeneye that it became absurd.

They CAN balance the need to win over the mass audience while still pleasing the Bond die-hards. They did that nearly perfectly with Goldeneye. They almost did it with TWINE (the plot was a bit too convoluted), and I think that they came closer (MUCH closer) with Tomorrow Never Dies than with Die Another Day.

By completely discounting the group of fans that wants a smaller scale Bond EON risks losing a core audience for Bond. Without us DAD only does $35 million in its opening weekend in the U.S. (if that much). Now, they would need to do another movie this large to turn this core group off, but if they do they will not only be losing box office, but video sales, etc. Can they make up for it with the "mass" audience? Maybe - but that's a big risk.

BALANCE - that's all I ask. Keep the action real. REAL stuntpeople doing REAL stunts. And don't have aircraft (or anything else) blatantly breaking the laws of physics (bending the laws of physics is what Bond is all about - but not breaking them). And make sure that Bond has some motivation - something for the actor playing Bond to latch on to. I loved Bond (the character) in TLD, LTK, GE, and TWINE - he was a real person (a real person in unreal circumstances, with unreal training and abilities, but a real person nonetheless).

That's not too much to ask for, is it?

Ten years later and I still feel that way. I could have written most of that last week.

DAD has some good moments, but overall it was (and still is) a very disappointing movie for me. I think it's unfortunate that Brosnan was sent out with DAD rather than a movie like GE, TND, or even TWINE. He's a good enough actor that he could have handled some of the more serious character stuff like we saw in movies like CR and Skyfall while still bringing that smooth, suave character to the screen. Brosnan was a damned good Bond.

[Double-0-Seven]

Three cheers for this thread! I admit to being a little confused as to why it had to be closed if it was going to get pinned anyways - there's been quite a bit of good discussion here! Nice to see it will remain open. It's the DB5 of CBn - a true classic.

[zencat]

Since no forum rules have been broken in this thread... it has been decided that the thread will remain open, because somewhere on the internet there should be a safe place to adore Die Another Day.

Yay. Thank you, Athena. The undying DAD thread pulls off yet another surprise resurrection!

DAD is still my second favorite Brosnan Bond. Really, the only thing that bothers me about DAD is the dialogue. I also now enjoy it as the last of a kind, the last BIG (even a bit silly) Bond in the tradition of Moonraker, YOLT, and AVTAK. It's interesting how DAD has become the new Moonraker as the new best example of how the series crossed the line from improbable to impossible.

P&W talk about DAD in The Empire Podcast, which is a must listen (search "The Empire Podcast" on iTunes. The episode is "Skyfall Writers Spoiler Podcast - Neal Purvis And Robert Wade" posted on 11/9/12). They talk about how they think the invisible car went wrong, etc. It's good stuff.

Thanks again for the breath of life, Athena.

[Dustin]

"...you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave..."

Edited by Dustin, 24 November 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[quantumofsolace]

P&W talk about DAD in The Empire Podcast, which is a must listen (search "The Empire Podcast" on iTunes. The episode is "Skyfall Writers Spoiler Podcast - Neal Purvis And Robert Wade" posted on 11/9/12). They talk about how they think the invisible car went wrong, etc. It's good stuff.

http://soundcloud.co...writers-spoiler

Edited by quantumofsolace, 24 November 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Yay. Thank you, Athena. The undying DAD thread pulls off yet another surprise resurrection!

This thread has turned it into a hobby!

[Athena007]

This thread is like the "Vanish" ...it disappears and then appears again right in front of your face.

[Dustin]

And you can hide behind it from Graves' goons...

[SecretAgentFan]

"We wanted it to be a 3 or 4 and Lee went for 11."

Wonderful quote from P & W.

Still love DAD. And this thread.

[glidrose]

Let it go, man. Nothing beautiful lasts forever.

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Since no forum rules have been broken in this thread... it has been decided that the thread will remain open, because somewhere on the internet there should be a safe place to adore Die Another Day.

You're the best.

Still a pretty good film too.

[S K Y F A L L]

And you can hide behind it from Graves' goons...

LOL I never noticed that before.

[DaveBond21]

 

Since no forum rules have been broken in this thread... it has been decided that the thread will remain open, because somewhere on the internet there should be a safe place to adore Die Another Day.

They talk about how they think the invisible car went wrong, etc. It's good stuff.

Thanks again for the breath of life, Athena.

 

 

It's interesting because they had an invisible car, and then made the invisibility malfunction constantly so that we could see the car.

 

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[Colossus]

Good discsuuion.

[Judo chop]

I think one of the most interesting things about DAD is the distinct middle eastern flavor Arnold gives the score during the fight scene aboard the plane.

 

At first I was perplexed.  We aren’t in the Middle East after all.  Neither of the characters on screen hail from anywhere near the area.  They’re nearly polar (or…   er…  what’s the latitudinal version of ‘polar’?) opposites, in fact.   What a bizarre choice.

 

And then it struck me.  It must be intentional!   Yes!   Genius!   When Colonel Moon’s East meets James Bond’s West in a mile high dukaroo, what do you get?    The Middle East of course!!!   If these two guys can’t find a way to compromise, at least the music can.

[Iceskater101]

Die Another Day may be my least favorite Brosnan film, it still had a lot of potential and there were a lot of cool parts, but some parts were just not very good. I still watch this one from time to time.

[Colossus]

I got a "game" friend and basically he goes Brosnan knew his S*** w/ women, and it's not even acting what he's doing around women in this movie but legit, in contrast to Craig who doesn't know squat.

[seawolfnyy]

 

And you can hide behind it from Graves' goons...

LOL I never noticed that before.

 

Yea, that part was an eye roller. That podcast was great. It does reaffirm my belief that what ruined DAD was far more Tamahori than P&W.

[AMC Hornet]

My favorite Brosnan, followed by TND, then GE, then TWINE.

 

Not that I dislike TWINE, but if I'm forced to rank them, that's how they come in.

 

Keep in mind that DAF was my first exposure to 007, as that impressionable 12-year-old we've all been talking about, so it has always been my template for a satisfying romp. Sure, DAD stretches credibility a time or two (or...), and even strays into MR territory on occasion, but at least it knew where it was going, as opposed to TWINE, which was half character drama & half mindless action flick, each constantly at odds with the other.

 

If other fans don't like it, it's not Brosnan's fault for saying the lines, not Tamahori's fault for directing - not even P&W's fault for writing a script that was approved by B&W. Perhaps it's only because there are other, better entries to prefer.

 

I can like DAD and those other entries. I get no joy from hating a Bond film - not even AVTAK, my least favorite - so I'd rather not. DAD gave me what I wanted in 2002, just as TSWLM delivered in 1977 (with that ridiculous car that turns into a submarine - love it!), TLD in 1987 and TND in 1997 (hmm, I'm detecting a trend here). TBH, Skyfall didn't quite tick all the boxes for me - probably because it wasn't quite OTT enough for my tastes.

 

So I like spectacle. Sue me.

[Brett Sinclair]

Although I liked Pierce, was not a huge fan of the Brosnan era. This is definitely my favourite out of the four. A lot of fun!

[AMC Hornet]

Nice to know that Zencat and I are not alone.

[Iceskater101]

Die Another Day had a lot of potential, but it failed. The villain is forgettable, that wave. oh god..