47 replies to this topic

[Simon]

https://www.theguard...hange-hollywood

 

Ever since Winslet's and di Caprio's face supplanting in Titanic,creating twins in Social Network and more face changing for actors' faces over those of the stuntmen, the writing was always on the wall for what has been exemplifed by the above.

 

For me, in the filmworld, this is a topic worthy of abstract discussion.  Is it right?  Should it continue?  Will this subject, in time, be as dated as that of single sex marriage?

 

If Peter Cushing can be brought back to life with strong sounding morality clauses such as, 'We are not doing anything he wouldn't have wanted', then at what point does Connery actually return to the role of Bond? 

 

As if current day actors didn't have enough competition without having also to compete against a resurrection of history.

 

 

[Single-O-Seven]

I've been thinking about this since the late 90s, and have wondered if it might ever come true. Though there is still a bit of tweaking to be done, I thought Peter Cushing's inclusion in Rogue One was effective enough. Perhaps there are moral questions, but it really doesn't bother me to see actors/characters returned to life via CGI, and I would welcome it further if it can be perfected (i.e., if they can get past the "Uncanny Valley" aspects a bit more). Back in '98, I wrote a short story set in the not-too-distant future, and the characters referenced seeing the new Bond film, starring a perfect CGI Connery in his prime. If that dream comes to pass, I'd be happy to see how it works out.

[AMC Hornet]

Perhaps it will become a feature on future videos: 'dream cast' the original film with images from a stable of late actors whose likenesses have been leased out by their descendant$ (or will there be a public domain limitation?).

[sharpshooter]

I think it worked well for Rogue One. Peter Cushing IS Tarkin, and Rogue One was all about flowing almost seamlessly into the original 1977 Star Wars. Making a 2016 film feel as genuine to that spirit as possible. I have no problem with that. I can see this practice continuing in special cases. But I don't see the likes of circa 1964 Sean Connery making a big screen comeback. It's also very expensive to do.

[AMC Hornet]

Not as expensive as hiring the living Connery, then having him badmouth and sue you afterwards.

[Simon]

Staying with Star Wars for now, it is said Fisher has completed her SW VIII work before her death.  Thereby mitigating for now, the need to consider what happens with her role in IX.

 

But now that the precedent has been set, or at least pushed, who's taking bets to say whether she returns for the last SW film in this trilogy?

[sharpshooter]

I predict they save a couple of her scenes and use them for IX. Especially if a rumour about the content of said scenes is true. It'd work out very well indeed.

[Orion]

Lovely idea - equity would STRONGLY disagree. You use an actors likeness - you pay them or, in the case of deceased actors, their estate. That's ok if you're Disney and have the money to pay two actors fees for one role, but for most, it's a needless expense.

[DavidJones]

I think they could announce a new Bond actor this way. Have a 45-second ad in which all the other Bond actors - all young via CGI - are sat around a casino table waiting for the new one to turn up. The new Bond, in the foyer of the casino, gets into a fight with some heavies, dispatches them, and then walks into the casino and settles into a chair. And CGI Connery says, "Glad you could join us."

Edited by DavidJones, 19 January 2017 - 04:28 PM.

[hoagy]

Great idea (intro of new Bond actor) !!!  Would Barry Nelson be seated at the casino table as well as Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan and Craig ?  If so, would Barry be in Black & White ?

[DavidJones]

Great idea (intro of new Bond actor) !!!  Would Barry Nelson be seated at the casino table as well as Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan and Craig ?  If so, would Barry be in Black & White ?

 

I'd imagine he wouldn't be there, as he wasn't an Eon Bond, which would mean no David Niven either. I don't think Eon would want to promote any actor other than their own.

 

I think a 45 second ad would be good, for broadcast during the SuperBowl or something. It'd go viral too, of course.

Edited by DavidJones, 19 January 2017 - 04:28 PM.

[hoagy]

I was joking, and obviously, I failed.  And in two regards !  I forgot to include David Niven, Woody Allen, etc., and I did not communicate the humor -- believe it or not, intended -- well at all...for shame...

[The*SPY*]

Why not just avoid an actor all together and create a new James Bond (or actors/actresses) that could be used through multiple movies without the fear of aging (Moore), weight gain (Connery) or hair loss (Connery/Dalton).  Maybe LAzenby will sell the rights to his 1969 image for use as James Bond infinity.

[Tiin007]

Why not just avoid an actor all together and create a new James Bond (or actors/actresses) that could be used through multiple movies without the fear of aging (Moore), weight gain (Connery) or hair loss (Connery/Dalton).  Maybe LAzenby will sell the rights to his 1969 image for use as James Bond infinity.

 

In one of life's little ironies, the man who was known for decades as "that guy who only did one" (if he was known at all) would be propelled into the spotlight as the most prolific Bond actor of the series, starring in over 20 Bond films.

 

(If they were to do something like this, then I'd hope they could craft a revenge-driven Lazenby film to occupy the gap between OHMSS and DAF-- it could even feature the death of Irma Bunt, with Blofeld narrowly escaping, only to have Bond pick up the trail at the start of DAF. As the continuity was barely acknowledged in DAF as is, there is a lot of room for creativity here.) 

[sharpshooter]

I'd love it if they commissioned animated Bond movies. Much like the Return of the Caped Crusaders which featured the voice talent of Adam West. We'd finally have the second Lazenby film, and the third Dalton outing. It's never going to happen, but it'd be a goldmine for fans. We can only dream.

[AMC Hornet]

"Your dream, whatever sort of nightmare it is, hasn't a chance."

 

(Oops, wrong thread - sorry.)

[Agent 76]

I'd love it if they commissioned animated Bond movies. Much like the Return of the Caped Crusaders which featured the voice talent of Adam West. We'd finally have the second Lazenby film, and the third Dalton outing. It's never going to happen, but it'd be a goldmine for fans. We can only dream.

That's actually a very cool idea. There's an audience for animated features, and the possibilities are endless. Bring back former 007 actors, making period pieces etc.

[Simon]

On talking about this in the pub last night, it was indeed suggested that actors would have to licence their image in perpetuity for what could and, specifically, could Not be done.

 

This might at least exercise some control over the future of actors' careers.  And get round the laughable comment that introduced this debate; that of, 'We haven't done anything that Peter Cushing would not have wanted.'  Begs the question, How do you know?

[Orion]

They somewhat did this by having Connery come back for the FRWL game, then Bloodstone and Everything Or Nothing did it with the current actors so I guess there is precedent from EON for it. 

On talking about this in the pub last night, it was indeed suggested that actors would have to licence their image in perpetuity for what could and, specifically, could Not be done.

 

This might at least exercise some control over the future of actors' careers.  And get round the laughable comment that introduced this debate; that of, 'We haven't done anything that Peter Cushing would not have wanted.'  Begs the question, How do you know?

They have to get permission from his estate per Equity rules. So his kids said it's ok basically.

[DavidJones]

With regards to Peter Cushing, his likeness was used for a character he had agreed to play, in a franchise he had agreed to appear in.

 

Perhaps the closest we can get to a quote on this is the time he said, "It gives me the most wonderful feeling. These dear people love me so much and want to see me."

[freemo]

Or we could just let the dead be dead. Instead of digging them up and making their corpses into marionettes for the sake of "entertainment".

[Simon]

Which was kinda where I was aligning myself, to be frank.

[SecretAgentFan]

There is no easy answer.

 

Yes, I liked seeing Tarkin in ROGUE ONE - but the idea that an actor, even if the legal rights to use his likeness were bought, can be used in order to appear after his death, not knowing whether he would have wanted to do this role again or do it in the way it was done for him, is troubling.  Are actors really just a commodity that can and should be used how one sees fit?  

 

If actors are alive and agree to it themselves - then it would be much easier to accept.  Carrie Fisher agreed to her "cameo" in ROGUE ONE.  Cushing could not.

 

In addition to that I think the technique still is not perfect.  Simply because the unpredictability of human behaviour and gestures is what makes an appearance look human.  Tarkin in ROGUE ONE still had that kind of CGI feeling, even the subtlest motions of his face reminded me of an animated character.  A real actor would not have grimaced that way.

 

On the other hand I am scared of the day this technique really becomes perfect.  Then nothing can be taken for real anymore, and no news reports can be trusted then.  Sure, this technological process cannot be stopped, the invention is there and will be abused like every invention has been.  But it remains a problem.

 

Personally, I would have been content with showing Tarkin just once, in a reflection on a windowpane, like he is introduced in ROGUE ONE.  Maybe one or two sentences in a dialogue, showing a double from the distance - that would have been enough for me.  And maybe it´s knowing that Cushing is not there anymore which ruins the suspension of disbelief.  One rather looks at it contemplating how they did it, thereby taking one out of the story instead of immersing one.

[Simon]

Yes.  All of the above was what compelled me to begin this thread.

 

The morality and suspension of disbelief were uppermost.  And I was leaving much of this out of my initial foray into this question to see if became unearthed in the fullness of time.

 

Playing devil's advocate, I also wonder whether this will, in time, be accepted.  As alluded to in the 'same sex marriage' idea above.

 

Time will tell...

[freemo]

Actually, I was initially indifferent about this, but the more I think about it the less I like.

 

It's not even so much that he was denied the opportunity to refuse participation. It's that reduces him, from an actor, an artist, a person, to a prop. In 50 years from now, will Mr. Cushing's filmography be dominated by a slab of posthumous CGI "cameos" in crappy, derivative STAR WARS cash-ins? That doesn't add. That diminishes. "More" isn't always more. Sometimes it's less.

 

Dance, oh ghost of Peter Cushing, dance. Dance for our salivating fanboys who go rabid for anything they recognize from that movie we're creatively leeching ourselves to!

[DavidJones]

As a big Cushing fan, it was exciting to see him again.

[SecretAgentFan]

As a big Cushing fan, it was exciting to see him again.

 

But you did not see him.  You saw a CGI recreation, animated by other people.  That´s the problem here.

[DavidJones]

As a big Cushing fan, it was exciting to see him again.

 
But you did not see him.  You saw a CGI recreation, animated by other people.  That´s the problem here.

I know that, but as I saw above, it is his likeness. I know quite a lot about him and think he would be quite flattered about it myself.

[Hockey Mask]

This isn't my fight. There are too many things to worry about in the world than to guess what a dead man "may" think. If the family/estate doesn't have a problem with it why shoukd I.

[SecretAgentFan]

It´s called "your own opinion".  And it´s not a fight, just a discussion on a message board.