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Revisiting "Die Another Day"


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#1 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 11:55 AM

"Die Another Day" (re-watch)

 

More fun than TWINE but also a mix of highly interesting ideas and "been there done that"-elements turn this last Brosnan entry into something that passes the time quickly but feels as tired as Connery´s or Moore´s last film.

 

Again, Brosnan is excellent, and I´m sure he could have developed more in future Bond films.  But after re-watching DAD I did get the feeling that EON had used up all the ideas for what James Bond was all about in the 20th century.  It really was time to start anew, and that beginning needed another actor in order to openly differentiate the next film from what has come before.

 

Interestingly (for me), the CGI did not look as bad as I had remembered - was it the blu-ray version that adjusted something?  Basically, I even think that the escape from the tsunami is absolutely Bondian - he improvises and uses what he has to pull off some daring idea.  But the problem remains: this is visibly not a real stunt, and THAT is not Bondian at all.

 

The villains in this one are servicable but just as cartoonish as the second half of the film which really seems to have been put together by another team.  Which it wasn´t, I know, but the film offers so much interesting and entertaining stuff in the first half that I could not help feeling disappointed with the second.  And since that is another common sentiment about DAD, there must have been something that went horribly wrong during pre-production.  I would love to read what P & W actually had in mind for their third act (before Tamahori stepped in) and how the story developed.

 

Something else I didn´t like: the editing tricks with the ramped up speed or the slow motion are highly unnecessary and distracting.

 

But I love the title sequence, and let´s be fair: even if Madonna looks over-botoxed in her scene, she delivers the dialogue competently.  Halle Berry was not as annoying as I had remembered her - but I am glad that EON did not go through with establishing a "Jinx"-franchise.

 

So here´s my Brosnan-era-ranking:

 

1) TND

2) GE

3) DAD

4) TWINE



#2 Major Tallon

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 04:11 PM

It's rare for me to take direct issue with a fan who finds something enjoyable.  If someone believes that CR '67 is the best film of the franchise or that "Dude, Where's My Car?" deserved a Best Picture Oscar, far be it from me to tell them they shouldn't feel that way.

 

For me, anyway, DAD was such a major disappointment that I've broken that rule on occasion.  It's been a couple of years since I unleashed a detailed attack, so I hope I'm not being too unpleasant to do this now.  Now, I find some bits OK.  The PTS and title sequence, though not the best in the series, were all right, and I thought the use of Birds of the West Indies was clever. I liked the balletic "video game sequence," though the concept of a hologram-generated training room failed with me because it was more "Star Trek" than James Bond.  The part of the car battle on ice where Bond used the ejector seat to flip the car and avoid the missile.  Brosnan's desperate attempt to start the plunging helicopter at the end was good, though I have no idea whether that could actually be done.  And, of course, the glories of Ms. Rosamund Pike.

 

These bits were, alas, insufficient to save the movie.  Sure, Bond will never be "realistic," but there are so many wild improbables and several impossibles in DAD that they transform the film from action-adventure to sheer fantasy.  Once the illusion that what I'm seeing has some grounding in reality is shattered, and in DAD it's absolutely vaporized, the movie is no longer enjoyable on any level.

 

Where did the film go wrong?  Let me count the ways (and I'm sure I'm omitting others).

 

1.  The heart-stopping sequence.

2.  M's presence aboard the frigate.  Why is she taking a long ocean voyage away from her duties?  So she could deliver a dressing down and brief Bond on his debriefing?  Must be dull at Whitehall.

3.  The fact that Bond's swim from the frigate to Hong Kong would of necessity cover several miles, something of which a trained member of the SEALS/ SBS, let alone a recently released Korean prisoner, would be incapable.  This wasn't specifically addressed in the screenplay, of course (and no wonder), but there's no reason for the vessel to be closer to Hong Kong.

4.  Bond's entry into the hotel lobby.  Some people think this shows Bond's swagger, but I'm afraid most top-tier hotels I've been in have doormen that would promptly send such people and their swagger back into the street.

5.  The fencing scene.  Yes, it's nice to see some swordplay, but this certainly isn't one of the great depictions in film.  My real objection, however, is that this fight entails not only damage to the club premises, but the threat that one or both of the combatants will sustain serious injury or death.  I have a limited exposure to London Clubland, but I don't for a minute believe any of this would be tolerated before the staff intervened and the police were called.  I know it's a Bond movie and it's supposed to be "fun," but this just stretches the bounds of credibility way, way too far.

6.  The much-discussed invisible car.  A gadget too far.

7.  Jinx's killing of Dr. Alvarez.  Now, I may be silly thrusting up moral objections to death-dealing in a Bond film, but Dr. Alvarez is the director of a shady gene-replacement clinic that works for bad people on the run.  He's not himself a terrorist, a spy, or a person conspiring against the vital interests of any government, and I'm bothered that Jinx, in the name of the United States Government, murders him in cold blood.

8.  The terrible, embarrassing puns, at every turn.

9.  The ice racer.  I suppose I can just (just, mind you) accept that Bond can, absent previous experience, drive an ice racer at record-breaking speed, but the following "para-gliding over the tsunami" sequence, even if it had a lot better CGI than this one does, would be a joke, and not a very good joke at that.  Action sequences should be thrilling, not ones that induce the audience to exclaim, "Are you kidding me?"

10. The Icarus Death Ray.  Yes, the terrible death ray that's able to destroy in flight an anti-satellite weapon traveling at atmospheric escape velocity but can't hit either the ice racer or destroy in less than thirty minutes a giant cargo plane. 

11. The puerile, smutty "leave it in" dialog between Jinx and Bond.  Not cute, not amusing, just distasteful.

 

There are probably arguments to be made about any of these individual points, and, being a Bond fan, I might have gotten past a couple of them.  Taken together, however, issues like these destroyed the film for me.  Believe me, I have never taken the least pleasure in coming to that conclusion. 



#3 DaveBond21

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:50 AM

 

If you don't like this movie, I'm not going to argue with you. It started off OK, if over-scored and with a lot of noise. The first 40 minutes are pretty good. Jinx is a big mistake, but there are alot of ideas here that are a big mistake. They tried to cram in too much namely:-

 

- The invisible car

- Climbing down a glass building

- Ice Palace melting

- Laser machine fight

- Car Chase on Ice

- Speeder racing

- Huge laser from outer space

- Clinging to a melting cliff face

- Surfing a Tsunami

- Fighting in a burning out-of-control plane

- Starting a spinning helicopter mid-air

 

Normally a Bond movie's finale would feature maybe two of these elements, but to cram them all in was absurd.

 

The silly gimmicks like the virtual reality training, were a waste of time too.

 

I enjoyed the PTS, the Cuba scenes, Raoul, stealing the grape, the sword fight, but really, after we've seen how they toned things down with the Daniel Craig entries, it really makes Die Another Day look ridiculous.

 



#4 AMC Hornet

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:34 AM

The part of the car battle on ice where Bond used the ejector seat to flip the car and avoid the missile. 

 

Interesting that you approve of one of the few sequences that doesn't work for me.

 

Firing the ejector seat in the inverted vehicle would only cause the seat to bounce off the ice and then rattle around inside the car, doing serious injury to Bond. If the concussion of the firing were enough to flip the car, it would be enough to make 'strawberry jam' of our hero in the process.

 

I don't imagine that I could write, direct or edit a film better than the EON team could. Who's to say that any one of us could have recognized these 'flaws' in the planning stage? For one thing, If it had been up to me, I wouldn't have let Bond go about disheveled for as long as he did.

 

Oh, wait - that's one of the parts that everyone else likes.

 

Like I said, what do I know?
 

 



#5 Major Tallon

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:46 AM

Actually, AMC Hornet, you know a great deal, and I always appreciate your views.  Yes, I know that flipping the car using the ejector seat would be impossible and that my views on things I enjoy and dislike contain numerous inconsistencies.  Cheerfully, I admit it -- guilty as charged!



#6 AMC Hornet

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:48 AM

Me too! ;)



#7 David_M

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 12:49 PM

My complaints about DAD are all over this board, so I'll forego repeating them, but short version is it's the only film in the series that actually angers me.  And that's because the first half hour or so held out real promise of something interesting and special (notwithstanding the usual "noise and fury signifying nothing" PTS).  If it had been wall-to-wall crap, I could just let it go, but there was a decent movie right there in their hands and they threw it out the window.

 

Focusing on what I did like:

 

- "Saved by the bell."  The only Brosnan one-liner that isn't a complete non-sequitur, and fits the action. (Although I gather some younger fans interpreted it as a reference to the TV show, which is both sad and hilarious)

- The credits sequence actually moves the plot along and conveys the passage of time, instead of killing time with naked girls on trampolines (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

- Faux "Cuba" is pretty

- Bond drives off in a vintage car armed only with an old revolver and "Birds of the West Indies."  I like to think he kept driving into a better movie, instead of going through a dimensional warp into the horrible one we end up with.

- Brosnan wears a nice topcoat in London

- The sword fight.  Like every Brosnan-era action scene, it's over the top and completely lacking in subtlety, but happily they couldn't think of a way to make anything explode during a sword fight (I'm sure given more time they could've managed it) 



#8 tdalton

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 02:07 AM

Die Another Day is probably the most disappointing Bond film, except for perhaps Skyfall, in that it just doesn't live up to the promise that it had.  There are a lot of really good ideas in this film (Bond infiltrating North Korea, being captured, being disavowed, prisoner exchange, Cuba), but they're all in the first half of the film and what happens after that is just so abysmally bad, as though it came out of a horrible SyFy movie of the week, that it drags everything down with it and stamps Die Another Day as the absolute worst of the franchise. 

 

How Broccoli and Wilson could watch the finished product of that tsunami surfing scene and allow it to make it into the film like that is beyond shocking.  At least they've learned from that mistake and have turned out a relatively good product since then.



#9 iBond

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 05:09 PM

As much as I have a lot of problems with Die Another Day, I consider it to be a worthy entry in the James Bond canon. I would watch it over some other James Bond films, such as Octopussy or For Your Eyes Only. But that's probable because I'm not a fan of Sir Roger and not a fan of the music in those two films. I'm sure I will get a lot of negative feedback for this comment, but it's my opinion and that's all it is. I just could not stand the whole situation with the poor CGI and the scene cutting and splicing to make it more "hip" if you will. I did get a sense of lazyness and over-the-topness of with the plane and his rediculous suit that he wore with the 100,000 volts. It was just unreal and hard to watch. But, I don't consider it to be shunned or ignored in James Bond canon. The first 40 minutes of the film were great and the beginning was a real twist! I mean, having James Bond finally captured was pretty bold and awesome. I loved it!



#10 DamnCoffee

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 11:14 PM

Did Die Another Day just become a whole lot less ridiculous?


Edited by DamnCoffee, 01 August 2015 - 11:15 PM.


#11 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 07:27 AM

Did Die Another Day just become a whole lot less ridiculous?

 

:D

 

Bond films still setting trends...



#12 Bondage007

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:14 PM

They say that men want to be him and women want to be with him. And I get that impression more with DAD than with Craig's Bond - not a comment on which are better movies, just what fits that statement.

 

When I was young, Brosnan was Bond, literally. He looked and acted cool, had the gadgets, the girls, the cars. This was before I knew of Connery, or Moore, Fleming, etc. I think most of us got into Bond from a movie experience, and for me I have Brosnan to thank. So regardless of the quality of his films, I love his Bond (save for a few oneliners). So, onto DAD. There are a few moments here, some are silly but I'm not old enough to hate on these moments...yet:

 

 - PTS

 - Van Bierk impersonation (and taking his sunnies)

 - Taking his grape and his line to the patient

 - Taking care of "wheelchair man"

 - Aston martin scenes (minus the slow down effects)

 - Raoul scene is good but unmemorable

 - The sword fight bothers me somewhat as they totally destroy the exclusive club and would face criminal charges and be expelled as members but Bond movies have rarely respected public/private property. It's a good scene otherwise (not too difficult for this movie)

 - Walking into hotel dressed like hobo (so un-Bondian but funny...go on, eject me)

 

 

And two I don't get the hate for:

 - Invisible car. Blame the CGI or something, not the car. The Lotus is no less ridiculous.

 - Madonna cameo. She is in it for 2 seconds, deal with it, it's far from DAD's worst crimes. Might as well get angry over Branson in CR.



#13 Simon

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 03:49 PM

 

The part of the car battle on ice where Bond used the ejector seat to flip the car and avoid the missile. 

 

Interesting that you approve of one of the few sequences that doesn't work for me.

 

Firing the ejector seat in the inverted vehicle would only cause the seat to bounce off the ice and then rattle around inside the car, doing serious injury to Bond. If the concussion of the firing were enough to flip the car, it would be enough to make 'strawberry jam' of our hero in the process.

 

While not a professor of physics, would the ejector seat principle not work in exactly the same way as the wood log being pummelled out of the bottom of a stunt car to make it roll?

 

Newton's 3rd law of physics - equal and opposite reactions etc.

 

Once the car was rolling out of the way of the seat, due to the immediate Reaction of the seat's Action, the seat would be left on the ice.



#14 AMC Hornet

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 06:25 PM

I'm not a physics major either, but I think the difference is that the log is being ejected from a shaft, and is still technically part of the car until it clears the shaft, plus the explosive gases have nowhere else to go except down the shaft.

 

If the seat remained connected to the car, like the catapult seat in the original Corgi AMDB5, then I could see it working.

 

No matter - I loved the stunt too. What else is amazing is that the 'Vanish' regrew its wing mirrors after they'd been smashed off during the flips.



#15 New Digs

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 06:32 PM

DAD is one of the Bonds I dislike most. However, for the most part I can forgive its many flaws. 

 

The money is up there on the screen, and while I don't think it has the artistry of Moonraker, it does deliver as solid outlandish entertainment (even if you laugh at the horrendous CGI). Whilst we could have done without Tamahori's invisible car, he does provide some energy behind the camera, so for that it is an improvement on the plodding TWINE.

 

What I hate most is the dialogue; it's the worst in the series. The scene where Bond meets Jinx must rank top of film school examples of how not to write a scene that is supposed to be witty, clever and innuendo laden. 



#16 Simon

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 07:01 PM

I'm not a physics major either, but I think the difference is that the log is being ejected from a shaft, and is still technically part of the car until it clears the shaft, plus the explosive gases have nowhere else to go except down the shaft.

 

If the seat remained connected to the car, like the catapult seat in the original Corgi AMDB5, then I could see it working.

 

No matter - I loved the stunt too. What else is amazing is that the 'Vanish' regrew its wing mirrors after they'd been smashed off during the flips.

 

Fair play.

 

On the wing mirror side, didn't notice that.  Need to see again.



#17 Goodnight

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:26 AM

People seem to not realise that the DNA replacement therapy lark was a lot more ridiculous than the invisible car.

Agree that the digalogue between Bond and Jinx could have been written better, or perhaps Brosnan not coming across like he's the best looking, hottest person ever, coz he wasn't.

#18 ChickenStu

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 01:56 PM

Starts off very very well and then about halfway through just turns into a weird parody of itself. Do not like it at all. 



#19 DaveBond21

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 12:02 AM

Den of Geek have gotten around to this one too:-

 

http://www.denofgeek...die-another-day



#20 Stokes_

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 09:36 AM

I've heard and read people say they're fond of, "Saved by the bell."  The Den of Geek write up even praise it (along with, "Time to face gravity," which I think is hands down the worst kiss-off line in the series).

 

I absolutely hate, "Saved by the bell," perhaps more than anything in 'Die Another Day' (and I dislike a vast amount of it).  Reason being, who the HELL is Bond saying it to?

 

It's like he has a deep-seated urge to get a pun out, regardless of whether there's an audience or not.  

 

Maybe he had to pick up a new 70-a-day habit when he quit smoking...



#21 sharpshooter

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 10:08 AM

I absolutely hate, "Saved by the bell," perhaps more than anything in 'Die Another Day' (and I dislike a vast amount of it).  Reason being, who the HELL is Bond saying it to?

It's no different to 'bon appétit" in YOLT, or "he's branched off" in OHMSS. He often amuses himself in the films. 



#22 Major Tallon

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 10:58 AM

Puns, often called the lowest form of humor, can be funny, particularly when they're unexpected or make a play on words in a novel way.  For me, "Saved by the bell" falls in that category, and I'm not put off by the fact that it's delivered to the audience.  The problem with puns, and their use reached almost epidemic proportions in the last couple of Brosnan films, is that they rapidly wear out their welcome.  When a character is given a name just so it can set up a pun (Mr. Kil has a "name to die for") and bits of dialog have no other purpose (a relationship is "strictly plutonic") there's nothing clever about the use of language, and the attempt at humor is obviously and painfully forced. 

 

I'll give "Saved by the bell" a pass, but that's about as far as I'll go.



#23 tdalton

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 02:48 PM

I'd have to agree that there's nothing wrong with Bond saying the line to himself (and the audience). After an intense action sequence and a daring escape, it would be understandable for Bond to utter something like that under his breath, even if only to relieve his own tension following such a moment were it to actually happen.

That said, though, the pun isn't a great one, even though it's certainly better than pretty much every one-liner that follows in the film.

#24 DaveBond21

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 02:56 AM

I love "Saved by the bell" and the audience laughed in the cinema when I went to see it (both times).