23 replies to this topic

[glidrose]

By now we have all heard the latest in the needless, never-ending "Idris Elba for James Bond" saga.
 
In an interview with Britiain's The Daily Mail, the reporter asked Anthony Horowitz his opinion of Idris Elba playing Bond. Horowitz replied, `I think he is probably a bit too “street” for Bond.' http://www.dailymail...anted-life.html

This got a reaction on twitter from people who have too much time on their hands and are looking for an axe to grind. Never mind that Horowitz also said in this same interview, "‘Idris Elba is a terrific actor, but I can think of other black actors who would do it better.’ He names Adrian Lester, star of Hustle."

Predictably, sadly, the media picked up this non-story. For example, CNN here at http://www.cnn.com/2...-horowitz-feat/

A mortified, horrified Anthony Horowitz responded on twitter "I'm really sorry my comments about Idris Elba have caused offence." You can read the rest of his comments here https://twitter.com/...757024000557056

The well-known Black American actor Don Cheadle ("Hotel Rwanda") joined in the fray tweeting back to Horowitz several times.

An online acquaintance sent me the following link and transcript rightly thinking I would have an opinion.

This appeared on one of those daytime talk shows geared at single women, housewives, etc. You know the kind.

http://www.thesocial...ideo?vid=692919

Here is a transcript in case the video isn't available in your region.

MELISSA GRELO: So folks I have a question, a very serious question. Would you like to see Idris Elba as James Bond?

The audience shouts an enthusiastic yeah, applauds, cheers for 7 blooming seconds!

MELISSA GRELO: Okay, sadly I have to report that not everyone is thinking he's 007 material. So get this. In a recent interview with the Daily Mail the author of the latest book in the Bond series - his name is Anthony Horowitz. This author says although Elba is a tremendous actor he's just not "suave" enough for the part.

Audience groans.

MELISSA GRELO: But he even took it one step further. He called him too "street" to play James Bond.

Audience groans and boos.

MELISSA GRELO: Okay, before we go on in this story. I will say that in this article, he continues in this interview. Horowitz continues to say that he said it's not a race thing-

TRACY MELCHIOR: Really?

MELISSA GRELO: -he claims. This is what he said. And he said that he would like to see an actor, for example, like Adrian Lester who's another Black British prominent actor. He [Horowitz] thinks he would be a great James Bond.

Audience jeers.

MELISSA GRELO: So he says it's not race. He says it's not race. What say you ladies?

LAINEY LUI: Well, he said a lot of things. Like, I mean, he's quite, his version of what Bond should be is not the modern version of the Bond we know. This guy, the backstory to this guy Anthony Horowitz is that he pitched himself to write the James Bond movies and they rejected him.

TRACY MELCHIOR: Mmmm.

LAINEY LUI: So then he started writing books and so he has, like, an axe to grind here about the tone of the new James Bond movies. He says that the new Bond is weak and should only be, Bond should only act, kill and win. And clearly the new Bond as demonstrated by Daniel Craig is multi-faceted now, he's more somber, he's dark. He [Horowitz] doesn't like the way the Bond has evolved. And he wants the Bond to remain in the seventies. I mean, this guy [Horowitz] is probably, like, a relic of the past and the times are passing him by. And he can't catch up. What was it that you said that Oprah had to say about certain people that had to-

TRACY MELCHIOR: Racists, you just have to wait for them to die off.

Audience cheers and applauds for 7 seconds.

TRACY MELCHIOR: I mean, I'm paraphrasing the great Oprah Winfrey, but, that was the sentiment. This guy has obviously never met Idris Elba. I had the opportunity of interviewing him for the Nicholas Cage movie "Ghost Rider Part 2: Spirit of Vengeance", maybe not, you know, one of the ten best movies of that year. But this man, he's an incredible actor. Anybody who's a fan of "The Wire", or the BBC show "Luther", and he was just a gentleman. He got up when I got into the room. Very elegant gentleman. So this [author], whatever his name is, I don't want to repeat his name-

Some scattered audience laughter.

TRACY MELCHIOR: -is saying that he's too street. Why? Because, I don't know. He didn't have a bandanna on, and he didn't threaten me. Because I don't know. So what was he expecting from Idris Elba?

The women began talking over themselves.

CYNTHIA LOYST: It's ridiculous-

TRACY MELCHIOR: -actor, is Idris. That's what he is.

CYNTHIA LOYST: And you're right, he sort of personifies suave to me. And elegance. And, you know-

TRACY MELCHIOR: A tall drink of wine.

CYNTHIA LOYST: So beautiful. And clearly, I mean, people online are all up in arms about this, because they agree. And this isn't the first time that there's been this kind of controversy around iconic characters who've traditionally been played by white men. You know, that people online are talking about how we'd like these revisited. Like, for a while people were talking about Idris Elba potentially being the next Batman. And I think that would be great. I mean, the thing of it is, just because these roles, Batman, Superman, James Bond, Doctor Who, I don't care, I don't care if they've always been done by white men. They're fictional characters. They can be played by anyone.

Audience cheers and applauds.

MELISSA GRELO: The idea that a black actor can't play a historically white role but white actors have been playing other nationalities for time immemorial.

TRACY MELCHIOR: Elizabeth Taylor in "Cleopatra".

MELISSA GRELO: Right. I mean, it's happened in history forever. Even the latest movie, "Aloha", that stars Emma Stone. It was such a huge controversy because interestingly she was cast to play a part-Asian character. And I looked at Emma Stone and I said "I don't see that."

LAINEY LUI: You don't think Emma Stone and I look similar?

MELISSA GRELO: Totally! Totally, so I mean it's historical, you know, to have white actors play other nationalities all the time. And I think for us, I think it's quite rich on the part of this author to, because he's quite nostalgic. I mean he writes in the Ian Fleming tradition and he's a stickler for this stuff, but I think you're right. I think he's a relic.

TRACY MELCHIOR: And Ian Fleming wrote a lot of the James Bond books in Jamaica, on the island of Jamaica. So I'm thinking, like, Ian Fleming, I think, would have been in agreement for Idris Elba to be James Bond. Funny thing, "Green Lantern", "Green Lantern", I was just thinking about something my son said to me. He said Green Lantern was originally was a black character. And that he doesn't understand because the t-shirt that he has, Green Lantern is white. And so we have a whole new generation of kids growing up that are questioning these roles and thinking, that you know, they're knowing their history about it and they're feeling free to talk about it. So I feel, like, you know, we have to keep talking about this. Idris for James Bond, 007.

MELISSA GRELO or LAINEY LUI: Yeah.

Audience hoots and applauds.

[coco1997]

What a bunch of airheaded drivel.

[tdalton]

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying this, but Horowitz needs to be more careful with what he says. The "too street" comment was a rather dumb one to make and one that he should have known would create controversy, whether or not he or anyone else thinks that it should.

[Guy Haines]

There are various actors out there of various backgrounds who merit consideration to play Bond after Daniel Craig has left the role. I doubt the producers are going to be swayed by one author's comments, the "twittering" that followed, or the comments made in the transcript above.

As for that daytime TV show quoted, well I don't watch daytime TV of any kind and I somehow doubt the level of debate displayed in that one will change my mind. ;-)

[ChickenStu]

Idris Elba "too street"? 

 

SEAN CONNERY GREW UP IN THE SLUMS OF SCOTLAND!!! AND ELBA'S "TOO STREET"?!?! 

[Jim]

I think he's utterly cul-de-sac.

[tdalton]

Idris Elba "too street"? 

 

SEAN CONNERY GREW UP IN THE SLUMS OF SCOTLAND!!! AND ELBA'S "TOO STREET"?!?! 

 

That's one of the problems with this statement.  Since it's something that obviously doesn't apply to someone like Connery, then what must "too street" mean?  Given Horowitz's professional success up to this point and the fact that he's achieved it as a wordsmith, he should know the impact of what his words mean.  It was a incredibly stupid thing to say and he's rightly getting criticism for it.

[TheREAL008]

His comments may have even have hurt his upcoming book sales as well.

[glidrose]

Brilliant comment, Coco.

Tho' I think the dumbest comment of all has to be Tracy Melchior's statement that "Ian Fleming, I think, would have been in agreement for Idris Elba to be James Bond."

Um, chapter 5 of LALD, honey, chapter 5.

[Emrayfo]

This whole brouhaha has been too silly for words and is a non-issue, though I have to agree with tdalton's comments re the unthinking stupidity displayed by Horowitz here:

 

 

 

Idris Elba "too street"? 

 

SEAN CONNERY GREW UP IN THE SLUMS OF SCOTLAND!!! AND ELBA'S "TOO STREET"?!?! 

 

That's one of the problems with this statement.  Since it's something that obviously doesn't apply to someone like Connery, then what must "too street" mean?  Given Horowitz's professional success up to this point and the fact that he's achieved it as a wordsmith, he should know the impact of what his words mean.  It was a incredibly stupid thing to say and he's rightly getting criticism for it.

 

 

Regarding the transcript from that daytime TV show quoted by glidrose, that is just another example of stupidity and does nothing more than reflect the production standards of those shows and the intellectual standards of the cast and audience. Gossiping for the purpose of entertainment is still just gossiping and should not be construed with serious debate, discussion or criticism.

 

And as for Idris Elba, black actors and Bond, everyone will have their opinion. I think Elba would make a great Bond and I would have loved to have seen it. Sure, in the show Luther his character is rough around the edges, and purposefully so, but in The Wire Stringer Bell has an elegance, sophistication and composure missing in his colleagues, also purposefully so. Elba is an actor and a damn fine one. But he won't be Bond because the stars didn't align for him and he's too old now, especially if Craig does one more after SPECTRE.

[plankattack]

I'll say this for, Horowitz's name, and "latest Bond novel Trigger Mortis" is definitely staying in the news cycle.

There's no such thing as bad publicity, no? (Not that I'm suggesting that Horowitz is on some Elliot Carver-style plot to boost interest in his book.......)

[Revelator]

The New Statesman, which has been faithfully attacking Ian Fleming since 1958, now weighs in:

http://www.newstates...s-race-problems

The author also reviewed Trigger Mortis for the Guardian (http://www.theguardi...itz-review-bond). The comments section is predictably dire.

 

Horowitz would have certainly saved himself trouble if he'd just said "based on what I've seen of him in Luther, I think Elba would be less suited for the role than Adrian Lester." But as a friend pointed out, Horowitz wouldn't have gotten into troubleif he'd said someone like Vinnie Jones was "too street" to play Bond.

Connery himself was initially regarded by Fleming as too uncouth ("an overgrown stuntman") for the part. He changed his mind, after gauging the reaction of a female friend to Connery's presence. Fleming's attitude toward the films seem to have been pragmatic--were he around in sound mind today, I don't think he'd have a problem with a black actor in the role, especially since it would give the series a good public image and publicity.

As for Horowitz, is there no such thing as bad publicity? One would think so, but audiences might avoid buying his book for fear of looking racist. It'll be interesting to see the sales figures.

As Emrayfo has pointed out, Elba is too old to have a realistic chance of playing Bond. But the media will keep--and has kept--tossing his name around because it's a way of churning controversy and stirring outrage, even if it's against someone who doesn't have a problem with a black actor as OO7.

[Guy Haines]

As some out there may know, I'm now a politician, and my views are far from racist. But that won't stop me buying my copy of Trigger Mortis next week. Anthony Horowitz's remarks were ill judged about an actor who might do a fine job as Bond but seems to have already ruled himself out of the role (never say never, though?)

[Dustin]

The real question is how this trite and by now truly overboiled question pops up time and again, often enough by some hack who neither cares about Bond nor racism and would just as happily play the game the other way around if it just scoops them a headline or clicks on their smarmy websites. This whole affair has now become an expedition deep into the heart of the farcical, leaving the Mountains of Madness and Kafka Valley far behind in the distance...

[Emrayfo]

The real question is how this trite and by now truly overboiled question pops up time and again, often enough by some hack who neither cares about Bond nor racism and would just as happily play the game the other way around if it just scoops them a headline or clicks on their smarmy websites.

Exactly. Tabloid is as tabloid does. The media industry has always been exploitative but seems more dire these days than ever before, forever searching for controversy to produce clicks to fund ads.

[Hockey Mask]

I'm very tired of everything Elba/Bond talk. It seems to have been going on for a decade now. He isn't too street. He isn't too black. He's too old.

[Guy Haines]

Lets assume that Daniel Craig goes on to do that final Bond film after SP. This probably takes us to 2017 or more likely 2018.

Another two to three year hiatus after that and we reach 2020 or 2021. If the latter year all those actors now in their early to mid forties who are being mentioned - including Idris Elba - will be a bit too old to qualify as a "new" James Bond.

Even if SP is Craig's last film as Bond, as some suspect, at least another two years will have passed before Bond 25 with a new actor is released. If the aim is 2017 for the next picture, the producers need to be looking at a possible successor to Craig now, and take into account how long that actor can realistically stay in the role given the two-to-three year gaps between films.

If Craig goes after SP some actors in their thirties have already been mooted on the "Bond 7" thread here. If he fulfils his five picture deal and "25" isn't out until 2018, the next Bond actor could be someone we haven't even thought of or heard of.

All of which makes the case for one particular actor who isn't even convinced himself that he want's to be Bond more difficult to sustain.

[Dustin]

I've read some outright pompous cretins now pleading a case for Elba, people whose understanding of Bond - and maybe of cinema in general I suspect - seems to be mainly dictated by considerations of how they can use the topic for furthering their own public profile.

I don't think it's necessary to posses charisma to recognise it in others - and in my opinion Elba seems to have a lot of just this quality. But when I hear selfstyled 'experts' waxing away about how he's supposedly the only candidate with charisma I start wondering.

Not just wondering which kind of article of personal hygiene writes up such rubbish, or how those reading it with gusto drool onto their shirt fronts. I truly wonder if this isn't in fact a campaign to damage Elba's career beyond repair. Already his name has drowned out that of several other actors - and one wonders how many British actors those 'experts' bringing him up again and again in the headlines actually do know. Judging by the "only" claim not all that many.

[Guy Haines]

Agreed. To say that Idris Elba is the only current actor with the charisma to play Bond is as wrong as to say he is too "street" to play the role.

There are others out there besides him, of various backgrounds, who deserve consideration. I want the next Bond actor to be the right Bond actor, whatever his nationality or ethnic background. Can an actor play the part of 007 convincingly - that should be the only consideration for the role.

[SecretAgentFan]

It´s really a shame that journalists - and Horowitz, too - had to go down this way again.  Of course, it´s all just for attention grabbing, click baiting, self-advertising reasons.

 

Still, I don´t think that Elba has to worry.  He surely knows that he is too old to start as Bond in two or three years (IF Craig really stops after SPECTRE) and definitely too old in four or five years to take over.

 

Everytime he is mentioned as a possible successor - despite being black or "too street" or whatever people think - his name is mentioned again, and that is, let´s face it, advertising him.

 

But he´s very much in demand right now anyway, and his career is taking off brilliantly.  He actually wouldn´t even need Bond if the role became available this instant.

 

In a way, it´s "Clive Owen" all over again.  The media closing in on one candidate, mentioning him again and again.  Only this time, the "ethnic" aspect can be played up to annoy all those who only want Bond to be a WASP.

 

 

I guess the only way to have all this go away would be if Craig indeed came right out and said that he will remain Bond at least until 2018.

 

That, I´m afraid, however, will not happen.  Despite Craig starting out on very good terms with BB one must never forget that this is all about the business.  And since Craig knows that right now he is pretty secure as Bond, he will drive an even bigger bargain to be persuaded to return.  Options and contracts don´t mean a thing if Craig decides to quit.  But if he decides to be back for the next film he will want an even bigger payday.

 

Getting the offer of being called a co-producer is only one step.  And I wouldn´t be surprised if EON is secretly asking themselves whether they have created a monster... again.

[tdalton]

 

I guess the only way to have all this go away would be if Craig indeed came right out and said that he will remain Bond at least until 2018.

 

 

It wouldn't go away even if Craig did that.  The media has decided that they want Idris Elba to be the next Bond, so they're going to push that agenda until EON announces the identity of Bond #7, regardless of the fact that he's reached the point where he's quite simply too old for the part.

[Hockey Mask]

He is the same age now (well, actually tomorrow - his birthday) as Craig was when he filmed Skyfall. Agreed, waaaaaaay to old an age to begin the role.

Edited by 00Hockey Mask, 05 September 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[Emrayfo]

Actually, it seems as though the fickle media have now moved on to Tom Hardy.

[Hockey Mask]

Actually, it seems as though the fickle media have now moved on to Tom Hardy.

Well, he is turning 38 this month. If Craig comes back for another he'll be too old too.

Edited by 00Hockey Mask, 06 September 2015 - 01:39 AM.