20 replies to this topic

[Vauxhall]

I know some have noted the similarities with Colonel Sun in one of the scenes, but was impressed to see a thanks to the Estate of Kingsley Amis in the credits. Not just a coincidence then.

[Arbogast777]

I was just thinking today - have we ever had material from a continuation novel show up in a movie before?

[plankattack]

I was just thinking today - have we ever had material from a continuation novel show up in a movie before?

 

Kind of. P & W apparently had wanted to make use Colonel Sun in DAD, but had to change it to Moon. Legal issues I suspect, which is why the Amis estate is thanked here.

 

There is  a lot of great Fleming that is still "lost" by the film series  (Castle of Death for example) - Amis' effort should count in there as IMHO, there's Fleming, then Colonel Sun, and then continuation novels (to be fair have not read Trigger Mortis yet). 

[sharpshooter]

I know some have noted the similarities with Colonel Sun in one of the scenes, but was impressed to see a thanks to the Estate of Kingsley Amis in the credits. Not just a coincidence then.

That's very decent of them. I have the new paperback of Colonel Sun arriving either today or tomorrow, so I'm definitely up for a re-read now. 

 

As for the SPECTRE scene, just how close is it to the book? 

[SecretAgent007]

There are a few things from some of the John Gardner novels that were used as well.  One example is the scene in AVTAK at the horse race.  It is lifted from a Gardner novel, including the name of at least one horse.

[Guy Haines]

I know some have noted the similarities with Colonel Sun in one of the scenes, but was impressed to see a thanks to the Estate of Kingsley Amis in the credits. Not just a coincidence then.

That's very decent of them. I have the new paperback of Colonel Sun arriving either today or tomorrow, so I'm definitely up for a re-read now. 
 
As for the SPECTRE scene, just how close is it to the book?

Without wishing to give the scene away

Spoiler

It is a sort of updated "hi tech" version of it in terms of setting, and some of the dialogue used is very similar to the scene in the book. It also references an earlier scene in the film.

[thecasinoroyale]

I've only read 'Colonel Sun' once and can't remember it - which bit was in 'SPECTRE'?

[Guy Haines]

I've only read 'Colonel Sun' once and can't remember it - which bit was in 'SPECTRE'?

This;

Spoiler

The hi-tech torture scene in Blofeld's HQ. There's a chapter in the novel in which Bond is similarly tortured but with no hi-tech instruments. The dialogue from Blofeld is also similar.

[thecasinoroyale]

Ahh right! Interesting - thanks for that.

[The Shark]

Some geeky questions re: this scene.

 

Spoiler

Wouldn't Bond be brain damaged after the drilling? Bond experiencing crippling migraines or seizures would have made the crater base escape more compelling. All premise, no follow through.

 

How is Bond still able to recognise Madeleine's face after having his fusiform gyrus destroyed?

 

Was Bloferhauser's drill faulty?

 

BTW, along with Colonel Sun--SPECTRE's scene might have been inspired by something similar in American Sniper, which was based on the methods of torture and execution of Shiite militias in Iraq and what was previously known as the Badr Brigade.

[SecretAgentFan]

Your questions are absolutely valid - and in a realistic universe the film would have ended there.

 

But in Bond-world... well, even squashed testicles doesn´t mean you can´t still be The Stud.

[The Shark]

True, but at least we saw Bond recover by Lake Como.

 

And who's to say the ball bashing didn't render Bond infertile? That would explain a lot.

[Major Tallon]

I'm wondering whether Amis' estate received payment for this acknowledged use of story material from Colonel Sun.

[sharpshooter]

True, but at least we saw Bond recover by Lake Como.

 

And who's to say the ball bashing didn't render Bond infertile? That would explain a lot.

Spoiler

Perhaps it's not a matter of Blofeld's tools being incompetent. Rather Bond being lucky the needles didn't hit their sweet spots. Maybe if he spent any longer on the chair he wouldn't have been so fortunate? So he would've had a sore head but no serious long term damage.

That's my current reasoning without having seen the film! 

[Walecs]

I'm wondering whether Amis' estate received payment for this acknowledged use of story material from Colonel Sun.

 

I think they did, because they were credited in the ending titles.

[Dustin]

Some geeky questions re: this scene.

Spoiler

Wouldn't Bond be brain damaged after the drilling? Bond experiencing crippling migraines or seizures would have made the crater base escape more compelling. All premise, no follow through.

How is Bond still able to recognise Madeleine's face after having his fusiform gyrus destroyed?

Was Bloferhauser's drill faulty?

No real explanation for that - other than 'flexible reality'. Anybody else would have been turned into a squashed orange; and for good, not just for a brief moment.

[MattofSteel]

Just got out of seeing it a second time. I was confused about it too in my first screening, so I paid really close attention this go round. 

 

Blofeld's dialogue seems to go out of it's way to mention that if the drill hits the correct spot, it will render Bond's memory damaged. The strong implication I get from the scene is that it simply misses the precise placement - Bond gets lucky. He's sort of stunned momentarily by the shock/potential of it and it was no doubt uncomfortably close - it's probably his most truly vulnerable moment of the film - which is when Madelaine swoops in and he's reenergized by her presence.

 

Actually kind of a beautiful moment.

 

Ironic - it came from the Kingsley Amis novel, but that whole sequence feels like one of the most Fleming moments of the whole film.

[Pushkin]

Absolutely loved it and though its probably been a decade since I read the novel, I immediately thought of Colonel Sun once the scene got going. Thought they did a nice job of interpreting that scene in the film. 

Edited by Pushkin, 07 November 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Professor Pi]

I thought of Colonel Sun too, though forgot the specifics of the scene.  And missed the credits, but haven't read through them yet despite two viewings.  Next time.  i do remember Colonel Sun is one of the few, if not only, villains to refer to Bond as "James."  Very intimate and disturbing.

 

But why would Franz be so careless as to not restrain Madeline too?  And don't these villain lairs have fire protection systems (think LTK/QoS)? 

 

Bond was very lucky.  Just as Silva's cyanide should have killed him but didn't, it's a tiny probability thing, but possible.  Also, it reminded me of the ending of the movie "Pi" where a character survives a very specific, and intentional, drilling into the head.

 

Counting TWINE, we now have four chair torture scenes!

[Double-Oh Agent]

Just got out of seeing it a second time. I was confused about it too in my first screening, so I paid really close attention this go round. 

 

Blofeld's dialogue seems to go out of it's way to mention that if the drill hits the correct spot, it will render Bond's memory damaged. The strong implication I get from the scene is that it simply misses the precise placement - Bond gets lucky. He's sort of stunned momentarily by the shock/potential of it and it was no doubt uncomfortably close - it's probably his most truly vulnerable moment of the film - which is when Madelaine swoops in and he's reenergized by her presence.

 

Actually kind of a beautiful moment.

 

Ironic - it came from the Kingsley Amis novel, but that whole sequence feels like one of the most Fleming moments of the whole film.

I agree. He does say IF the drill hits the correct spot then Bond won't be able to recognize anyone. But Bond does recognize Madeleine so iit obviously doesn't hit the right spot. However, I don't see it as Bond getting lucky. I just think it's another way for Blofeld to psychologically torture Bond (and Madeleine). He's making him/them suffer for a little while before he finally goes ahead and finishes Bond off. He's like a cat playing with a mouse.

 

I thought of Colonel Sun too, though forgot the specifics of the scene.  And missed the credits, but haven't read through them yet despite two viewings.  Next time.  i do remember Colonel Sun is one of the few, if not only, villains to refer to Bond as "James."  Very intimate and disturbing.

 

But why would Franz be so careless as to not restrain Madeline too?  And don't these villain lairs have fire protection systems (think LTK/QoS)? 

 

Bond was very lucky.  Just as Silva's cyanide should have killed him but didn't, it's a tiny probability thing, but possible.  Also, it reminded me of the ending of the movie "Pi" where a character survives a very specific, and intentional, drilling into the head.

 

Counting TWINE, we now have four chair torture scenes!

I didn't see Blofeld's lair as accidentally blowing up. It was too neat and complete (and is probably why Bond said it wasn't over). Rather, I saw it as Blofeld purposely self-destructing the base to cover his tracks and make his getaway a la Blofeld's actions in You Only Live Twice.

[Professor Pi]

Interesting point.  Don't we see Blofeld activate the self-destruct in YOLT?  I suppose at the end of the day it blows up because it's in a Bond film.