23 replies to this topic

[RMc2]

Now that Spectre's resolved Mr White's arc, it occurs to me that he may be the most successful movie Bond villain ever.

 

Casino Royale: Mr White wants to eliminate Le Chiffre and recover the money he lost. He succeeds.

 

Quantum of Solace: Mr White wants to escape from Bond. He succeeds.

 

Spoiler

Spectre: Mr White wants to protect his daughter's life and stop Blofeld. He succeeds.

 

He even ends things on his own terms.

 

Well done, Mr White.

Edited by RMc2, 27 October 2015 - 11:38 PM.

[Guy Haines]

Jesper Christensen created a character out of a cameo that we are still talking about even now. Talk about a "riddle wrapped in an enigma". We are still no wiser about him - I'm not even convinced that "White" was his real name. But in SPECTRE we learn that;

Spoiler

He has a daughter he cares about. And that SPECTRE has, in his opinion, gone too far in its plans. Which seem to me to be cornering the market in every evil you can think of - including terrorism, and it is strongly hinted, people trafficking and white slavery.

He is definitely the answer to a future quiz question is Mr White - the only villain to have appeared in three Bond films played by the same actor and by the terms you set, a success.

[RMc2]

Jesper Christensen created a character out of a cameo that we are still talking about even now. Talk about a "riddle wrapped in an enigma". We are still no wiser about him - I'm not even convinced that "White" was his real name. But in SPECTRE we learn that;

Spoiler

He has a daughter he cares about. And that SPECTRE has, in his opinion, gone too far in its plans. Which seem to me to be cornering the market in every evil you can think of - including terrorism, and it is strongly hinted, people trafficking and white slavery.

He is definitely the answer to a future quiz question is Mr White - the only villain to have appeared in three Bond films played by the same actor and by the terms you set, a success.

 

I do love that they left enough about him to remain ambiguous. A little mystery goes a long way.

 

Although,

Spoiler

Does his codename, 'The Pale King', imply his real name is indeed Mr White? I still prefer to think of White as a cover name, but why would Spectre have a code for a cover name? Odd.

[Vauxhall]

Perhaps Mr Swann.

[thecasinoroyale]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

[Guy Haines]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...
 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

[antovolk]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

Spoiler

"Our game is our game. But this? Women? Children? "
"Oh, it seems you've grown a conscience."

Also I love the later moment at the SPECTRE control room where Blofeld plays Madeleine Bond's meeting with her father.

[Vauxhall]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

Spoiler

"Our game is our game. But this? Women? Children? "
"Oh, it seems you've grown a conscience."

Also I love the later moment at the SPECTRE control room where Blofeld plays Madeleine Bond's meeting with her father.

Really liked that, and the fact he played the video in full without ending it early.

[Guy Haines]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

Spoiler

"Our game is our game. But this? Women? Children? "
"Oh, it seems you've grown a conscience."
Also I love the later moment at the SPECTRE control room where Blofeld plays Madeleine Bond's meeting with her father.

Really liked that, and the fact he played the video in full without ending it early.

The control room scene is one of the most dramatic in the movie.

Spoiler

And heartbreaking for Madeleine. You can tell she still felt something for her father - and he for her. Amid the items in the "secret room" - such as the unseen video of Vesper being interrogated - we see the family photos of White and his daughter. I doubt we ever had a Bond villain with a more "normal" backstory. Talk about the "banality of evil". As for White's conscience - I think the SPECTRE meeting hints at that. The operative talking about trafficking adulterated drugs. The woman boasting about SPECTRE's involvement in trafficking females "into the leisure industry" - an obvious reference to white slavery prostitution. A modern SPECTRE wouldn't be involved in grand schemes such as hijacking nuclear bombers or spacecraft - it would indeed be involved in grubby, down and dirty stuff like this. And terrorist outrages. And money laundering, and monopoly capitalist market cornering. In fact everything Bond has been up against since CR. But it seems SPECTRE has gone too far even for White.

One other thing about Mr White;

Spoiler

Am I right in thinking that he's already dying when Bond finally meets him? That he's been poisoned by SPECTRE? In which case, why bother sending Hinx and his goon squad to finish the job? Unless he's taking too long to slip his mortal coil? Plus there's the little matter of his daughter being nearby, who might know a thing or two about SPECTRE - as it turns out, she does!

[antovolk]

The control room scene is one of the most dramatic in the movie.

Spoiler

And heartbreaking for Madeleine. You can tell she still felt something for her father - and he for her. Amid the items in the "secret room" - such as the unseen video of Vesper being interrogated - we see the family photos of White and his daughter. I doubt we ever had a Bond villain with a more "normal" backstory. Talk about the "banality of evil". As for White's conscience - I think the SPECTRE meeting hints at that. The operative talking about trafficking adulterated drugs. The woman boasting about SPECTRE's involvement in trafficking females "into the leisure industry" - an obvious reference to white slavery prostitution. A modern SPECTRE wouldn't be involved in grand schemes such as hijacking nuclear bombers or spacecraft - it would indeed be involved in grubby, down and dirty stuff like this. And terrorist outrages. And money laundering, and monopoly capitalist market cornering. In fact everything Bond has been up against since CR. But it seems SPECTRE has gone too far even for White.

Am I right in thinking that he's already dying when Bond finally meets him? That he's been poisoned by SPECTRE? In which case, why bother sending Hinx and his goon squad to finish the job? Unless he's taking too long to slip his mortal coil? Plus there's the little matter of his daughter being nearby, who might know a thing or two about SPECTRE - as it turns out, she does!

Spoiler

Yup - "last month I found thallium in my cellphone...." He's taking too long indeed, even Bond mentions that to Madeleine.

Edited by antovolk, 28 October 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Surrie]

I have to admit I wasn't struck by Mr White in the CR or QOS. However, seeing more character background in SPECTRE was what he needed. I do think the scene where Madeleine is shown the video is one of the best parts!

[Guy Haines]

I have to admit I wasn't struck by Mr White in the CR or QOS. However, seeing more character background in SPECTRE was what he needed. I do think the scene where Madeleine is shown the video is one of the best parts!

Agreed. One of the most dramatic parts of the film.

[RMc2]

 

I have to admit I wasn't struck by Mr White in the CR or QOS. However, seeing more character background in SPECTRE was what he needed. I do think the scene where Madeleine is shown the video is one of the best parts!

Agreed. One of the most dramatic parts of the film.

 

 

Definitely! It might be my favourite scene. Must rewatch it soon!

[RMc2]

 

I thought it was a really nice touch when...
 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

 

 

That's a great fact! Along with Madeleine Swann, are there any other literary references in the film?

[Guy Haines]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...
 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Spoiler

Which considering what White did to Bond - blackmailing the woman 007 had fallen for - and what Bond did to White - a rather nasty leg wound - does show some respect. But White did say something about the "game" played between them, I think? As for "The Pale King" - in real life it is the name of an unfinished novel by an author who took his own life, David Wallace. And as for a better code name it might as well be "The Pale King". "The White Swann" would have given the game away! ;-)

 
That's a great fact! Along with Madeleine Swann, are there any other literary references in the film?

I suppose you could count this one, from a very famous playwright;

Spoiler

King Lear - at one point the eyes of the Earl of Gloucester are gauged out. I've already mentioned on another thread that I was in the theatre for a performance of same and when we got to that bit - nothing shown, all suggested - an audience member fainted. They were after the 12a certificate for SP - my guess is the Hinx scene at the board meeting was cut somewhat.

I have to admit I wasn't struck by Mr White in the CR or QOS. However, seeing more character background in SPECTRE was what he needed. I do think the scene where Madeleine is shown the video is one of the best parts!

Something else occurred to me about the control room scene;

Spoiler

Bond is taunting Oberhauser's manliness. "You're just a voyeur....you like to watch but not join in." Throughout, Bond is subtling needling Oberhauser -even when Oberhauser is actually "needling" him in that torture chair. The cuckoo line and Bond's reaction - "Know any more bird calls.....Franz?" is where Oberhauser comes closest to losing it - he doesn't but you can see he's tempted - and is the trigger for our villain to reveal his, if not true then new name.

[solace]

I loved the way this whole storyline involving Mr White finished. Class

[Guy Haines]

Slightly off topic, I'm amused by the way the trailers misled us, specifically;

Spoiler

"You've got a secret....something you can't tell anyone, because you don't trust anyone". We all thought it was the photograph and paperwork recovered from Skyfall Lodge, didn't we? Not at all. It was a video recording "from beyond the grave".

And;

Q "Do you know what links them all?" Bond "Me"

Wrong again. Le Chiffre, White, Greene, Silva, Sciarra and Quantum - all linked to our villain. At this point still known as Oberhauser.

[Vauxhall]

I'd forgotten about that second bit. The "me" must have been taken from another bit of dialogue in the movie? That's really misleading!

[Double-Oh Agent]

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Something he didn't show to his good friend Rene Mathis in Quantum Of Solace when he just dumped him in the trash. >:(

[Professor Pi]

I loved the way this whole storyline involving Mr White finished. Class

 

This might be my favorite part of the movie.  Also interesting how White trusts Bond to look after his daughter, ala Marc-Ange Draco a bit.

 

"I was always interested to meet you ... "

[Mr Teddy Bear]

 

I thought it was a really nice touch when...

 

Spoiler

...Bond closes White's eyes after he has taken his own life. There's a sign of gratitude and respect there, even regarding their past. I thought that was a tender moment for Bond.

Something he didn't show to his good friend Rene Mathis in Quantum Of Solace when he just dumped him in the trash. >:(

 

 

 I disagree - Bond conveyed that tenderness to Mathis (I recall he closed his eyes also). I'm still not sure why he got thrown in the trash, but I put that down as one of the many Quantum of Solace enigmas. 

[Tarl_Cabot]

interesting thread. I don't see Mr White as a black hat villain but rather a colleague who had conflicting interests than Bond at some point. He did save Bond's life which, btw, actually validates the outragous claim that Blofeld was behind all Bond's suffering. Mr white evolved into a respected ally.

[Guy Haines]

I don't think Mr White was so much a respected ally as fellow professional on the opposite side. Bond would still have issues with him - he was, after all, involved in the blackmail of Bond's first serious love, Vesper Lynd, as the evidence found in the secret room showed. But by the time Bond meets White in Austria, it's history. White is dying - his own "side" have seen to that! He has a daughter to protect. Bond wants information about Oberhauser. White knows that Madeleine can provide that information and trusts that Bond will protect her. More of a mutual deal or "my enemy's enemy is my friend" I think, but there's none of the warmth between Bond and Marc Ange-Draco. There is however a level of mutual respect - "Our game is our game, Mr. Bond".

[sharpshooter]

Good post. White expresses doubt when Bond suggests taking down Franz. But he realises that doesn't matter. He's yesterday's man with nothing left to lose. If there's a chance Bond can bring down Franz and SPECTRE, the people who poisoned his phone, then let him take it. He won't see the outcome either way.