71 replies to this topic

[whaleman]

Two thoughts: 1) Spectre was responsible for roping Vesper in with the phony kidnapping of her boyfriend so that ended up leading to her death.

2) Blofeld hates bond so much that he might be taking credit for something that's not exactly accurate for the purpose of inflicting pain or even telling himself that he did this to bond who he hates so much.

[Tiin007]

Also, as M told Bond at the end of Casino Royale regarding Vesper: "She must've known she was going to her death."

 

Indeed, had Bond not interfered, it is quite likely that Gettler (eye patch) was instructed to kill Vesper after receiving the money. So Blofeld probably wrote her death warrant anyway.

 

It's even possible that Blofeld wasn't aware of the specifics of what happened in the sinking Venice building-- just that there was a shoot-out and Vesper died. Granted, White knew that "if she hadn't killed herself, we would've had you too." But that doesn't mean that he gave Blofeld all the specific details. 

[sharpshooter]

2) Blofeld hates bond so much that he might be taking credit for something that's not exactly accurate for the purpose of inflicting pain or even telling himself that he did this to bond who he hates so much.

Yes. It's his way of regaining control after Bond calls him nothing but a voyeur, sitting back and not getting involved with the action himself. 

[rafterman]

I think it's a bluff. There is absolutely no way he planned those actions. I feel that those events unfolded how we saw them. Blofeld at some point realized who Bond was and enjoyed taking credit for all the bad things that happened to him. I love connecting everything so much, but it doesn't feel like a truly orchestrated plan. But as a boast? Sure, that I buy. I would have preferred they weren't foster brothers, but it's the one thing that gives Blofeld motivation.

[Walecs]

I think it's a bluff. There is absolutely no way he planned those actions. I feel that those events unfolded how we saw them. Blofeld at some point realized who Bond was and enjoyed taking credit for all the bad things that happened to him. I love connecting everything so much, but it doesn't feel like a truly orchestrated plan. But as a boast? Sure, that I buy. I would have preferred they weren't foster brothers, but it's the one thing that gives Blofeld motivation.

 

Wasn't the fact that Bond had interfered with all Blofeld's operations enough?

[Professor Pi]

 

 

Saw it again. It still niggles at me that Oberhauser claims Vesper's death as his work.

I wish Bond had replied with "They made their own choices." (referring to Vesper's suicide).

Spoiler

That would prompt Oberhauser playing White's suicide ("Indeed. You'd know all about that, wouldn't you, James?")

Then the replaying of White's suicide would not only be emotional torture of Madeleine, but a classic "We're the same" moment from Blofeld - twisting the truth to imply he and Bond both manipulate others into doing their work for them. ("All we do is provide the weapon, eh, James?")

The scene could play out the same, and have the same resolution ("Look at me, Madeleine!"). All it takes is two more lines from Blofeld: one to segue into the CCTV footage, and another while the footage plays.

Missed opportunity.

That I like! Those two lines or something like them added to that scene would have really allowed further twisting of the knife and made Madeleine's decision a bit later more credible.

 

 

Indeed, good idea. Can't believe they didn't pick up on that. Maybe the echo of the Scaramanga-Bond exchange in SKYFALL with Silva being an earlier Bond-version prevented them from playing the trick again. It would have sounded like dialogue from the previous film. But it would also have improved considerably on what we got here.

 

Thanks! Good point Dustin, I hadn't thought how Silva's character might have put them off it. But since SP includes so many classic tropes, why not that one too? 

 

Still, as you say Guy Haines, I feel if they'd done something like that, it would've improved Madeleine and Oberhauser. 

 

 

Reading this post, it just occurred to me when Oberhauser starts playing the video of Mr. White, Bond doesn't want Madeleine to experience the pain he felt witnessing Vesper's suicide.  So much symmetry in this movie.

[The Shark]

'It's like poetry. it rhymes.'

[Royal Dalton]

[Gobi-1]

Reading this post, it just occurred to me when Oberhauser starts playing the video of Mr. White, Bond doesn't want Madeleine to experience the pain he felt witnessing Vesper's suicide.  So much symmetry in this movie.

 

 

I also like how White's line "You're a kite dancing in a hurricane." has an even greater impact when Bond now finds himself in the eye of the storm.

[SecretAgentFan]

Interestingly, for me the moment in which Bond wants Madeleine not to look felt weird to me.

 

He has told her already that he was with her father when he killed himself.  So it would not be a surprise for her that he supplied the weapon.

 

I would have preferred Madeleine looking at the scene the whole time - concluding that it was not Bond´s fault at all, thereby really disappointing Blofeld.

[Professor Pi]

Yes, but I think its the visual Bond wants to spare Madeleine of.  We even see Vesper drowning in the titles, so while Bond discards the interrogation tape, he can't get the image out of his head.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Yes, but I think its the visual Bond wants to spare Madeleine of.  We even see Vesper drowning in the titles, so while Bond discards the interrogation tape, he can't get the image out of his head.

Yeah, he's not worried about Madeleine seeing him give White his gun. As was mentioned, he'd already admitted to being present at her father's death. Rather, he's thinking of Madeleine and her emotional well-being. He's trying to protect her from watching her father commit suicide. Who would want to watch that of their parents? If she did, she wouldn't be able to get that image out of her head and would undoubtedly need some psychotherapy (perhaps extensively) to get over it.