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Christoph Waltz Could Return. BUT....


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#1 thecasinoroyale

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:37 AM

...only if Daniel Craig continues as James Bond.
 
Reports and rumours to start the New Year over various sites say that Christoph Waltz could be back for another 2 Bond movies BUT on the condition Daniel Craig continues to portray 007 for, in his words, "continuity".
 
Makes sense to me, and hopefully we may get some confirmation on this or Waltz's involvement in the future of the series after his tease in 'SPECTRE'.

I for one would love more from Waltz as Blofeld. It'd be a crime to waste him.

http://www.cinemable...ion-103637.html

http://www.independe...7-a6794351.html

#2 Surrie

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:31 AM

Very much in agreement with you. If EON can secure Craig for 2 more then I like to think Waltz would be more than happy to return. They could achieve something very special and memorable if they pitted these 2 characters/actors together some more. 



#3 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:32 AM

Makes sense.  

 

But since I was underwhelmed by Waltz as Blofeld I wouldn´t mind another guy going for it.

 

On the other hand, maybe one more film giving Waltz as Blofeld more room to establish himself would be the way to remedy what was underachieving in SPECTRE.



#4 Tiin007

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 01:31 PM

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality.

 

I would love it if Bond 25's villain was neither Blofeld nor a member of SPECTRE, but rather a "one-off" villain. As part of his mission, Bond needs to interrogate an imprisoned Blofeld, who contains vital information about the film's baddie, as (s)he has been a competitor of SPECTRE for quite some time. Blofeld, who would obviously like to see his competitor out of business, would therefore be MI6's biggest lead and source of information on this villain. This would only give Blofeld two or three scenes (maybe slightly more than White's appearances in QoS), but they would certainly be memorable, as Bond's arch nemesis constantly taunts him ("How's Madeline?") while simultaneously providing Bond the information he requires. Waltz could pull this off brilliantly. 

 

Then have the PTS of Bond 26 be Blofeld sprung from custody, and the final Bond vs. Blofeld showdown would be the rest of Bond 26. 

 

This approach accomplishes two things. First, it gives Blofeld more screentime, particularly with Bond, allowing audiences to really "get a feeling" for Bond's arch nemesis, especially as he was somewhat wasted in SPECTRE. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it avoids the oh-so-predictable option of opening Bond 25 with Blofeld being sprung from MI6 custody. This is a nice way to spice things up and play with audience expectations. As Blofeld is now captured, there is certainly room to do something interesting before the obvious jail break. Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs



#5 TheREAL008

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 01:36 PM

 While it would be good to see him return I'm more worried about Daniel's ambiguity towards him returning or not. I would love for him to return and tie with Sir Sean but all in all it's in Daniel's hands, and all we can do is hope he won't step down anytime soon.



#6 Surrie

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 02:24 PM

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality.

 

I would love it if Bond 25's villain was neither Blofeld nor a member of SPECTRE, but rather a "one-off" villain. As part of his mission, Bond needs to interrogate an imprisoned Blofeld, who contains vital information about the film's baddie, as (s)he has been a competitor of SPECTRE for quite some time. Blofeld, who would obviously like to see his competitor out of business, would therefore be MI6's biggest lead and source of information on this villain. This would only give Blofeld two or three scenes (maybe slightly more than White's appearances in QoS), but they would certainly be memorable, as Bond's arch nemesis constantly taunts him ("How's Madeline?") while simultaneously providing Bond the information he requires. Waltz could pull this off brilliantly. 

 

Then have the PTS of Bond 26 be Blofeld sprung from custody, and the final Bond vs. Blofeld showdown would be the rest of Bond 26. 

 

This approach accomplishes two things. First, it gives Blofeld more screentime, particularly with Bond, allowing audiences to really "get a feeling" for Bond's arch nemesis, especially as he was somewhat wasted in SPECTRE. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it avoids the oh-so-predictable option of opening Bond 25 with Blofeld being sprung from MI6 custody. This is a nice way to spice things up and play with audience expectations. As Blofeld is now captured, there is certainly room to do something interesting before the obvious jail break. Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs

 

Bravo  :D  This is something I would be very keen on seeing. It would bring some continuity to the franchise (which in my opinion EON has always struggled with), give some more screentime to Waltz - allowing him to develop ESB and really make him menacing, and finally we can avoid the easy script writing of breaking ESB lose at the start of Bond 25. 

 

Let's hope EON go for a more thought-out story for Bond 25, and perhaps even Bond 26 rather than going for the easy option and rushing in. 



#7 Tiin007

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 03:18 PM

 

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality.

 

I would love it if Bond 25's villain was neither Blofeld nor a member of SPECTRE, but rather a "one-off" villain. As part of his mission, Bond needs to interrogate an imprisoned Blofeld, who contains vital information about the film's baddie, as (s)he has been a competitor of SPECTRE for quite some time. Blofeld, who would obviously like to see his competitor out of business, would therefore be MI6's biggest lead and source of information on this villain. This would only give Blofeld two or three scenes (maybe slightly more than White's appearances in QoS), but they would certainly be memorable, as Bond's arch nemesis constantly taunts him ("How's Madeline?") while simultaneously providing Bond the information he requires. Waltz could pull this off brilliantly. 

 

Then have the PTS of Bond 26 be Blofeld sprung from custody, and the final Bond vs. Blofeld showdown would be the rest of Bond 26. 

 

This approach accomplishes two things. First, it gives Blofeld more screentime, particularly with Bond, allowing audiences to really "get a feeling" for Bond's arch nemesis, especially as he was somewhat wasted in SPECTRE. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it avoids the oh-so-predictable option of opening Bond 25 with Blofeld being sprung from MI6 custody. This is a nice way to spice things up and play with audience expectations. As Blofeld is now captured, there is certainly room to do something interesting before the obvious jail break. Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs

 

Bravo  :D  This is something I would be very keen on seeing. It would bring some continuity to the franchise (which in my opinion EON has always struggled with), give some more screentime to Waltz - allowing him to develop ESB and really make him menacing, and finally we can avoid the easy script writing of breaking ESB lose at the start of Bond 25. 

 

Let's hope EON go for a more thought-out story for Bond 25, and perhaps even Bond 26 rather than going for the easy option and rushing in. 

 

 

Glad you like my idea.

 

I think EON have lately taken the "easy option" and rushed things. Take SPECTRE for instance. Immediately after acquiring the rights to Blofeld and his nefarious organization, EON went all-out, having Bond infiltrate a SPECTRE meeting, meet and capture his arch-nemesis, and destroy said nemesis's Moroccan crater base. All in one film. And to top it all off, EON decided to essentially retcon the previous three films, trying to convince audiences that it was SPECTRE all along, when in fact that was clearly not their intentions when each of those films was made. 

 

Contrast this with the 60s. We are first introduced to SPECTRE in Dr. No, albeit just through a specific operative's Jamaican operation. Then, in FRWL, we are introduced to key players of said organization, including it's nameless and faceless leader, and their base of operations (SPECTRE Island). Then take a break for a film. Then in Thunderball, we are privy to a meeting of the all the SPECTRE higher-ups, as they execute an over-the-top blackmail plot, easily the most ambitious the organization has done so far. And just like FRWL, Thunderball once again features a faceless and nameless leader. Yet Bond has not been privy to any of these meetings, unaware of the big baddie. Finally, in You Only Live Twice, in an even more ambitious plot of stealing US and Russian space rockets, Bond is introduced to the man behind everything, as we the audience hear his name and see his face for the first time, all taking place within the first real (and arguably the most visually stunning) villain's lair of the entire series. It felt like a real pay-off.

 

Arguably the only thread left dangling was the dropped plot point of SPECTRE Island from FRWL, but everything we got more than made up for it. 

 

I had really hoped that if SPECTRE were to return in the new rebooted continuity, that EON would once again take their time in slowly revealing the layers of the organization, but alas, they chose instead to show all their cards in SPECTRE. A real wasted opportunity, in my opinion. It is beyond obvious that EON do not plan more than one film ahead. 

 

If my idea of an imprisoned Blofeld in Bond 25 were to be implemented, it would be the first time in recent years that EON has actually shown some foresight and planning. I'm really hoping. 



#8 Surrie

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 03:39 PM

Here's hoping that Babs and Mike can take their time and demonstrate that they are skilled producers! Saltzman and Broccoli chose Fleming's books specifically on the merit of how well they would be transferred to the screen - this included altering the story slightly and redrafting scripts. Babs and Mike have the same ability to do this with script writers and not rush it - redraft until it's perfect.

 

I hate waiting 3+ years between Bond films, but I would rather they take their time and perfect their art than rush films out!



#9 AMC Hornet

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 04:45 PM

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality....

 

Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs

I imagine you being the first to complain that the film is too predictable and derivative.

 

I, for one, will go into the next film spoiler-free and with no preconceived expectations. Then I'll have to endure everyone else's disappointment because it didn't live up to their expectations.

 

Or I could just quit the boards and avoid reading about everything 'wrong' with the film from multiple, conflicting perspectives.



#10 Surrie

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 04:48 PM

 

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality....

 

Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs

I imagine you being the first to complain that the film is too predictable and derivative.

 

I, for one, will go into the next film spoiler-free and with no preconceived expectations. Then I'll have to endure everyone else's disappointment because it didn't live up to their expectations.

 

Or I could just quit the boards and avoid reading about everything 'wrong' with the film from multiple, conflicting perspectives.

 

 

But what's the fun in that!?  ;)



#11 Shrublands

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:06 PM

This (of course) could be what is planed. Anyone could make it up and stand a good chance of being right.

 

But this story originated in The Daily Star, all the other reports are taken from there.

The Star has consistently just invented Bond stories over the years, with bogus sources every time. 



#12 tdalton

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:10 PM

This (of course) could be what is planed. Anyone could make it up and stand a good chance of being right.

 

But this story originated in The Daily Star, all the other reports are taken from there.

The Star has consistently just invented Bond stories over the years, with bogus sources every time. 

 

Agreed.  No reason to believe this report.  If they were talking about another actor who hadn't already been in a Bond film, we'd just toss it out along with all of the other tabloid nonsense.  

 

Is there a decent chance that Waltz is returning?  Yes, if Craig returns as Bond.  As you said, anyone could say that and stand a decent chance of being right.  Maybe I should start my own publication and claim that Ralph Fiennes and Naomie Harris are returning for the next one and pick up all sorts of credibility when the inevitable proves to be true.



#13 sharpshooter

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:27 PM

But since I was underwhelmed by Waltz as Blofeld I wouldn´t mind another guy going for it.
 
On the other hand, maybe one more film giving Waltz as Blofeld more room to establish himself would be the way to remedy what was underachieving in SPECTRE.

I thought he did a good job, but I can see why some people were underwhelmed with this Blofeld. Waltz was very much going for the unruffled, steady speaking type who didn't lash out and lose his cool. If he returns, hopefully we see that side of him which allows for more possibility to chew the scenery.

#14 tdalton

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:29 PM

I don't see EON recasting Blofeld as long as Craig remains in the role.  If Craig is there it's either Waltz or they move on to another character.  I can't see audiences buying the idea of changing actors from one film to the next in the way that they didn't seem to care about it in the late 60s and early 70s.  Even if they could get away with it using the plastic surgery idea, that will most likely be roundly mocked by the general public.

 

Hopefully Waltz is able to take the menace he'd finally given the character in the third of his three scenes, after he'd gotten the scar, and carry that into the next film.  After Blofeld gets the scar was the only point in the film where he was a worthwhile character.  Waltz played him with some actual menace at that point rather than the spoiled crybaby with daddy issues he'd been to that point.



#15 David_M

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

I don't see any need for Waltz or Blofeld to return.

 

Unlike "classic" SPECTRE, which lurked behind multiple early films and gradually built up to Blofeld's reveal over time, this new version popped up out of nowhere, fully formed, and was taken out by Bond in the course of one film.   Thus, it's nowhere near "essential" to future installments, as far as I'm concerned. Retro-actively declaring Waltz-Blofeld "the architect" of all the earlier Craig films was a compartively lazy and half-baked attempt to embue him and his new SPECTRE with gravitas, and ultimately an unconvincing one. In the end it's just another "one-off" threat as far as I'm concerned, no more deserving of a callback than Drax or Carver.

 

On the other hand,  I admit it would be cool to finally see Blofeld played by the same actor twice.



#16 Tiin007

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:43 PM

 

If Waltz is willing to sign on for two more, then my dream scenario could become a reality....

 

Imagine Bond 25 with Blofeld almost like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs

I imagine you being the first to complain that the film is too predictable and derivative.

 

I, for one, will go into the next film spoiler-free and with no preconceived expectations. Then I'll have to endure everyone else's disappointment because it didn't live up to their expectations.

 

Or I could just quit the boards and avoid reading about everything 'wrong' with the film from multiple, conflicting perspectives.

 

 

Actually, no. I would be quite pleased. Predictable and derivative are rarely my issues with movies, particularly the Bond franchise. 

 

And for the record, I love all four of Craig's films. I enjoyed SPECTRE more than probably all of my friends and relatives. Despite the fact that I find flaws in them (as I stated above), I still think the series has done a lot of good in recent years. 

 

Am I now entitled to share my ideas for how to make things even better than they currently are?  :)



#17 Professor Pi

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:10 AM

This topic is also discussed in the "Where do you want the movie series to go after SPECTRE?" thread.

 

As for the 60s continuity, keep in mind they had yet to adapt all the books, (retconning the Dr. No and FRWL novels to have SPECTRE villains.)  They flubbed the You Only Live Twice novel, and then had to rewrite Diamonds Are Forever's script to follow OHMSS. 

 

But Dr. No through YOLT was only six years.  Even counting 1971's DAF, that's nine years of Bond battling SPECTRE.  Daniel Craig has been Bond now for 9 years too, but only four movies.  The fact that SPECTRE retconned his first three films makes sense because EON didn't have the rights and Quantum was an obvious stand in.  Did they try to do too much with SPECTRE?  Probably.  But with no more books and larger gaps between films, they're unable to crank out 5-7 movies with an eye toward continuity.  The last seven films took them 18 years, the first seven were made in 9.

 

It'd be nice to have Waltz back, but it might be a story planted to sweeten the distribution deal.  Or click-bait from a questionable source.



#18 tdalton

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:27 AM

It would be nice, though, that now that EON is trying to build continuity in the films and audiences generally expect it a bit more than they used to, that EON could make a better effort of it.  They introduced Quantum only to drop the organization a couple of films later and fold it into SPECTRE.  They could have easily kept going with Quantum and held SPECTRE in reserve for Craig's successor.  It's not as though they had any particularly groundbreaking idea to bring SPECTRE back that absolutely needed to be told with Craig's Bond, as the organization itself holds little to no menace in the film and Blofeld's connection with Bond is nothing short of a joke.  



#19 Jim

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:41 AM

If he wasn't Blofeld and all the associations that both fandom and complacent film-making bring to that name, would we really be bothered? Divested of all of that, was there really sufficient impact to need / want a return?

#20 Dustin

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:56 AM

No, don't think so. I'm not even sure I'd wonder what happened to him afterwards. No more probably than I wonder about Koskov.

#21 Guy Haines

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 08:53 AM

I don't see EON recasting Blofeld as long as Craig remains in the role. If Craig is there it's either Waltz or they move on to another character. I can't see audiences buying the idea of changing actors from one film to the next in the way that they didn't seem to care about it in the late 60s and early 70s. Even if they could get away with it using the plastic surgery idea, that will most likely be roundly mocked by the general public.

Hopefully Waltz is able to take the menace he'd finally given the character in the third of his three scenes, after he'd gotten the scar, and carry that into the next film. After Blofeld gets the scar was the only point in the film where he was a worthwhile character. Waltz played him with some actual menace at that point rather than the spoiled crybaby with daddy issues he'd been to that point.

Interesting point you make about the change in Waltz's performance in SPECTRE. There's more than a hint of it in the torture scene when "Oberhauser", taunted by Bond's "bird calls" line, gets up close and personal and tells Bond what he now calls himself, and then of course we have the other "reunion" in the remains of the MI6 building - when of course, he's got the scar.

We've had four whole movies about "Bond becoming Bond". Was one point about SPECTRE - mangled in the re-writes and attempts to throw everything bar the kitchen sink into the story - an attempt to tell how Blofeld became Blofeld? And we only truly see him as Blofeld when when Bond catches up with him back in London, he turns to face 007, and there is that trademark scar?

(For the record, I think the film might have been better off dropping the family/rivalry issues between Bond and Oberhauser and just reimaging Blofeld, just as M, Q and Moneypenny were revamped for the Craig era, but that's just my view.)

#22 Professor Pi

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 11:39 AM

 

(For the record, I think the film might have been better off dropping the family/rivalry issues between Bond and Oberhauser and just reimaging Blofeld, just as M, Q and Moneypenny were revamped for the Craig era, but that's just my view.)

 

 

I think everyone agrees with you on this!



#23 Guy Haines

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:47 PM

(For the record, I think the film might have been better off dropping the family/rivalry issues between Bond and Oberhauser and just reimaging Blofeld, just as M, Q and Moneypenny were revamped for the Craig era, but that's just my view.)

 
I think everyone agrees with you on this!

About the family/rivalry stuff, probably yes, but re-imaging of Blofeld, for me, would have included more than that - it would have meant dropping, or at least modifying the props we associate with the character. In SPECTRE we got all three - the jacket, the cat and the facial scar. An actor like Christoph Waltz didn't need any to create a convincing Blofeld, given more screen time. Or maybe one - the cat, perhaps. Since the story didn't allow Blofeld as much screen time as we might have hoped - and since there was all that "Franz Oberhauser" stuff first - it's as if the writers wanted the audience to be in no doubt about who this fellow really is even if it meant reviving some things about him we haven't seen since the 1960s.

#24 Tiin007

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:13 PM

Obviously we should all take this with a grain of salt, but British tabloids are claiming that EON are attempting to persuade Craig to stay on for two more Bond films, with the caveat that they will be filmed back-to-back. My assumption is that this rumor stemmed from the previous rumor of Waltz's willingness to do two more so long as Craig signs on. 

 

http://www.thesun.co...-Bond-film.html

 

Thoughts?



#25 Surrie

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:33 PM

"In Spring we start again...". We will just have to wait and see!



#26 tdalton

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:41 PM

I doubt we'll know anything about what they're doing in the spring, aside from maybe who the new (hopefully) writers are.  Most of that time would be most likely spent getting the basic idea for the next film nailed down . 



#27 Surrie

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:47 PM

I doubt we'll know anything about what they're doing in the spring, aside from maybe who the new (hopefully) writers are.  Most of that time would be most likely spent getting the basic idea for the next film nailed down . 

 

Hopefully they will take their time when doing this - let's hope for a great story!



#28 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:56 PM

If this is true I wonder how these two films will be released.  A film with a cliffhanger should be followed by the conclusion within two (Star Wars-style) and not three years.  

 

Heck, even better within one (Back to the future-wise)

 

Pro: Two more Craig movies with him being the same age before he grows too old.

 

Con: Hasn´t Craig already given everything he wanted as Bond?  And is this back-to-back filming with cliffhanger not too much of a Marvel/Disney-construct?


 

I doubt we'll know anything about what they're doing in the spring, aside from maybe who the new (hopefully) writers are.  Most of that time would be most likely spent getting the basic idea for the next film nailed down . 

 

Hopefully they will take their time when doing this - let's hope for a great story!

 

 

I hope not.  Taking their time has proven not to yield better results, only more second-guessing and meddling.



#29 sharpshooter

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 04:02 PM

"In Spring we start again...". We will just have to wait and see!


It's still too early for anything to be confirmed in my view, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

#30 Tiin007

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 04:04 PM

If this is true I wonder how these two films will be released.  A film with a cliffhanger should be followed by the conclusion within two (Star Wars-style) and not three years.  

 

Heck, even better within one (Back to the future-wise)

 

Pro: Two more Craig movies with him being the same age before he grows too old.

 

Con: Hasn´t Craig already given everything he wanted as Bond?  And is this back-to-back filming with cliffhanger not too much of a Marvel/Disney-construct?

 

If true, I think we'd be looking at either a year or a year and a half gap between the two. Keeps the momentum going.

 

Also, I would prefer it if the first film is somewhat toned down compared to, say, SPECTRE. Give the movie an intimate feel, limiting the scope and the action set-pieces. No reason we can't have a lot of the fistfights and raw physicality that were a staple of Craig-Bond in CR and QoS. This would also keep the budget down after the supposed budget fiasco of SPECTRE.

 

Then I'd say go all-out with the second film, setting up the payoff of the explosions and villain's lair, etc...

 

As for your concern that this whole idea would be "too much of a Marvel/Disney-construct," the Bond films for decades have been tapping in to what's popular cinema-wise at any point in time (to varying degrees of success). I'd be perfectly fine if we looked back at this decades from now as "that time EON went the Marvel route," just as we now look at MR as Star Wars, LTK as Miami Vice, and SF as The Dark Knight. And if it allows  us to get two more out of Craig, then I am all for this idea.