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SPECTRE vs. another spy film


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#1 seawolfnyy

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 02:18 AM

I know this is in the spoiler sections, but this topic may touch on MAJOR SPOILERS. So if anyone doesn't want to see them, DO NOT CONTINUE READING. The text has also been blacked out.

 

After seeing Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation, I can't help but have a very bad feeling about how similar it is to SPECTRE. Both have climaxes in London, both deal with a shadowy organization that is playing a cat and mouse game with the protagonist (both of whom have gone rogue). Both films feature major action sequences in Austria and Morocco and had to have major rewrites to their endings. There are more, but I'm trying to keep the major spoilers down. I have a strange feeling that we may see some lawsuits upon SPECTRE's release.



#2 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 04:23 AM

They are so completely different - I wouldn´t lose any sleep over it.



#3 OHMSS Spion

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 04:57 AM

I actually posted something similar to this in the Mission Impossible thread before seeing Rogue Nation, but I agree with SecretAgentFan, these will be two very different movies. Some of the plot points might sound similar, but the execution is what's going to make it a Bond movie.

#4 Harmsway

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:43 AM

The similarities are all very, very surface-level.

#5 RMc2

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:21 AM

In terms of legal action, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Warner Bros didn't kick up a fuss over the similarities between SF and The Dark Knight & The Dark Knight Rises.

 

As Harmsway said, the similarities are mostly superficial, and both M:I-5 and SPECTRE can defend themselves with the fact that The Syndicate and S.P.E.C.T.R.E. are part of the series' heritage that goes back to the '60s for both of them. 



#6 Walecs

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:22 PM

I never watched Mission Impossible 5, the first one was bad enough, so M:I 5 definitely won't bother me when I'll be watching SPECTRE.



#7 seawolfnyy

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 02:22 PM

I understand that both the Syndicate and SPECTRE are part of each franchise's respected lore. However, there are far more similarities that I didn't include in the original post. It could be and probably is just coincidence, but as I was watching the film I couldn't shake the feeling that I was just watching SPECTRE.



#8 OHMSS Spion

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 07:19 PM

I think most of the similarities that you are perceiving are just tropes of spy movies nowadays. I mean (and I posted this when I started the Mission: Impossible thread) the shared aspects of SPECTRE and Rogue Nation (secret rival organizations, government entities trying to shut down your department) could also apply to Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier also has the aspect of someone in that organization being someone from our main character's past, which Rogue Nation does not have. Do I think that SPECTRE is ripping off Winter Soldier? No, these are just common themes.

#9 Hansen

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 11:39 AM

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

#10 RMc2

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

I understand that both the Syndicate and SPECTRE are part of each franchise's respected lore. However, there are far more similarities that I didn't include in the original post. It could be and probably is just coincidence, but as I was watching the film I couldn't shake the feeling that I was just watching SPECTRE.

 

I wonder how much that factored into Paramount's decision to bring Rogue Nation's release date forward to July (apart from the whole 'avoid Star Wars!' panic)?

 

 

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

 

It's funny, for me CR is the most refreshing and surprising Bond film of recent years, yet that's largely because it's a faithful adaptation of Fleming's book. If EON were to continue being 'original' by adapting unfilmed Fleming stories, I'd be fine with that!



#11 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:48 PM

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

 

Not very.  But how could they, after five decades?  I´m very happy that the Craig era refreshed so much.  A gigantic feat, IMO.

 

And which films do you consider very original?



#12 Hansen

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 08:00 PM

 

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

 

Not very.  But how could they, after five decades?  I´m very happy that the Craig era refreshed so much.  A gigantic feat, IMO.

 

And which films do you consider very original?

 

There was a time when Bond was a trendsetter (let's say until the end of Moore era). Afterwards, films became less original but could be very good (LTK, GE, CR), but in regards of QoS and SF, I look at them as followers of what has been done elsewhere (Bourne, Nolan's Batman, Home Alone...). I cannot speak for Spectre but fingers crossed...



#13 Walecs

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 08:44 PM

 

 

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

 

Not very.  But how could they, after five decades?  I´m very happy that the Craig era refreshed so much.  A gigantic feat, IMO.

 

And which films do you consider very original?

 

There was a time when Bond was a trendsetter (let's say until the end of Moore era). Afterwards, films became less original but could be very good (LTK, GE, CR), but in regards of QoS and SF, I look at them as followers of what has been done elsewhere (Bourne, Nolan's Batman, Home Alone...). I cannot speak for Spectre but fingers crossed...

 

Enough with this "Skyfall - Home Alone" bullshit. I've been hearing it a lot since Skyfall's release, and I honestly see nothing similar between Skyfall and that piece of crap where a kid spends Christmas holidays on his own and sets some traps on his home to catch some thieves.

Bond took M to his home and armed himself with a shotgun while waiting for the villain.

YEAH, IDENTICAL PLOTS! Chris Columbus should totally sue Sam Mendes for ripping of his movie. What next, SPECTRE is a carbon copy of Fantozzi, because both feature a chase in Rome (except SPECTRE features cars instead of buses)? How much ridicolous can people be?



#14 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 05:03 AM

 

 

 

Unfortunately Bond films have not been very original lately

 

Not very.  But how could they, after five decades?  I´m very happy that the Craig era refreshed so much.  A gigantic feat, IMO.

 

And which films do you consider very original?

 

There was a time when Bond was a trendsetter (let's say until the end of Moore era). Afterwards, films became less original but could be very good (LTK, GE, CR), but in regards of QoS and SF, I look at them as followers of what has been done elsewhere (Bourne, Nolan's Batman, Home Alone...). I cannot speak for Spectre but fingers crossed...

 

Enough with this "Skyfall - Home Alone" bullshit. I've been hearing it a lot since Skyfall's release, and I honestly see nothing similar between Skyfall and that piece of crap where a kid spends Christmas holidays on his own and sets some traps on his home to catch some thieves.

Bond took M to his home and armed himself with a shotgun while waiting for the villain.

YEAH, IDENTICAL PLOTS! Chris Columbus should totally sue Sam Mendes for ripping of his movie. What next, SPECTRE is a carbon copy of Fantozzi, because both feature a chase in Rome (except SPECTRE features cars instead of buses)? How much ridicolous can people be?

 

 

Let´s keep it civil, shall we?

 

Bond as trendsetter - that seems to be an unfair argument.  

 

Let´s face it: Bond films could only set trends when there weren´t other spy-action-bonanzas around.

 

And this ended during the 60´s.  One could argue that YOLT already repeated the TB-formula, OHMSS combined FRWL-seriousness with the TB-variation of having the usual Bond elements set in snow (not underwater or in a hollowed-out volcano).

 

The Moore era definitely had to face the problem of too many competitors, starting with a riff on the blaxploitation films (LALD), following with exploiting Kung Fu-mania.  Trendsetting?  That was over.  Using current elements and adapting to contemporary successes - that was the way to go and to survive.

 

I would even argue that it is impossible for any film to be a trendsetter these days because everything has been done.  Technical advancements may still set trends (CGI, 3D etc.) - but narratively, really, which film has been entirely original during the last twenty years?

 

As for the "Skyfall"-"Home alone"-parallel - c´mon, even Sam Mendes joked about it in the DVD-commentary.  The idea of having to defend oneself with make-do weapons in your own home, of course, was done many times before "Home alone" (for example: Peckinpah´s "Straw Dogs").  

 

But again, why should that be a cause for concern?  Movies are a reflection of ideas, using them, twisting them, incorporating them within a (hopefully) new framework.

 

And if we go back even further - who could actually say that "Dr. No" was highly original?  It was a mix of detective story and adventure pulp, done many, many, many times before.  Only this time with its own panache.



#15 Hansen

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:51 AM

Be cool. Home Alone was a joke :-)
As I see it, Other films copied Bond in the 60s and today Bond copies other films.
Point taken on LALD TMWTGG or even MR. But even at this time Bond remained the reference for action films.
Agreed, today, script are not that original for action films but some have their own style (again Bourne, Nolan, even MI serie)
Also I think I am a bit dissapointed to see Bond trying to copy other heroes instead of remaining himself

#16 Major Tallon

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:52 AM

This disagreement could, and I suppose has, run endlessly.  It can be argued that the lighter tone of the movies in the late 60's reflected the jokiness of the later seasons of "The Man From U.N.C.L.E." and "Batman" or even the 1967 CR.  It can be argued that Moore, who acknowledged thinking of Bond as a comic figure, was playing Bond as the same character he'd played as Lord Brett Sinclair, essentially copying himself.  It can even be argued that "Thunderball" ripped off the old Lloyd Bridges TV show "Sea Hunt."  Truth be told, the "Bond is following trends, no longer setting them" argument dates back at least to LALD, when US film critic Roger Ebert wondered why the ad campaign failed to boast that Mr. Big "has a plan to sock it to The Man."

 

My problem with the "Bond should remain himself" argument is that there have now been so many interpretations of the role that there's no longer a single template for the part.  They range from flippant punster to cynical brooder, to burnt-out near-wreck, but when the  public thinks of an action-adventure hero, it's Bond that stands out.  One need only survey today's media to see a range of published and broadcast features centering around Bond that eclipses the attention focused on any other character in the genre.  To use an extreme example, virtually anyone in the entertainment industry seems able to get attention by suggesting a certain actor as the next Bond (and nobody that I know of has received a word of attention by suggesting Idris Elba as the next Jason Bourne). 

 

Whether or not you enjoy the current direction the franchise has taken, I believe it indisputable that Bond still sets the standard.  Sure, there'll be sequences in other movies that get discussed as jaw-dropping, but when the dust settles, it'll be Bond's name that the public and the market will consider the premiere character in the spy-thriller genre.



#17 Walecs

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 10:20 AM

Be cool. Home Alone was a joke :-)

 

I'm sorry for overreacting, it's just that it makes me mad because it has been made too many times. First time it makes you laugh, the second time it makes you smile, but when you've heard it, like 25 times, it gets annoying.

So yeah, please accept my apologies. :)



#18 Hansen

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 10:20 AM


Whether or not you enjoy the current direction the franchise has taken, I believe it indisputable that Bond still sets the standard. Sure, there'll be sequences in other movies that get discussed as jaw-dropping, but when the dust settles, it'll be Bond's name that the public and the market will consider the premiere character in the spy-thriller genre.


That is where I disagree. For me, it is no longer the case.
There are too many challengers now. MI being the strongest

#19 Major Tallon

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 10:34 AM

As long as Bond does a billion dollars in box office, there will always be challengers, and those challengers will always be thinking of ways to try to "out-Bond James Bond."  They've have been trying almost as Bond has been around, and there's no way for the Bond producers to stop them, other than to make the best product they can.  I think they're doing it extremely well.  We, who have a lot invested in our own ideas of who and what Bond should be, may disagree, but the public and critical response seems to bear out my view.  Bond is still on top, and the franchise shows no sign of being eclipsed by Bourne, MI, U.N.C.L.E., or anyone else.



#20 Hansen

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 02:07 PM


Be cool. Home Alone was a joke :-)


I'm sorry for overreacting, it's just that it makes me mad because it has been made too many times. First time it makes you laugh, the second time it makes you smile, but when you've heard it, like 25 times, it gets annoying.
So yeah, please accept my apologies. :)
No problem :-)