18 replies to this topic

[00Kevin]

One thing I think was lacking in spectre was a real memorable scene to cement the childhood link between bond and blofeld. We were yold about it many times but we never saw it. I think the next bond film would benefit by opening on a flashback to when they were children ala lord of the rings return of the king. I think they need to show us something to become a little more invested and this would realy cement the rivalry. I could imagine that we see the moments the seeds of jealousy really churn in blofelds stomach and his hatred of bond come to fruition. This could easily segway into a scene where blofeld reminisces from prison and presents the theme of blofelds revenge.

Edited by Vauxhall, 10 November 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[glidrose]

This thread should probably have had a more ambiguous title and a spoiler warning. After all, the film's not been released everywhere yet, has it?

[Vauxhall]

This thread should probably have had a more ambiguous title and a spoiler warning. After all, the film's not been released everywhere yet, has it?

Correct. Done.

[glidrose]

Thanks Vauxhall. Tho' I don't mind spoilers - I actively seek them out - other people can get quite sensitive (read: hysterical).

[DavidJones]

It definitely needed a flashback. Or anecdotes from Oberhouser talking about their childhood.

[Vauxhall]

Same - and we're not too far off the movie being available everywhere now.

As for the original post, I'm not a fan of flashbacks at all for this sort of film. I imagine there would definitely be more references to their respective pasts, but I don't really feel I need to see it. If it's written/acted well, the characters should be able to get the sense over anyway.

[dtuba]

No. I've had enough references to Bond's childhood for one lifetime.

 

The next film(s) should quit mining the past for plot points, and concentrate on the here and now.

[Guy Haines]

I don't think the next film needs it. We've got Blofeld's rationale, although I don't think it is the whole explanation for SPECTRE the syndicate by a long way. I just don't accept the idea that everything ESB did since young Bond's two winters with Hannes Oberhauser was down to those two winters.

[sharpshooter]

I wouldn't have wanted a flashback. The old photograph was enough. 

[Guy Haines]

I wouldn't have wanted a flashback. The old photograph was enough.

Exactly. The mystery when Bond first looks at it in his flat of just who is the third person whose face has burned out of the photograph. Answered when Bond attends the SPECTRE meeting. Confirmed when Bond reached SPECTRE's desert base.

[sharpshooter]

Indeed. And Madeleine has her own photograph with Mr White placed at the desert base, too. Madeleine and Bond are two people at different ends of the spy game, but nonetheless they are joined together. And they are both good people. Their fathers, real and foster, have a connection to Blofeld and die as a result of him. White develops a conscience but was nonetheless a bad man doing bad things. However street smart Madeleine may be, she didn't follow in his foot steps. Oberhauser Snr would've been a decent human being. He lent a helping hand to someone in need, i.e. Bond. And we all know Bond went on to fight for Queen and country, against people like Madeleine's father. 

[DaveBond21]

Did Blofeld wait until Bond had definitely survived the Hinx fight on the train before he put those photos up in the rooms of his desert base?

[Professor Pi]

Did Blofeld wait until Bond had definitely survived the Hinx fight on the train before he put those photos up in the rooms of his desert base?

 

I don't think Blofeld knew Hinx's involvement on the train.  I'm not even sure how much he could have briefed him between the end of the SPECTRE meeting and the car chase.  He might have been told to kidnap Madeleine, which he failed thanks to Bond.  So then Hinx is just out to kill Bond.  Maybe his orders are still to bring in Swann?  The best explanation is that he's a rogue henchman at this point, having followed the lead to L'American and then, presumably, putting the pieces together from the secret room.

 

There's no "Let them get ashore ... and them kill them" scene to explain it.

[Guy Haines]

There's one way Blofeld could have known that Bond was on his way to Morocco - through Denbigh. "C" was spying on everyone in MI5/MI6 and could have tipped ESB off that 007 was on his way. Denbigh could even have accessed the "nano blood" project which kept track on Bond, for all we know. Granted, M ordered it to be terminated when he realised - after Q's return to London, presumably - that Bond was on to something big. But by then it would have been too late. Hinx may have had orders to kill. But - I'm guessing again here! - if Blofeld had access to surveillance technology including spy satellites, he'd have noticed two people getting off the train rather than one large bloke, put two and two together and decide that he'd have to bring Bond and Madeleine into his secret lair to finish 007 off (And of course do some serious villainous gloating! -) )

[Professor Pi]

Good point.  All the more reason to send in the military for a big crater battle.

 

Another thing I noticed, and no one seems to have mentioned it if they caught it, is the road block in the London finale that sends M's and Bond's car into the tunnel where SPECTRE goons smash them.  I'm thinking Blofeld set that up to steer Bond into checking out his photo gallery.

[Major Tallon]

I took a look at the order of temporary guardianship that allowed Franz Oberhauser to have temporary custody of young James.  In addition to standard verbiage (for example, allowing Oberhauser to obtain medical care for young James), it provides some insights into Craig's version of James's biography. 

 

The order was entered in the Family Division of the Canterbury Sheriff's Court, notable because the village of Pett Bottom (where Fleming tells us his guardian, Miss Charmian Bond, resided) is one which I believe to be located within the jurisdiction of the Canterbury courts.  The temporary guardianship was to begin on or about noon on 21 January 1985, when James was age twelve.  This would most likely make his year of birth 1972, making him somewhat younger than Daniel Craig, who was born in 1968.

 

This isn't a lot of biographical detail, but I thought I'd pass it along.

[MattofSteel]

There's a fundamental script problem and no way to explain around it - and it's bigger than Hinx on the train. Blofeld/SPECTRE try and kill Bond at least three times, which simply doesn't align with Blofeld's expectation and anticipation of getting to lure Bond to Africa and repeatedly chat him up Bond-villain style trying to make his point and rub it in.

 

Hinx clearly isn't trying to "capture" Bond in the car chase. He's trying to kill him. As he is in the snow sequence. And on the train. And yet, Blofeld is clearly reveling in having Bond visit him in Africa and treats the chance to gloat as if it was his plan all along. "I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this!"

 

It's utter nonsense. The only possible explanation is that Hinx is so pissed at Bond after the Rome intrusion that he literally goes rogue from SPECTRE high command mere seconds after obtaining his position and singlemindedly approaches the rest of the film with a "Bond must die!" attitude. But even that doesn't make sense, because its clear he still has SPECTRE backing and resources in Austria.

 

It's a macro-level script problem that's likely the product of the development problems behind the scenes. A pretty basic case of a blockbuster film knowingly sacrificing procedural logic it doesn't think the audience cares about to present the cinematic experience it thinks the audience wants. A real shame: so much is so good about SPECTRE that if the outcome of its writing process had been a little more considered and avoided those kinds of gaping holes, I've no doubt we'd have a Bond film on our hands with Skyfall levels of near-universal acclaim. 

 

Ironically, we blame the writers.

[DaveBond21]

There's a fundamental script problem and no way to explain around it - and it's bigger than Hinx on the train. Blofeld/SPECTRE try and kill Bond at least three times, which simply doesn't align with Blofeld's expectation and anticipation of getting to lure Bond to Africa and repeatedly chat him up Bond-villain style trying to make his point and rub it in.

 

Hinx clearly isn't trying to "capture" Bond in the car chase. He's trying to kill him. As he is in the snow sequence. And on the train. And yet, Blofeld is clearly reveling in having Bond visit him in Africa and treats the chance to gloat as if it was his plan all along. "I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this!"

 

It's utter nonsense. The only possible explanation is that Hinx is so pissed at Bond after the Rome intrusion that he literally goes rogue from SPECTRE high command mere seconds after obtaining his position and singlemindedly approaches the rest of the film with a "Bond must die!" attitude. But even that doesn't make sense, because its clear he still has SPECTRE backing and resources in Austria.

 

It's a macro-level script problem that's likely the product of the development problems behind the scenes. A pretty basic case of a blockbuster film knowingly sacrificing procedural logic it doesn't think the audience cares about to present the cinematic experience it thinks the audience wants. A real shame: so much is so good about SPECTRE that if the outcome of its writing process had been a little more considered and avoided those kinds of gaping holes, I've no doubt we'd have a Bond film on our hands with Skyfall levels of near-universal acclaim. 

 

Ironically, we blame the writers.

 

True but Drax and Stromberg do the same thing. I agree it's confusing.

 

And I think the shot of Hinx looking up at the CCTV camera in Mr White's place is deliberate and possibly Hinx is responsible for bringing the tape of White's suicide to Blofeld, before heading out to "greet" Bond on the train.

 

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[Vauxhall]

And I think the shot of Hinx looking up at the CCTV camera in Mr White's place is deliberate and possibly Hinx is responsible for bringing the tape of White's suicide to Blofeld, before heading out to "greet" Bond on the train.

 

 

Yes, or it's Hinx realising that the very presence of a CCTV camera there means he knows that Blofeld will have hacked it or accessed it remotely, and will know what had happened in the room.