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First female main "heavy" villain in a Bond film?


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#1 JSDude1

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 01:39 PM

There was a recent article on the website cinemablend that discussed actress Jessica Chastain's wish to play a "Bond Villain", and then a brief editorial afterward. Link below to article.

http://www.cinemable...True-87797.html

I think it could be interesting, after all there have been two Bond films (one could argue) with female co-villains: From Russia With Love and The World Is Not Enough. There however has not been a film with a main heavy who was a female. Your thoughts?

#2 hoagy

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 02:34 PM

I gave some thought to your statement.  It's been a while since seeing the film, but please recall that in TWINE the lead villain WAS the lady.  She also was Bond's romantic partner in the film.    The Man Who Felt No Pain -- except, ironically, for feeling TREMENDOUS emotional pain -- was her instrument.

Brining Dr. Christmas Jones into the story was not necessary and created a negative effect on the quality of the movie.  How VERY much better a film it would have been without the nonsense.  It would have highlighted the Lover = Villain dynamic much more distinctly.



#3 AMC Hornet

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:08 PM

Couldn't leave Bond without someone to boink at the end.

 

It's not like Brosnan was Daniel Craig, or Fleming's Bond or anything.



#4 JSDude1

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:12 PM

I should add that I mean the only main villain, not partnered with anyone else.

#5 AMC Hornet

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:14 PM

Critics have thought that Sharon Stone should have played a villain.

 

That would have surprised everyone.



#6 hoagy

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 04:17 PM

The thought of Sharon Stone has crossed my mind a few time.  Oh, and the thought of her playing a villain in a Bond film, too, yes.  Once she made that dreadful Catwoman movie -- as the villain -- with Bond alum Halle Berry, though, seems to have marked a crossroads for her, and she crossed over to a less successful career.  Of course, in Hollywood, actresses over the age of 29 get shunned but she had been doing pretty well.  Perhaps that movie made moviegoers cross at her.  They crossed themselves and swore against giving her as much fan allegiance thereafter, perhaps.  Have I now managed to use the word "cross" as many times as possible in this inane, sophomoric, sexist rant ?  Yes.  I think so.  I think I now can cross it off my list.



#7 dtuba

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 05:28 AM

IMO Electra King was the single Main Villain(ess) of TWINE. Renarrrrd was merely a henchman ( and a weak, badly written one at that).

But yes, I just saw The Martian yesterday and Jessica Chastain can be in a bond film anytime. Love interest, villain, both...whatever.



#8 Vauxhall

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 10:15 PM

Reading between the lines, it seems Meryl Streep wasn't up for it. 

 

I can't see Jessica Chastain as the villain. If we're looking at current Hollywood "A-list", maybe a really unhinged Jennifer Lawrence would work, eventually.



#9 Grard Bond

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 04:53 PM

Bette Davis would have been a great one in the sixties, or seventies! :)



#10 Gay Bond

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:05 PM

Glenn Close would be good, if a little hammy. She can switch from authoritative to utterly bonkers in the blink of an eye.

 

Also one of those actresses with an 'other worldly' air about them. I'm thinking Charlotte Rampling, Tilda Swinton, etc. 



#11 The Shark

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:28 PM

Why does everyone forget Rosa Klebb?



#12 JLaidlaw

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:39 PM

Am I misunderstanding the term 'heavy', i.e. a hired goon of the 'Jaws', 'Oddjob' or 'Necros' type? If that's what's meant then surely Xenia Onatopp and May Day are both henchwomen hired to carry out physical assaults? Both more intelligent, but they certainly serve that purpose.

 

If sole main villain is meant, it's long overdue. A politician, perhaps. Someone of a Helen Mirren type, maybe? Kate Winslet deserves a better villain role than that awful Divergent franchise.


Edited by JLaidlaw, 15 October 2015 - 05:41 PM.


#13 hoagy

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

Rosa Klebb was not the Main Villain in FRWL.  She was acting under the direction of a man petting a pussycat on a yacht.  He was the big boss bad guy.  The cat, of course, being a cat, never would do anything at his direction.



#14 stromberg

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 06:42 PM

Rosa Klebb was not the Main Villain in FRWL.  She was acting under the direction of a man petting a pussycat on a yacht.  He was the big boss bad guy.  The cat, of course, being a cat, never would do anything at his direction.

The same could be said about Largo in TB, and he certainly counts as Main Villain. 



#15 hoagy

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:35 PM

Interesting.  First of all, Blofeld would electrocute you in your chair for such insubordination.

 

So, let's give this due consideration...

 

Dr. No -- for crying out loud, the film is named after him, and the same actor got to portray Blofeld ("Number 1"), though undisclosed and given no identity in the credits, in at least one other film.  Even though he was acting as a member of SPECTRE, there was no evidence that he was taking orders.  The plan -- toppling, to arouse war between the East and West (those mere points on a compass) -- was HIS plan.  Dr. No was not acting in fear or awe of anyone else in SPECTRE.  Dr. No is the Main Villain in this one.

 

FRWL -- a film which does not lend itself to identifying a prime villain due to the nature of the plot -- the film's, and SPECTRE's.  In this film, unlike Dr. No, SPECTRE was quite evident.  Much more dialogue, Number 1's appearance, and we even get to see SPECTRE Island and the training facility.  Layers and layers of players in the plot.  Clearly Number 1's plan, managed by Rosa Klebb after Kronstein had a chance and failed, using Red Grant as the assassin, but all conceived and controlled, and explicitly so, by Number 1.  A Rosa Klebb, by the way, who is quite respectful of Number 1 and fears him.  I am not engaging in sexism or ageism, therefore, in opining that Blofeld is the Main Villain in this one.

 

Goldfinger -- The Man with the Midas Touch is the Main Villain here.  Acting on his own.  Chinese partners, and criminals, too -- but he was the boss.

 

Thunderball -- SPECTRE is quite explicitly involved, and Number 1 calls the shots at the meeting of SPECTRE's leading members.  So, will I go the route of my analysis in FRWL and declare Emilio Largo a player acting under the direction of Number 1 ?  Nope.  Didn't Largo bring the plan before the "Board" ?  Unlike Dr. No and Emilio Largo, Rosa Klebb was not established in her own right.  She still was thought to be an officer in the Soviet Army, in fact.  She had no capital, no lair, no employees of her own.  Largo, he had all these.  He even had sharks.  No lasers on their heads, but some very sharp teeth in those heads.

 

You Only Live Twice -- Blofeld, all the way.  Main Villain.  Someone must have told him what people mean when they discuss "number one" and "number two", and he went by the name from here on out.

 

OHMSS -- yup.  As with YOLT.

 

DAF -- again, Blofeld all the way.  Main Villain.

 

As we know, from here on out, rights to the character of Blofeld were recognized as an issue.  OK, to this point, at least as I have analyzed it, no female Main Villain.  I'll pick up the pace:

 

LALD -- Mr. Big equals Scaramanga.  Either way, he's a guy.

TMWTGG -- He's also the Main Villain with the Y Chromosome.

TSWLM -- Stromberg.  Something fishy about him but, whatever, he's a guy.

MR -- Drax, first name Hugo.  Guy.

FYEO -- again, a guy as the Main Villain, though the presence of the too-young-for-Bond lady certainly was detrimental to the production, and provided an awkward indicator that the biggest villain for Roger the Dodger was turning out to be Father Time...who's a guy.

Octopussy -- Close ?  Nope.  Not really.  She was allied with Khan, but Khan was the Main Villain.  Fortunately, Bond shot that decoration off the handrail of the stairs before his own manhood encountered some risk.

AVTAK -- Mayday was working for Christopher...theee...MAIN !...villain..Walken, and he's,  the man !  He's the King...of New York, where...sometimes, when the POND...freezes...the ice..is Gonna...BREAK !...and, yes, that was an attempt to put his wonderful manner of speech into writing.

TLD -- Though the lady held the rifle, she was not the Main Villain.

LTK -- a guy.  Again.

GE -- Guy.

TND -- Guy.

TWINE -- YES !!  The Main Villain is Elektra King, a female M-V !  Her plot.  She's the boss.  The Man Who Felt No Pain except for the huuuuge one in his heart was her instrument.

DAD -- a Guy...the actor for which now plays the part of 007 in radio plays !  How the world turns...

CR -- guy

QOS -- guy

SF -- guy

SPECTRE....not out yet, but there are significant indications that

  A.  It will have a guy as the Main Villain.

  B.  It will be a familiar character as that Main Villain.

and

   C.  He won't be called "Number One".



#16 AMC Hornet

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:47 PM


LALD -- Mr. Big equals Scaramanga.  Either way, he's a guy.

Edit required.



#17 hoagy

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:03 PM

Oops !  Thanks !

Got my name-ends-in-"anga"-villains' names mixed up...and 2 pics in a row.

 

OK

 

LALD -- Mr. Big = Kananga.  Either way, he's a guy.



#18 Guy Haines

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 11:09 PM

Interesting. First of all, Blofeld would electrocute you in your chair for such insubordination.

So, let's give this due consideration...

Dr. No -- for crying out loud, the film is named after him, and the same actor got to portray Blofeld ("Number 1"), though undisclosed and given no identity in the credits, in at least one other film. Even though he was acting as a member of SPECTRE, there was no evidence that he was taking orders. The plan -- toppling, to arouse war between the East and West (those mere points on a compass) -- was HIS plan. Dr. No was not acting in fear or awe of anyone else in SPECTRE. Dr. No is the Main Villain in this one.

FRWL -- a film which does not lend itself to identifying a prime villain due to the nature of the plot -- the film's, and SPECTRE's. In this film, unlike Dr. No, SPECTRE was quite evident. Much more dialogue, Number 1's appearance, and we even get to see SPECTRE Island and the training facility. Layers and layers of players in the plot. Clearly Number 1's plan, managed by Rosa Klebb after Kronstein had a chance and failed, using Red Grant as the assassin, but all conceived and controlled, and explicitly so, by Number 1. A Rosa Klebb, by the way, who is quite respectful of Number 1 and fears him. I am not engaging in sexism or ageism, therefore, in opining that Blofeld is the Main Villain in this one.

Goldfinger -- The Man with the Midas Touch is the Main Villain here. Acting on his own. Chinese partners, and criminals, too -- but he was the boss.

Thunderball -- SPECTRE is quite explicitly involved, and Number 1 calls the shots at the meeting of SPECTRE's leading members. So, will I go the route of my analysis in FRWL and declare Emilio Largo a player acting under the direction of Number 1 ? Nope. Didn't Largo bring the plan before the "Board" ? Unlike Dr. No and Emilio Largo, Rosa Klebb was not established in her own right. She still was thought to be an officer in the Soviet Army, in fact. She had no capital, no lair, no employees of her own. Largo, he had all these. He even had sharks. No lasers on their heads, but some very sharp teeth in those heads.

You Only Live Twice -- Blofeld, all the way. Main Villain. Someone must have told him what people mean when they discuss "number one" and "number two", and he went by the name from here on out.

OHMSS -- yup. As with YOLT.

DAF -- again, Blofeld all the way. Main Villain.

As we know, from here on out, rights to the character of Blofeld were recognized as an issue. OK, to this point, at least as I have analyzed it, no female Main Villain. I'll pick up the pace:

LALD -- Mr. Big equals Scaramanga. Either way, he's a guy.
TMWTGG -- He's also the Main Villain with the Y Chromosome.
TSWLM -- Stromberg. Something fishy about him but, whatever, he's a guy.
MR -- Drax, first name Hugo. Guy.
FYEO -- again, a guy as the Main Villain, though the presence of the too-young-for-Bond lady certainly was detrimental to the production, and provided an awkward indicator that the biggest villain for Roger the Dodger was turning out to be Father Time...who's a guy.
Octopussy -- Close ? Nope. Not really. She was allied with Khan, but Khan was the Main Villain. Fortunately, Bond shot that decoration off the handrail of the stairs before his own manhood encountered some risk.
AVTAK -- Mayday was working for Christopher...theee...MAIN !...villain..Walken, and he's, the man ! He's the King...of New York, where...sometimes, when the POND...freezes...the ice..is Gonna...BREAK !...and, yes, that was an attempt to put his wonderful manner of speech into writing.
TLD -- Though the lady held the rifle, she was not the Main Villain.
LTK -- a guy. Again.
GE -- Guy.
TND -- Guy.
TWINE -- YES !! The Main Villain is Elektra King, a female M-V ! Her plot. She's the boss. The Man Who Felt No Pain except for the huuuuge one in his heart was her instrument.
DAD -- a Guy...the actor for which now plays the part of 007 in radio plays ! How the world turns...
CR -- guy
QOS -- guy
SF -- guy
SPECTRE....not out yet, but there are significant indications that
A. It will have a guy as the Main Villain.
B. It will be a familiar character as that Main Villain.
and
C. He won't be called "Number One".


Interesting post. Re OP though I'm not persuaded that Kamal Khan was the main villain. Aren't we forgetting General Orlov? He has a Bond villain sized plan - blowing up a USAF base in West Germany but pointing the fingure of blame at the US. He is running it via a couple of sub-contactors - Kamal Khan who knows full well what Orlov is up to but wants to get his hands on the Kremlin jewels Orlov is dangling before him, and "Octopussy" Smythe who just thinks it's another routine jewel smuggling caper.

Octopussy is no angel, although she's not really a devil either - like Colombo in FYEO she's a smuggler of goods. Khan is a greedy so-and-so, But the film's real villain is Orlov.

#19 HoneyDiamond

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 12:04 AM

I also always thought Elektra was the Bond villainess in TWINE.  I saw Renard as her henchman. 



#20 AMC Hornet

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 03:47 AM

That was the big surprise, at least for people who avoid spoilers. To have announced in advance that Elektra would be the baddie would have meant rewriting the script, then going ahead and casting Sharon Stone (since casting Sharon Stone would be a spoiler in itself).

 

Rumours abounded anyway, just as they currently are about Christoph Waltz and Oberhauser's 'real' identity.



#21 jaguar007

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:23 AM

Perhaps in SPECTRE it will turn out that Monica Bellucci is actually Blofeld



#22 Grard Bond

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 10:20 AM

In John Gardner's "For special services" he had a daughter, so she could be a Blofeld....



#23 MkB

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 06:20 PM

Glenn Close would be good, if a little hammy. She can switch from authoritative to utterly bonkers in the blink of an eye.

 

Also one of those actresses with an 'other worldly' air about them. I'm thinking Charlotte Rampling, Tilda Swinton, etc. 

 

I'm with you on this! Glenn Close would be great, and I also love you other suggestions. 



#24 AMC Hornet

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 10:15 PM

Perhaps in SPECTRE it will turn out that Monica Bellucci is actually Blofeld

 

"The thought had occurred to me."

 

Perhaps Bond had an elder sister he never knew about, but Oberhauser did...



#25 hoagy

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 02:49 PM

Octopussy may qualify as a dual-villain film if ever there were one.  I have not re-spooled and played this one, but I do recall that, between those villains -- the mad Russian General and the smooth Operator Kkan (practically the human embodiment of the slithering serpent from Kipling's Jungle Book) -- the one who perished last at the hands of 007 was Khan.  So, going by the "which one did Bond dispatch last" model, the main villain was Khan.

 

Now, there have been Bond films with wonderful last-minute threats, and they sometimes came from the henchmen, who therefore died last but were not the main villains:  In GF, it was GF himself who provided that last minute threat after everything seemed in order, so it was the main villain himself.  In FRWL it was the Rosa with her shoe, and we've already discussed at length who the main villain was in that one.  In OHMSS it was the main villain, Blofeld himself, who pooped Tracy and Bond's wedding party.  In DAF it was henchman, at the end, when Bond once again "smelled a rat."  So, if you prefer Orlov as the main villain in OP then the penultimate scene, wherein Bond dispatches with Khan's henchman, then Khan, you might say it was a double-henchmen last minute threat.  Except that Bond was not in "mission accomplished" relaxation mode when that last minute threat arose.  He was in "still chasing the main villain down" mode.



#26 seawolfnyy

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 08:09 PM

I am definitely of the camp that consider Rosa Klebb the main villain of FRWL. Largo is the main villain in TB, recall that in the novel he was actually no. 1 and not Blofeld, though this is because Spectre actually rotated numbers to avoid intelligence agencies discovering who was in charge. Dr. No has his film named after him, so despite being an agent of Spectre, he is the main heavy. If we are to believe that they are main baddies, despite being underlings, then Rosa Klebb is certainly a main villain.

 

Elektra is the main villain of TWINE and not a co-main villain. Bond even states to her that SHE turned Renard and not the other way around. Renard is nothing more than a hapless, love-sick puppy.

 

As for Octopussy, she is as much a villain to Bond as Catwoman is to Batman. She certainly is no angel, but she isn't by any means the villain. She was only working with Orlov and Kamal as partners in their jewelry smuggling. She was completely unaware of the bomb plot and was double crossed and left to be killed by Kamal and Orlov in East Germany. She may be in it for her own gains, but she is definitely not a villain.



#27 AMC Hornet

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:31 PM

By that reasoning, is Le Chiffre the main villain of CR, or is it whoever is behind "our organization"?

 

Likewise Dominic Greene, the titular Quantum, or whoever Mr. White actually works for?



#28 dtuba

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 08:07 PM

I am definitely of the camp that consider Rosa Klebb the main villain of FRWL. Largo is the main villain in TB, recall that in the novel he was actually no. 1 and not Blofeld, though this is because Spectre actually rotated numbers to avoid intelligence agencies discovering who was in charge. Dr. No has his film named after him, so despite being an agent of Spectre, he is the main heavy. If we are to believe that they are main baddies, despite being underlings, then Rosa Klebb is certainly a main villain.

 

Elektra is the main villain of TWINE and not a co-main villain. Bond even states to her that SHE turned Renard and not the other way around. Renard is nothing more than a hapless, love-sick puppy.

 

As for Octopussy, she is as much a villain to Bond as Catwoman is to Batman. She certainly is no angel, but she isn't by any means the villain. She was only working with Orlov and Kamal as partners in their jewelry smuggling. She was completely unaware of the bomb plot and was double crossed and left to be killed by Kamal and Orlov in East Germany. She may be in it for her own gains, but she is definitely not a villain.

Agreed on all points.