22 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

"The World Is Not Enough" (re-watch)

 

I defended this film for a long time.  Maybe I´m still trying to do that.  But after re-watching it, TWINE is slipping down in my ranking.

 

A lot.

 

I have no problem with Bond wishing to protect Elektra and falling for her.  I welcome EON trying to do something different, telling a more character-based story within the Bond formula with a female villain.  But despite one of the greatest scenes in the whole franchise (yep, my beloved "I never miss"-moment) the film does not manage to entwine (sorry) the ideas with the requirements of the action blockbuster-elements.  Somehow I got the feeling that eliminating the (not particularly inventive or entertaining) action beats (save the great boat chase) the film could have become more interesting, making more room for Bond falling for Elektra, and Renard establishing himself as not only a really scary but also sad villain.

 

What has been said a lot before really is true, of course: TWINE juggles lots of elements that were used in SKYFALL to much better effect.  So this film might be a transitional experiment that did not come off as originally intended, straightjacketed by the expectations for a Bond film.

 

Still, Brosnan delivers and, once again, plays Bond so much tougher than he is given credit for.  And David Arnold´s title song and score are hauntingly beautiful.

 

And although I like Sophie Marceau and Robert Carlyle, they seem to be miscast.  Marceau never convinces me of being the innocent victim, therefore the revelation is not as powerful as it should be.  Carlyle is not physically imposing or threatening at all, and giving him a Pleasence-like scarred eye does not help either.

 

So, why did I love this film so much before and not so much now?

 

One word, I guess: SKYFALL.

[David_M]

I liked the idea of Bond falling for Elektra pretty much because of her sad life story; it's consistent with Fleming's Bond always going for the "bird with a wing down."  The scene where he moves to wipe a tear from her image on the viewscreen may be corny, but it worked for me. Women are Bond's one real weak point, and it was past time for a film to explore the plot potential, there.  

 

That said, the film is a mess and I disliked it from the start.  The emotional stuff is overplayed, the action scenes are cartoonish and together they make for a film that can't settle on a tone.  By the time Bond and Renard started fighting each other juggling plutonium rods with their bare hands, I was asking the Mrs "can we just slip out and go to dinner now?"

 

I didn't even dig the "I never miss" scene.  Trained assassin with a loaded automatic pistol versus an emotionally manipulative girl armed with...um...a walkie-talkie.  And he wins!!! That's a "woo-hoo" moment?  Of course, it's later outdone by the scene in Skyfall where, after having failed to save a girl from getting shot in the head, Bond manages to...uhm...radio some  helicopters to come bail him out.  Woo-hoo!  Cue the James Bond theme,  in "triumph" mode!

 

TWINE is easily the least-watched Bond DVD in my collection.  I don't know that it's the worst, in fact I'm pretty sure it isn't, but it's certainly the least appealing for me.

[SecretAgentFan]

I would argue that both are no "woo-hoo"-moments.  

 

In TWINE it is a sad moment in which Bond, of course, instinctively and without hesitating eliminates the threat.  Yet, he can mourn what has become of Elektra and that they did not have a real chance together.  No Bond theme is played in that scene.

 

In SKYFALL Bond deliberately misses, trying to save Severine.  Unfortunately, Silva tries to prove his dominance and kills Severine any way.  But Bond uses that moment, making Silva and the others feel superior when it is actually him who plays them.  Therefore, surprising them all and gaining the upper hand again, the Bond theme is played.  Not as a "woo-hoo"-moment but to underline that Bond has won this fight.  Of course, Severine´s death is tragic - but there are always people who die during Bond´s missions.  And let´s not forget that Severine willingly takes part in other killings.

[David_M]

 

 

In TWINE it is a sad moment in which Bond, of course, instinctively and without hesitating eliminates the threat. 

 

That's an interesting take.  Maybe when (if) I watch it again, it'll work better for me in that context.  Too bad his reflexes aren't better, though, since the "threat" has already been carried through once he gets around to plugging her.

 

 

 

No Bond theme is played in that scene.

 

 

No, but it's often held up as a "defining" or "iconic" moment from the series, right up there with "You've had your six."  I don't think it deserves that status.  But that's what makes horse races.

 

 

 

In SKYFALL Bond deliberately misses, trying to save Severine.  Unfortunately, Silva tries to prove his dominance and kills Severine any way.  But Bond uses that moment, making Silva and the others feel superior when it is actually him who plays them. 

 

Well...I certainly don't get the impression that Bond has maneuvered these guys "right where he wants them."  I think he's in a bad spot, and when he turns the tables it's a combination of spontaneous improvisation and dumb luck. Basically, he pulls a win out of his ass.  The copters were on the way all the time, since he's been transmitting his homing signal (with a HUGE transmitter...thankfully no one ever thinks to frisk him) for a long time.  It's nice that the copters show up to get him out of trouble (or else it would've been a much shorter film) but it would've been more of a "victory" if they'd made it there in time to save his ally.  Severine's death makes it a partial victory at best, in my book.

 

And don't forget, we soon learn Silva WANTED Bond to "play him" as part of his larger plan.  So really, it's no victory at all.

That said, I agree "saving the girl" was never really part of the mission, so no points off on that score, I guess.  Unlike the second half of the film, where "Saving the girl" (M) is indeed his mission, and he gets her killed, too.

 

Mommas, don't let your daughters grow up to date James Bond...

Edited by David_M, 21 May 2015 - 06:38 PM.

[glidrose]

What I cannot abide about this film is how truly ugly looking it is. By far the worst photographed Bond flick. Muddy, grimy colors. So murky looking. I'd love to know what was going through the DOP and director's heads. Also love to know what went through EON's heads when they saw the daily rushes. "Oh good. This looks like somebody left the negative out in the sun for a decade. Wait, this isn't a twelfth generation video copy?"

The film ranks low with me, but it would have been okay if it has been beautifully shot like TND. Hell, I would have even accepted it had it been shot like GE.

I can't tell you how much I hated the "kidnap M" plot point. Entirely trashed the memory of Kingsley Amis with that one.

 

UPDATE: The flick also has another dubious distinction: they don't even get the ski chase right.

Edited by glidrose, 23 May 2015 - 07:29 PM.

[tdalton]

  And let´s not forget that Severine willingly takes part in other killings.

 

I doubt very much that she's a willing participant in the other killings.  She's basically a slave to Silva.  She knows that if she runs, he'll kill her.  Her bodyguards aren't really there to protect her, but more to control her, yet allowing her a certain level of "freedom" as long as she stays within the parameters of her assignment, but it's very much clear that this is a woman who has no free will when it comes to the vast majority of things in her life.  

[DaveBond21]

I always stick up for this one. I always enjoy the PTS (although the actual pre-titles should have been Bilbao only). The boat chase is amazing and a lot of work went into staging it.

 

The Q scene is good, and the Bond girls are fine. I disagree that the film's problems lie in the melodrama or emotional side; I actually think it's the bland action scenes that are to blame, in particular the stand-off in the nuclear base, the caviar factory scene and the climax.

 

I sometimes wonder what it would be like if a Bond movie finished off with something spectactular like the PTS - the only movies that really finish with a bang are Dr No, FRWL and Octopussy.

[Simon]

My disdain for this film has been documented elsewhere but in the interests of engagement, and just in case the forum updates have deleted the comments from times past, I can't resist weighing in again.

 

Poor Apted was mis-hired.  He really wasn't the man for this job and it shows in every single possible way.  His documentary experience demonstrates no style or framing of shots.  The whip pan in the PTS to have the museum in the shot was woeful.  His TV-like method of having a static establishing shot of a building before going inside to an over-lit film set was fantastically ordinary.  For the most part, I actually blame the producers for this result.

 

Richards' Jones character could have been completely done away with.

 

Robert Carlisle was not given a great deal to do, even though the superb set up of not feeling pain was suggested.  This could have been explored to greater effect.

 

The boat chase was really not exciting. Lots of determined drawing along side a bigger boat with a grimacing Brosnan should have been curtailed and most certainly, if Bond can spiral over a machine gun and go under water, then why in the Lord's good name could he not have shot through the bit of flame that gave him all this pause for concern and decision making.

 

The marketing ploy for having every demographic in the world catered for via the inclusion of Drama, Acting, Humour, Emotion, Slapstick, Action made for an unevenly balanced film.  This was different from having the drama lightened with a throwaway line. 

 

As was mentioned in the Top Gear car retrospective.  The BMW drove backwards five metres, stopped, and fired a rocket before being cut in half.  Yeah, well I guess it was different.

 

The hugely anticipated walkways action scene also fell totally flat.  Maybe the way Brosnan fired a gun in those days with lots of effort and intent, and sideways angling, made the whole affair look a little less professional than was otherwise expected.  He had sorted it all out for DAD.

 

The other (hugely anticipated) action scene involving the ski chase and the Para gliders....  Deary me.  As soon as I noted that the ones doing the chasing were strapped to bloody great big wind drags, I did wonder, with disdain, and a complete lack of hope, how this chase would work out.  However, 'they' said they went back to look at what made the FYEO ski chase so thrilling so I figured Things were in hand.  They weren't.  Those doing the chasing bumped into trees and when they tried to do something effective, all they had to offer was to drop little grenades over the side, as would a yob chuck a paper water bomb off a top floor building.  This is WW1 territory, when biplanes would chuck their bombs over the side of the cockpit.

 

I have always lost interest in this film by the time the chasing around the inside of the submarine scene arrives, so I assume this is a bit drab too, irrespective of the plutonium rod handling.  That said, Brosnan does put his all into it.  Note when both Bond and Jones surface, Brosnan does appear out of breath from the depth and the energy.  Richards pops up as though after a quick head dunk.

 

So, if most of the boat chase, Cleese's character, Richards' character, the ski chase, the walkways scene, and the submarine is done away with, I reckon there is roughly half an hour's worth of useable material.

 

All too pedestrian and documentary style to be enjoyably engaging.

[David_M]

 

 

Richards' Jones character could have been completely done away with.

 

But...but then we would never have gotten that great "Christmas" joke at the end of the film.  And we'd all been waiting for it for months, ever since the character's name was announced in press releases and every internet user on Earth predicted it.

 

 

 

As was mentioned in the Top Gear car retrospective.  The BMW drove backwards five metres, stopped, and fired a rocket before being cut in half.  Yeah, well I guess it was different.

 

That was actually one of the few bright spots in the film, for me.  I took at as the filmmakers saying, "Look, we're as sick of this lame-ass BMW contract as you are.  Next time we'll get an Aston Martin, promise." 

[Simon]

 

Yeah ok.  Fair play on the BMW idea.

[New Digs]

My disdain for this film has been documented elsewhere but in the interests of engagement, and just in case the forum updates have deleted the comments from times past, I can't resist weighing in again.

Poor Apted was mis-hired. He really wasn't the man for this job and it shows in every single possible way. His documentary experience demonstrates no style or framing of shots. The whip pan in the PTC to have the museum in the shot was woeful. His TV-like method of having a static establishing shot of a building before going inside to an over-lit film set was fantastically ordinary. For the most part, I actually blame the producers for this result.

Richards' Jones character could have been completely done away with.

Robert Carlisle was not given a great deal to do, even though the superb set up of not feeling pain was suggested. This could have been explored to greater effect.

The boat chase was really not exciting. Lots of determined drawing along side a bigger boat with a grimacing Brosnan should have been curtailed and most certainly, if Bond can spiral over a machine gun and go under water, then why in the Lord's good name could he not have shot through the bit o flame that gave him all this pause for concern and decision making.

The marketing ploy for having every demographic in the world catered for via the inclusion of Drama, Acting, Humour, Emotion, Slapstick, Action made for an unevenly balanced film. This was different from having the drama lightened with a throwaway line.

As was mentioned in the Top Gear car retrospective. The BMW drove backwards five metres, stopped, and fired a rocket before being cut in half. Yeah, well I guess it was different.

The hugely anticipated walkways action scene also fell totally flat. Maybe the way Brosnan fired a gun in those days with lots of effort and intent and sideways angling made the whole affair look a little less professional than was otherwise expected. He had sorted it all out for DAD.

The other (hugely anticipated) action scene involving the ski chase and the Para gliders.... Deary me. As soon as I noted that the ones doing the chasing were strapped to bloody great big wind drags, I did wonder, with disdain, and a complete lack of hope, how this chase would work out. However, 'they' said they went back to look at what made the FYEO ski chase so thrilling so I figured Things were in hand. They weren't. Those doing the chasing bumped into trees and when they tried to do something effective, all they had to offer was to drop little grenades over the side, as would a yob chuck a paper water bomb off a top floor building. This is WW1 territory, when biplanes would chuck their bombs over the side of the cockpit.

I have always lost interest by the time the chasing around the inside of the submarine scene arrives so I assume this is a bit drab too, irrespective of the plutonium rod handling. That said, Brosnan does put his all into it. Note when both Bond and Jones surface, Brosnan does appear out of breath from the depth and the energy. Richards pops up as though after a quick head dunk.

So, if most of the boat chase, Cleese's character, Richards' character, the ski chase, the walkways scene, and the submarine is done away with, I reckon there is roughly half an hour's worth of useable material.

All to pedestrian and documentary style to be enjoyably engaging.

I agree with most points here. Though probably the high point of the film, the boat chase is good but overrated; there are much greater action sequences in the Bond series with more tension and drama. It's lifted by the location and would have been much more effective worked into the film at a later stage.

Apted was indeed was mis-hired. A competent capable director and good story teller, but his plodding play it safe style is very much evident for me. I never get the feeling he was excited by what he was doing. There is no sense of style, atmosphere or flair to anything in the film.

The 'climax' of the film is dull. Brosnan and Carlyle do their best with it, but if the phone went I doubt I would hit the pause button and the least said about the closing line the better.

TWINE is ok for passing a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon but top drawer Bond it ain't.

Edited by New Digs, 24 May 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[glidrose]

Peter Jackson, Stephen Frears and Tony Scott were all considered to direct this film.

 

Let's not forget Peter Lamont's entirely underwhelming sets. Remember the producers said they would increase his budget for TWINE, immediately after his "Titanic" win?

 

Funny thing is, this film actually got excellent reviews on first release. Too many critics and fanboys  said it was an improvement over the supposedly disappointing TND.

[tdalton]

There's virtually nothing about this film that can be defended, but I'll give it a try in one of the more controversial areas of the film: Denise Richards.

 

I'll give her this, and I've said it around here before, at least she's giving an effort.  She's not a great actress by any definition of the term, but she's at least trying here.  You almost get the sense that the "serious" thespians like Marceau, Carlyle, Brosnan, Dench, and so on knew just how pathetic the material was and proceeded to sleepwalk through this mess of a film.  They still come off as better than Richards, because they have considerably more talent than she does, but it's obvious that they're not performing up to their usual standards. 

 

I think she would have been better served if they hadn't made her character a nuclear physicist.  Obviously, she's not believable as such, but I think that they could have come up with something else that could have put her in a better position to succeed.

 

As for the rest of the film, there really is no defense of it.  It's a mess, and the only thing that keeps it from being the worst film in the franchise is the fact that EON also made The Man with the Golden Gun and Die Another Day.  Apted was a terrible choice to direct this film, and I would have to agree with a point made earlier in this thread that a lot of the parts are miscast as well.  Marceau and Carlyle are good actors, but they're not great fits for their parts.  You can see Elektra's betrayal coming from several miles away and, for a villain who can't feel pain, Carlyle's Renard isn't at all menacing.  Talk about a wasted opportunity in the villain department.

[Simon]

I must admit to TWODDLE being my personal worst Bond film.

 

I do prefer the charm of Gg, and the ridiculousness of DAD.  Both films were more colourful, more strident and more accomplished than Brosnan's third.  It comes last, And it is digging.

[New Digs]

I remember reading the review in the Sunday Times and I was dissapointed cause it wasn't favourable. Then I went to see the film and left the cinema feeling equally disappointed. Still as mentioned above audiences did like it. It was well recieved on Radio1 and I think there were two venues on the premiere night in London owing to Bonds popularity at the time. Off the success of TWINE Apted went on to direct Jenifer Lopez in Enough. There is no doubt the film was helped massively by the boat chase and Brosnan as Bond and his performance in the film. But after re watching recently I can't get excited about anything in this film at all.

[ChickenStu]

Hmm. I could appreciate what they were trying to do with this one. One got the feeling that they were trying to ape early Connery a bit in terms of plot, and keep the action modern in an attempt to get the best of both worlds. Sadly the experiment failed and the film IMO is very, very dull. Brosnan I feel is the victim here. He gives a great performance as Our Man and one gets the feeling he believed in the script. And that final one liner is a real groaner. 

Edited by ChickenStu, 12 August 2015 - 01:55 PM.

[DaveBond21]

The Den of Geek have reviewed this one too;-

 

http://www.denofgeek...d-is-not-enough

[PrinceKamalKhan]

The Den of Geek have reviewed this one too;-

 

http://www.denofgeek...d-is-not-enough

 

Thanks, DaveBond21.

 

Here's the money quote from the article:

"My biggest problem with Christmas is she dilutes the impact of Elektra. As soon as Bond expresses misgivings about Miss King the shock is gone. Why? Because a replacement girl was wheeled on stage five minutes previously It's as if Bond knew the logic of his own film: hond on, two women, they can't both be the girl - the first one must be bad. 

 

"Once again, imagine something. That Christmas didn't exist. Aside from the lack of heartwarming John Lewis adverts, the whole Elektra betrayal would be ten times more shocking. Even once she turned bad, without the safety net of Doctor Jones the audience would presume her eventual repentance. Surely Bond wins her over before she breaks his neck? And then she kills Valentin and suddenly the film falls from under you. If only The World Is Not Enough was willing to break a few rules."

 

In retrospect, TWINE was EON's failed attempt to give Brosnan his OHMSS/CR type Bond film but sadly they decided to mix it up with AVTAK. Brosnan's Bond thinks he's found in Elektra his Tracy/Vesper who turns out to be a Helga Brandt/Fiona Volpe instead so as a consolation prize, he gets in Christmas Jones(a.k.a. the Brosnan era's answer to Bibi Dahl and Stacey Sutton) to happily end the film in the standard formulaic manner since EON wasn't brave enough in 1999 to give the story a tragic ending that would've worked far more effectively. I think if they had attempted to film CR 7 years earlier, the final result would've probably looked like the schizophrenic mess that TWINE sadly turned into. Thankfully, by the time the CR novel fell into their hands, they had learned from their mistakes on TWINE and gave us the best Bond film since TLD.

[Pierceuhhh]

Loved it at 13, can barely muster up the energy to put it in the Blu Ray player now.

Most of the above complaints nail it. The whole thing is visually static establishing shots, clunking retirement home action sequences where every stuntman and vehicle moves like it's on a tram track at Knott's Berry Farm, and a plot that we just keep getting told about rather than seeing.

Couldn't the pre-credits scene have been Bond rescuing Elektra from her kidnapping? Couldn't we have seen Bond put a bullet in Renard's head? There's 30 minutes of convoluted backstory. Everything is overcomplicated. Chuck in a chilling right-wing cronyism and misunderstanding of what the secret service is actually meant to do, with Bond inexplicably protecting the interests of an oil plutocrat who's personal friends with his boss, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Purvis and Wade are partly to blame. I have the first draft, and believe it or not Feirstein and Stevens actually improved it. The mess of a plot remains, only it's even thinner and cruder. It reads like a 14 year old's fanfic. I can only assume P&W are lively and the Broccolis get on with them, because this script was a disaster from the moment of conception.

On the plus side, Brosnan gets more room to breathe and be himself than in TND and DAD - I like his flustered, seemingly improvised, very human countenance throughout the submarine finale. I also like Coltrane (kind of), the torture chair and the shot of Bond jumping off the balcony.

[David_M]

I agree the Den of Geek review nails it on several points, but the standout is that observation that we'd really be better off without Christmas Jones.  Not, as they point out, because the acting is terrible (though it is) or the part is unbelievable (it is), but because shoe-horning her into the plot sabotages the whole "OMG, the Bond girl is really the villain!" concept.  This is something that could have worked IF Elektra was the only love interest in the film, but as it is we're not allowed to invest much interest in her, so we don't care if she's bad or not, and we (or anyway I) don't care much when Bond kills her, either.  It should have meant something, and it just doesn't.

 

To a lesser extent, this has always bugged me with OHMSS, as well.  We're supposed to think Bond's head over heels for Tracy even while he's shagging 8 girls a night at Piz Gloria.  Granted he doesn't propose until he escapes that snowbound harem, but given his promiscuity up til that point, we have to assume what finally made Tracy "THE" woman was her driving skill and the fact that she's just saved Bond's hide.  Not really much to hang a successful marriage on.  Aside from the viewer's natural affection for Dame Diana Rigg as a performer, there's not a lot to get choked up about when she's snuffed, or anyway not much reason to think it's something our fickle and horny hero won't get over (heartwarming "beaches and horses" montage notwithstanding...sorry, Louis!)

 

The Elektra thing gets to the heart of the basic problem with TWINE, which is that it's totally schizoid.  It wants to be a "heavy" film in the way the Craig entries eventually will be:  personal stakes for Bond, lots of emotional weight, betrayals and heartbreaking decisions.  But at the same time it wants to be a (then) standard comic-book Bond movie with cartoon stunts and gadgets.  At times it's so over the top it makes a Moore Bond look like a Merchant-Ivory film. It tries to be everything and succeeds, really, at nothing.

[Hockey Mask]

Still better than the cookie cutter Tomorrow Never Dies.

[Turn]

Successful cookie cutter Bond is better than failed wanna-be heavy, serious drama Bond, IMO.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Couldn't the pre-credits scene have been Bond rescuing Elektra from her kidnapping? Couldn't we have seen Bond put a bullet in Renard's head? 

 

An excellent idea although I would miss the contributions of the Cigar Girl(my favorite Brosnan-era villainess).

 

To a lesser extent, this has always bugged me with OHMSS, as well.  We're supposed to think Bond's head over heels for Tracy even while he's shagging 8 girls a night at Piz Gloria.  Granted he doesn't propose until he escapes that snowbound harem, but given his promiscuity up til that point, we have to assume what finally made Tracy "THE" woman was her driving skill and the fact that she's just saved Bond's hide.  Not really much to hang a successful marriage on.  Aside from the viewer's natural affection for Dame Diana Rigg as a performer, there's not a lot to get choked up about when she's snuffed, or anyway not much reason to think it's something our fickle and horny hero won't get over (heartwarming "beaches and horses" montage notwithstanding...sorry, Louis!)

 

OHMSS has become one of my favorite Bond films but I have that same problem with it as well. Tracy's disappearance from the film for a solid hour while "Sir Hilary Bray" gleefully works his way through Blofeld's Angels of Death with nary a thought about Tracy does tend to undermine OHMSS's claim to the title of most romantic Bond film. I think that title should go to TLD instead which eschews the standard 3 girl formula, introduces Kara early on where she remains the only woman Bond is interested in without her character disappearing for such a long stretch of the running time. (Plus Dalton and Maryam d'Abo have such a strong, natural chemistry together that makes the Bond/Kara romance plausible and believable.)