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Revisiting SPECTRE


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#1 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 05:30 PM

Too soon?

 

Well, it´s been four months since I had last seen the film (for the second time) in the cinema.  And I have blabbered on in numerous thoughts about my disappointment with so many aspects of the film, including Sam Mendes´ narrative choices and Hoyte van Hoytema´s cinematography.

 

Also, I made an about face after my second viewing, appreciating the film much more - and then flip-flopping again in time, thinking of all the ways the film could have been better.

 

Wait.  Better?  As in "how I would have made the film"?

 

It´s a strange thing being a fan.  One feels a certain ownership of the object of one´s obsession, being (not always so) secretly convinced that one knows... well... more than the filmmakers themselves.  And that one would have been more courageous, truer to the source, more inventive and daring.

 

Of course, that is one element that makes the discussion on a message board so interesting and fun.  There ARE great ideas being exchanged here, creativity that a Bond film would benefit from.

 

But.

 

Just as nobody would make a Bond film like I would does not mean that Sam Mendes should make a film like I would. To put it in other words: SPECTRE is, of course, Sam Mendes´ vision.  If it differs from mine it does not mean (oh, really?) that it is any worse than mine.  And besides, how many films have I directed so far?

 

Watching SPECTRE for the first time in a press screening I was excited until the end of the car chase in Rome.  From then on I was getting restless, trying to reconcile my hopes (provoked by the trailers) with what actually ended up on the screen.  After the finale in London I was a bit crushed.  The cinematography was far from the painterly Roger Deakins´ brilliance, after the delicious introduction of Spectre and its mastermind the plot was not fulfilling its potential, Christoph Waltz was underused and not nearly as menacing as Silva, and the ending was weak, offering lackluster action.

 

Then, the second time, I tried to just sit back and enjoy everything - but it was only two weeks since the press screening, and most of the film was still too familiar to really make a difference for me.  But I wanted to like it.  I really felt this strong urge to even love it since - hey, it´s a new Bond film from the team that brought me so much pleasure with SKYFALL - and who knows when I´m able to see the next one?

 

Maybe that´s why the problems I had with SPECTRE the first time re-appeared after the (second) honeymoon-period faded.  I had not really been able to look at the film without those damn expectations that had kind of ruined the film for me the first time.

 

 

Now, it´s been long enough to actually look forward to revisiting SPECTRE, and I have to say, even with some days having gone by now, I have fallen in love with the film.  And I get the strong feeling that this feeling is here to stay.

 

Here is why everything that did not work for me before worked for me now:

 

- On blu-ray, the cinematography, of course, did not turn into a Roger Deakins-composition festival.  The colour-grading was the same, naturally, and the colour-palette still was mainly consisting of white, black, grey and orange.  

 

But again - this is not the same film as SKYFALL.  It dares (and needed) to find its own voice.  And finally, even I could understand and appreciate this.  The "hot & cold"-idea of Mendes, "heaven & hell", "fire & ice" absolutely corresponds with the narrative and - yes - works.  Why did I desperately hope for a second Deakins-like look when it wasn´t even Deakins doing the job?  Expectations.  Wrong ones.

 

 

- The meandering narrative after Rome actually did not feel so meandering to me anymore.

 

The Mr.White-sequence is eerily effective and a fitting end to this character.

 

It nicely leads to the Madeleine-sequence (which features absolutely brilliant dialogue) and an action sequence that felt uneventful during my first viewings but actually is typically Bondian (the ongoing destruction of the plane still does not keep Bond from doing what he needs to do).

 

Then the Tangier-sequence, which felt extremely slow to me before, was a much needed slowing down, something the early films always offered, and suddenly I even got emotionally involved with Bond enduring Madeleine´s contempt and careful opening up.  

 

Then the absolutely brutal entrance of Hinx and the devastating fight with Bond.  I love the moment when Bond loses any strength, helplessly aiming for Hinx after giving everything he got - and then Madeleine shooting Hinx (subtly prepared by her gun-story on the train) which still does not stop him.

 

Then the moment in the desert.  I was very critical of this, asking on this board why Bond does not have any plan seeking out the secret base.  But this time I really felt that this was not only Bondian, too (what else does Bond in Dr.No when he sets out for the island?) but also part of Bond unable to know that his smart blood will not bring in the cavalry (like the radio did on Silva´s island) since M has ordered to delete any data, and rightfully so, since Spectre already has access to them and used this knowledge to send Hinx after Bond.

 

And then - yes - Christoph Waltz.  I was absolutely wrong.  He is not doing his Waltz-schtick.  Instead he delivers an extremely underplayed performance.  Look and listen closely, and one discovers how his tone constantly changes ever so slightly.  The total opposite to Bardem´s grand guignol-acting in SKYFALL, Waltz´ portrayal achieves its menace by making Blofeld´s insanity matter-of-factly.  The way he explains to Madeleine how tragic it will be when Bond looses his memory is bone-chilling... and at the same time amusing as hell.  Was Waltz underused in the film?  No, I don´t think so anymore.  It´s exactly this subtle use of him in a few scenes which makes him more effective than parading him around in too many scenes.

 

The torture sequence also works for me now - since it actually is all about Blofeld getting into Bond´s head, literally.  He always tried to interfere and toy with him.  Now he does it, thinking it´s for the last time - but Bond again turns the tables.  I love the moment when Bond asks "Do you do any other bird voices, Franz?" and Blofeld reacting very annoyed by it.  Maybe so annoyed that he fails hitting the right spot in Bond´s head.

 

There is something unreal about Bond blowing up the base and every of Blofeld´s goons after that.  But this time I was ready to accept this as Bond´s suppressed anger and pain finding a way of deadly expression. Something that saves him and Madeleine but which also proves to her that this is not the man she wants to live with; she needs the Bond of the Tangier scenes, someone who is not the blunt instrument but a man capable of love, fear and, yes, sanity.

 

And the film cannot end at this base.  It has to give Bond and Blofeld another chance to confront their anger at each other, and the blackness of this sequence corresponds with the choices of the cinematography and location.  It all makes sense, bringing things full circle in the old, demolition-ready Mi6-building. 

 

Does Bond escape with Madeleine and bring down Blofeld´s helicopter too easily? Yes.  But again - like Bond´s gunning down of Blofeld´s helpers at the base, this sequence is not about giving us more spectacle.  It is about fate.  Blofeld cannot escape Bond´s grasp.  Bond will bring him down.  But... in a kind of replay of the ending of QUANTUM OF SOLACE Bond does not choose instant gratification.  However, when he chose not to kill Yussuf, it still felt as if Bond made this choice with his head, not his heart.  He knew his life in the service would have been over if he had killed without thinking, without really using his licence to kill as M defines it in the scene with C: "A licence to kill is also a licence not to kill."  And Bond finally makes this choice with his head AND his heart, taking revenge on Blofeld by walking away, having "something better to do".

 

That´s why I now embrace the choice not to end the film on the proposed line "We have all the time in the world".  It would have set up a tragedy.  But SPECTRE actually is about Bond winning, getting rid of this ghost that has haunted him for too long.  And that´s the reason why Bond is much more relaxed than ever before during the Craig era.  He has learned to cope with tragedy and to turn it into victory.  Even more than that: Bond is at peace at the end of SPECTRE.  And this - like so many aspects of the film that subtly subvert the usual tropes (think of Mrs. Sciarra surviving despite being the obvious sacrifial lamb) - is kind of revolutionary within Craig´s tenure.

 

Am I trying to explain away everything that I formely tried to base my criticism on?  Yes, I do.  But I am absolutely convinced that now I finally have been able to appreciate SPECTRE for what it is, instead of snarking about what it isn´t. 

 

This is Sam Mendes´ vision.  And, for me, finally, it works.  Absolutely.

 

And I am looking forward to watching SPECTRE again and again.  Something I could not say before.



#2 thecasinoroyale

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 08:23 AM

This is so odd - seems we have literally taken different paths in this film.

 

I initially loved it, and I watched it last night again after 4 months and was left feeling frustrated and disappointed. Why I gave it 4.5 stars out of 5 and placed it No.5 in my 24 Bond favourites list I'll never know. Well, I do know, I was riding the "Bond is back after 3 years" wave and swept up in it all.

 

Going back after 4 months see it on Blu-ray, more things irked me than before and I was disappointed they did because I wasn't looking for anything except to enjoy it, and it parts I did but mostly over the 2nd hour I didn't.

 

What a shame - but glad you enjoyed it more and took to it again! :)



#3 Guy Haines

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 08:42 AM

I watched it again yesterday and on the whole I agree with Secret Agent Fan. It gets better with repeated viewing for me, although to be honest I liked it a lot to begin with.

The comment about Christoph Waltz I'm beginning to agree with - leave him to the last quarter of the film - save for two brief glimspes in Rome earlier on - and reveal him as a chilling sadist for whom torturing Bond is as matter of fact as pulling the wings off flies. "He dies not knowing who you are" is Blofeld's offhand comment to Madeleine.

I've typed this before, but I don't think Bond is directly the reason Blofeld turned out as he did, despite the latter's childish attempt to pin his career path on 007. He is simply a nasty piece of work and Waltz's understated performance reveals it.

#4 thecasinoroyale

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 09:34 AM

Firstly, I'm not here to argue or debate more and more on topics covered in the threads externally to this review...I will converse about points of course, but it's been nearly 5 months since 'SPECTRE' came out to the world and we've all talked about likes and dislikes to death and still do.
 
Nobody is every going to be happy, or right, or wrong. This is simply my current view of the film and I'm not here to be tarred with a "SPECTRE-bashing" brush. I'm here as a 20yr+ Bond fan; that's all. I love the diversity of how films please and disappoint fans, and why, and that's why I love being a Bond fan on a community like this; to read and understand others. It's all a matter of perspective.


Oh, speaking of perspective, I want to write something...



My 1st time watching this on Blu-ray after 4 months from seeing it 4 times in the cinema, I was expecting to enjoy it just as much but I left with a strong feeling of disappointment and frustration.

Maybe it was the sickly yellow gunbarrel colour that just bothered me from the start that I didn't notice in the cinema, or the fact Daniel Craig looks so grizzled and craggy this time around and pretty much worn out in the role after just 9 years and 4 films. It seems Blu-Ray really highlights all the little things I didn't see wrapped up in the Bond-hype in the cinema.

The second half really dragged for me at home and I was rather bored from the end of the Austria scene through the Tangier location, and even then it dipped once the noisy London finale came about.

Annoyed that both Christoph Waltz and Andrew Scott are given so little to do and be great villains was also a big shame. Much of the film's villain is Mr Hinx, who pops up now and then but doesn't serve much except to cue the action sequences. The villain seemed to be the shadows, and the "unknown" mastermind, but this wasted so much talent and I found myself bored waiting for the reveal of Blofeld and for C to be allowed to be as nasty as he should have been able to be earlier on.

Even the London finale bored me - drawn out, gloomy and dark, lacking tension, repetitive music, an awful CGI Brosnan style MI6 jump and a rushed helicopter takedown...bring back the Golden Gate Bridge for me! I found myself wanting to see more of C and M and Q than Bond walking around MI6 waiting for an even more border looking Blofeld.

A forced love story, very little consequences in the action (hardly nobody bleeds or suffers after torture or a beating), a very boring car chase, wasted boobs with Monica Bellucci and a soundtrack that reminded me about 'Skyfall' and didn't have the action on screen to compete with it....

....man, I just felt disappointed and left feeling robbed of what could have been a better film, a better Bond outing, and a better turn for Daniel Craig who comes across more of a thug here who doesn't know what he wants in life, as well as having a very wiry face at times that shows he's not aging the best sadly to keep Bond current.

I'm shocked myself at these feelings, being a hardcore 007 fan, but when I put a Bond film on at home I want to be entertained. Not subjected to a drawn-out 2.5hr slog where things are getting more and more serious and losing the ability to escape in Bond's world. And I know times change, and the series has to grow, I accept that more than anyone, but I can find films that entertain and enthral me from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s over 'SPECTRE', so this doesn't mean you have to be modern and cutting edge at the sake of plot, Bond-qualities and enjoyment.

However I did still enjoy the blistering pre-title sequence and our continued cast of MI6 characters. The film does look good, and for the first half has a lot of positive tension, drama and development to it but it does lose it's way sadly. I still hope Bellucci returns to give SPECTRE more of a dangerous feel, because it's almost like without Blofeld, the organisation will collapse as there was very little threat from them as a whole I felt.

This has dropped way down in my overall list, and I felt the urgency to re-visit 'Casino Royale', 'Skyfall' and even 'Quantum Of Solace' to get back into a point where Daniel Craig delivered, some of the stories were engaging, and these films didn't feel like a huge personally motivated chore to watch for a wasted outcome that just left me feeling unsatisfied.

And the fact Daniel Craig's Bond still feels the need to bow out every film pretty much with a glaringly obvious "I'M STILL JAMES BOND, REMEMBER! THIS IS THE SERIES YOU LOVED BEFORE 2006 EVEN THOUGH IT'S DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT!" statement, be it the illogical use of the once destroyed Aston Martin DB5 or the loud James Bond theme or forced gunbarrel...we know it's James Bond. Stop trying to remind us and end every film like it could be the last. Have confidence in the series as a whole, not just Daniel Craig because I feel there is much needed life after him in the role now.

Sorry to write this, as much as I didn't want to feel this and just enjoy the film, I just did and had to write these feelings down somewhere I would be allowed to!

#5 DaveBond21

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:58 AM

Too soon?

 

Well, it´s been four months since I had last seen the film (for the second time) in the cinema.  And I have blabbered on in numerous thoughts about my disappointment with so many aspects of the film, including Sam Mendes´ narrative choices and Hoyte van Hoytema´s cinematography.

 

Also, I made an about face after my second viewing, appreciating the film much more - and then flip-flopping again in time, thinking of all the ways the film could have been better.

 

Wait.  Better?  As in "how I would have made the film"?

 

It´s a strange thing being a fan.  One feels a certain ownership of the object of one´s obsession, being (not always so) secretly convinced that one knows... well... more than the filmmakers themselves.  And that one would have been more courageous, truer to the source, more inventive and daring.

 

Of course, that is one element that makes the discussion on a message board so interesting and fun.  There ARE great ideas being exchanged here, creativity that a Bond film would benefit from.

 

But.

 

Just as nobody would make a Bond film like I would does not mean that Sam Mendes should make a film like I would. To put it in other words: SPECTRE is, of course, Sam Mendes´ vision.  If it differs from mine it does not mean (oh, really?) that it is any worse than mine.  And besides, how many films have I directed so far?

 

Watching SPECTRE for the first time in a press screening I was excited until the end of the car chase in Rome.  From then on I was getting restless, trying to reconcile my hopes (provoked by the trailers) with what actually ended up on the screen.  After the finale in London I was a bit crushed.  The cinematography was far from the painterly Roger Deakins´ brilliance, after the delicious introduction of Spectre and its mastermind the plot was not fulfilling its potential, Christoph Waltz was underused and not nearly as menacing as Silva, and the ending was weak, offering lackluster action.

 

Then, the second time, I tried to just sit back and enjoy everything - but it was only two weeks since the press screening, and most of the film was still too familiar to really make a difference for me.  But I wanted to like it.  I really felt this strong urge to even love it since - hey, it´s a new Bond film from the team that brought me so much pleasure with SKYFALL - and who knows when I´m able to see the next one?

 

Maybe that´s why the problems I had with SPECTRE the first time re-appeared after the (second) honeymoon-period faded.  I had not really been able to look at the film without those damn expectations that had kind of ruined the film for me the first time.

 

 

Now, it´s been long enough to actually look forward to revisiting SPECTRE, and I have to say, even with some days having gone by now, I have fallen in love with the film.  And I get the strong feeling that this feeling is here to stay.

 

Here is why everything that did not work for me before worked for me now:

 

- On blu-ray, the cinematography, of course, did not turn into a Roger Deakins-composition festival.  The colour-grading was the same, naturally, and the colour-palette still was mainly consisting of white, black, grey and orange.  

 

But again - this is not the same film as SKYFALL.  It dares (and needed) to find its own voice.  And finally, even I could understand and appreciate this.  The "hot & cold"-idea of Mendes, "heaven & hell", "fire & ice" absolutely corresponds with the narrative and - yes - works.  Why did I desperately hope for a second Deakins-like look when it wasn´t even Deakins doing the job?  Expectations.  Wrong ones.

 

 

- The meandering narrative after Rome actually did not feel so meandering to me anymore.

 

The Mr.White-sequence is eerily effective and a fitting end to this character.

 

It nicely leads to the Madeleine-sequence (which features absolutely brilliant dialogue) and an action sequence that felt uneventful during my first viewings but actually is typically Bondian (the ongoing destruction of the plane still does not keep Bond from doing what he needs to do).

 

Then the Tangier-sequence, which felt extremely slow to me before, was a much needed slowing down, something the early films always offered, and suddenly I even got emotionally involved with Bond enduring Madeleine´s contempt and careful opening up.  

 

Then the absolutely brutal entrance of Hinx and the devastating fight with Bond.  I love the moment when Bond loses any strength, helplessly aiming for Hinx after giving everything he got - and then Madeleine shooting Hinx (subtly prepared by her gun-story on the train) which still does not stop him.

 

Then the moment in the desert.  I was very critical of this, asking on this board why Bond does not have any plan seeking out the secret base.  But this time I really felt that this was not only Bondian, too (what else does Bond in Dr.No when he sets out for the island?) but also part of Bond unable to know that his smart blood will not bring in the cavalry (like the radio did on Silva´s island) since M has ordered to delete any data, and rightfully so, since Spectre already has access to them and used this knowledge to send Hinx after Bond.

 

And then - yes - Christoph Waltz.  I was absolutely wrong.  He is not doing his Waltz-schtick.  Instead he delivers an extremely underplayed performance.  Look and listen closely, and one discovers how his tone constantly changes ever so slightly.  The total opposite to Bardem´s grand guignol-acting in SKYFALL, Waltz´ portrayal achieves its menace by making Blofeld´s insanity matter-of-factly.  The way he explains to Madeleine how tragic it will be when Bond looses his memory is bone-chilling... and at the same time amusing as hell.  Was Waltz underused in the film?  No, I don´t think so anymore.  It´s exactly this subtle use of him in a few scenes which makes him more effective than parading him around in too many scenes.

 

The torture sequence also works for me now - since it actually is all about Blofeld getting into Bond´s head, literally.  He always tried to interfere and toy with him.  Now he does it, thinking it´s for the last time - but Bond again turns the tables.  I love the moment when Bond asks "Do you do any other bird voices, Franz?" and Blofeld reacting very annoyed by it.  Maybe so annoyed that he fails hitting the right spot in Bond´s head.

 

There is something unreal about Bond blowing up the base and every of Blofeld´s goons after that.  But this time I was ready to accept this as Bond´s suppressed anger and pain finding a way of deadly expression. Something that saves him and Madeleine but which also proves to her that this is not the man she wants to live with; she needs the Bond of the Tangier scenes, someone who is not the blunt instrument but a man capable of love, fear and, yes, sanity.

 

And the film cannot end at this base.  It has to give Bond and Blofeld another chance to confront their anger at each other, and the blackness of this sequence corresponds with the choices of the cinematography and location.  It all makes sense, bringing things full circle in the old, demolition-ready Mi6-building. 

 

Does Bond escape with Madeleine and bring down Blofeld´s helicopter too easily? Yes.  But again - like Bond´s gunning down of Blofeld´s helpers at the base, this sequence is not about giving us more spectacle.  It is about fate.  Blofeld cannot escape Bond´s grasp.  Bond will bring him down.  But... in a kind of replay of the ending of QUANTUM OF SOLACE Bond does not choose instant gratification.  However, when he chose not to kill Yussuf, it still felt as if Bond made this choice with his head, not his heart.  He knew his life in the service would have been over if he had killed without thinking, without really using his licence to kill as M defines it in the scene with C: "A licence to kill is also a licence not to kill."  And Bond finally makes this choice with his head AND his heart, taking revenge on Blofeld by walking away, having "something better to do".

 

That´s why I now embrace the choice not to end the film on the proposed line "We have all the time in the world".  It would have set up a tragedy.  But SPECTRE actually is about Bond winning, getting rid of this ghost that has haunted him for too long.  And that´s the reason why Bond is much more relaxed than ever before during the Craig era.  He has learned to cope with tragedy and to turn it into victory.  Even more than that: Bond is at peace at the end of SPECTRE.  And this - like so many aspects of the film that subtly subvert the usual tropes (think of Mrs. Sciarra surviving despite being the obvious sacrifial lamb) - is kind of revolutionary within Craig´s tenure.

 

Am I trying to explain away everything that I formely tried to base my criticism on?  Yes, I do.  But I am absolutely convinced that now I finally have been able to appreciate SPECTRE for what it is, instead of snarking about what it isn´t. 

 

This is Sam Mendes´ vision.  And, for me, finally, it works.  Absolutely.

 

And I am looking forward to watching SPECTRE again and again.  Something I could not say before.

 

Great to read this SAF.

 

I also still love this film. Everything about it is, as you say, about Bond winning. There are some great action scenes, a good plot and a creepy bad guy. I think when we next see Blofeld it won't be about the distant past anymore, it will be about gaining revenge for having his base blown up.

 

There are some great lines.

 

"What if I shoot you by mistake?"

"Wouldn't be the first time"

 

I really hope the next one is like Skyfall and SPECTRE, as they have set an impressive benchmark.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________



#6 byline

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 09:34 PM


This is Sam Mendes´ vision.  And, for me, finally, it works.  Absolutely.

 

And I am looking forward to watching SPECTRE again and again.  Something I could not say before.

Thank you for your entire review. You noted some things that bothered me initially, though not nearly as much as I sense they did you. They were just little niggles. But overall the film worked for me in the theatre, and worked even better for me on Blu-ray ... for many of the reasons you have suggested. Expectations have a lot to do with how we perceive a film. Many were disappointed in Quantum of Solace (including me, on first viewing), and I think much of that boils down to what people were expecting based on Casino Royale. I think SPECTRE suffers much the same fate, having followed Skyfall. However, I will keep on enjoying it. Glad you are, too!



#7 Hockey Mask

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:58 PM

Wonderful thoughts from all. It is interesting how a Bond movie slides down or climbs up a fan's list with time.

New Bond films start very high or very low with me. They usually find a more permanent place in the middle after I've seen it at home.

SPECTRE took the #1 spot on my list after first viewing and remains there today. It may still slip but not far.

Bond movies, for me, are the "moments" more than the whole. SPECTRE had lots of "moments". The pretitle sequence is still the best of the series. Waltz is the best Blofeld. The boardroom scene with Blofeld's monologue is a spectacular scene. In fact, nearly every time Waltz delivered a line it was classic. The cinematography and music accompanying Lucia's assaination attempt was tremendous.

It is all these "moments" that have kept SPECTRE as my favorite Bond movie to date. It may still slide but so far is holding ground.

Edited by Hockey Mask, 16 March 2016 - 09:59 PM.


#8 RMc2

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:09 AM

Thanks for your review, SAF!

 

It's nice to see your growing appreciation for SP.

 

Free of the weight of expectation, SP definitely improves on repeat viewing. But it's flaws are still there, and only grow in acuteness for me, just as the good points grow stronger. SP will never be better than middle of the pack, which isn't a bad thing!



#9 Simon

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:59 PM

Revisiting SPECTRE!

 

Bloody hell.  The film has barely undergone its DVD release amidst a $3.5bn celebratory (and / but marketing-lead)  auction, and already a film is deemed worthy of revisiting,  Has the dust settled that quickly?

 

Give it 10 years fella!  And Then revisit it in a different era.



#10 mattjoes

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 01:55 AM

SecretAgentFan, good call on Bond counting on the smart blood when heading into Blofeld's lair.

 

Bond movies, for me, are the "moments" more than the whole. SPECTRE had lots of "moments".

This sums it up for me, really.

Spectre is the closest we've had to a larger-than-life Bond film since Casino Royale. Now, not every film must be like that, but it's refreshing to go back to that style after the more introspective, but fascinating Skyfall. Actually, I think the more grounded style of Craig's era can be married to some elements of the more escapist films, without falling into kitsch or silliness. In fact, something as simple as building an action scene around a landmark, such as the Eiffel Tower or the Golden Gate Bridge, would add a larger-than-life quality. They tried to go in that direction ever so slightly with Silva's lair in Skyfall, and again in Spectre with Blofeld's lair and with the PTS. I'd welcome more of that. Doesn't mean we need a space lazer battle!