23 replies to this topic

[Kristian]

Hi, folks.   While I'm simply chuffed that the lovely Ms. Monica B. is a Bond Woman at the age of 50, I fear and suspect that she will be relegated to that curious thing that has become a recurring trope in Danny C's flicks: The Secondary Chick Who Bond Bangs and Exits Stage Left.  I'm looking at you, Solange, Severine, and Strawberry.  Or, rather, I'm looking at the the twerps who wrote your roles.  Not your fault, ladies...

 

Hope I'm wrong about Lucia.  God, I miss the days when we had TWO actively participating Bond Ladies...  The last one was DIE ANOTHER DAY.   Jinx J. and Miranda F. were the best things in that flick....

 

Siiiiiigh.

[SecretAgentFan]

Well, the sacrificial lamb has always been an element of the Bond films.  So, what has changed, really?

[# 11]

The Secondary Chick Who Bond Bangs and Exits Stage Left.  I'm looking at you, Solange, Severine, and Strawberry.

Let's call them the "S GIRLS"! S stands for some three letter word.

 

Lucia doesn't begin with an S though. I'm hopeful.

(Yes, Sciarra and Swann do.)

[RMc2]

Well, the sacrificial lamb has always been an element of the Bond films.  So, what has changed, really?

 

Seconded. They fulfil a classic Bond trope, even if it's a disappointingly dated one.

 

But they do seem to keep throwing away these characters too soon - apart from Solange, whose exit held the proper weight. Strawberry and (especially) Severine were badly underused, basically being episodes in the larger story, and only barely being useful enough to count as plot devices. Think TND did it better...

[stromberg]

The Secondary Chick Who Bond Bangs and Exits Stage Left.  I'm looking at you, Solange, Severine, and Strawberry.

Let's call them the "S GIRLS"! S stands for some three letter word.
 
Lucia doesn't begin with an S though. I'm hopeful.
(Yes, Sciarra and Swann do.)

http://mpsmeaningofl...chopenhauer-was

[glidrose]

Hi, folks.   While I'm simply chuffed that the lovely Ms. Monica B. is a Bond Woman at the age of 50, I fear and suspect that she will be relegated to that curious thing that has become a recurring trope in Danny C's flicks: The Secondary Chick Who Bond Bangs and Exits Stage Left.  I'm looking at you, Solange, Severine, and Strawberry.  Or, rather, I'm looking at the the twerps who wrote your roles.  Not your fault, ladies...

Siiiiiigh.

Hey, don't forget Ivana Miličević. Who is she you ask? Valenka in CR'06. Talk about underused...

[Guy Haines]

As well as the secondary leading lady who doesn't survive to the end of the film, we've yet to see Craig's Bond have his wicked way with the primary leading lady and see her survive to the end either. CR2006 - all three Bond women (Counting Ivana Milicevic above) are killed off. QoS - well of course Camille Montes survived the film, but she was an ally more than a Bond woman in the traditional sense. SF - again, Eve is an ally, and we know who she turned out to be in the end.

 

Will Spectre break the pattern? We'll know in November.

[Kristian]

Agreed to all your posts, guys.  I would say that as much as I love the Craig era, I'm a bit miffed at how muted the women's roles are.  At least we had spice and pizzazz and daring during the Brosnan era.  Heck, even Christmas Jones was okay and active as a character (once you accepted that EON was hellbent on casting a twentysomething American hottie to draw the PlayStation Crowd).

I mean, come on: Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist is what makes TWINE a damn Bond movie....

 

In the Craig era, though, it's been pretty vanilla for the ladies, thus far.  As one of you gents mentioned  above, will SPECTRE break the pattern - November will tell...

[Kristian]

 

Well, the sacrificial lamb has always been an element of the Bond films.  So, what has changed, really?

 

Seconded. They fulfil a classic Bond trope, even if it's a disappointingly dated one.

 

But they do seem to keep throwing away these characters too soon - apart from Solange, whose exit held the proper weight. Strawberry and (especially) Severine were badly underused, basically being episodes in the larger story, and only barely being useful enough to count as plot devices. Think TND did it better...

 

Exactly.  While the "sacrificial lamb" has always been part of the Bond Mythos, there's something regressive about how the Craig Era has embraced it relentlessly.  Ever since FYEO, we've had two Bond Girls who are actively part of the story.  Obviously TLD was an anomaly.  But, Hell, even Lupe survived LTK and I was sure she was a goner.  Her living past the end credits was a pleasant surprise.  

 

TND was the only one until Danny C. arrived that re-introduced the "sacrificial lamb" trope.  But at least Paris C. was surprisingly compelling and her death actually powered the story.  By contrast, the "sacrificial lambs" in the Craig films (excepting Solange) feel quite thankless and, well, innocuous.  Severine as essayed wonderfully by Berenice M. and the character had so much  potential and Berenice deserve more room to strut her stuff, but apparently Logan and Mendes felt that she should exit stage left as soon as possible in a particularly effed-up re-do of the William Tell legend...  

 

Madeline Swann better be one kick-ass Bond Girl to make up for all her sistahs who got the shaft....

[tdalton]

The sacrificial lamb thing has gotten pretty old, especially in the Craig films where they are given so little character development, especially when considering the supposed "depth" that these films claim to aim for, that their presence feels rather exploitative.    

[The Shark]

Severine was far from underused in SF. Her terrific scene with Bond in the casino definitely made more of an impression than Solange in her screen-time. My problem was with the tone after Severine's death; not so much Bond's line, but the shootout and Newman's playful action cue. Reminds me of the insensitive way Bruce Feirstein handled Paris's death (even if she miscast and poorly written), by having Bond laughing his ass off 5 minutes later as he pisses about with his remote control car.

[Kristian]

The sacrificial lamb thing has gotten pretty old, especially in the Craig films where they are given so little character development, especially when considering the supposed "depth" that these films claim to aim for, that their presence feels rather exploitative.    

No one could've said it better, T.  Not sure if EON thinks they are beefing up Bond's relationship with the Main Girl by minimizing his relationship with the Secondary Girl.  If so, they can do that without making the Second Girl seem like fodder.  And I agree with Shark's comment about Severine being used effectively in SF - for the woefully brief time she was onscreen.  I just wish she'd have been around longer.  I think we can agree that Berenice M. stole that Casino scene right from under Danny.  

 

One thing I will say about the Dalton and  Brosnan eras: the women were utilized adequately.  So much so that when Michael Apted was promoting TWINE, and he said that he went out of his way to ensure Elektra and Christmas were relevant to the plot and had things to do rather than stand around and look pretty, I remember thinking: "But Michael haven't you seen THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, LICENCE TO KILL, GOLDENEYE, and TOMORROW NEVER DIES?" Those women weren't exactly wallpaper..."  

[seawolfnyy]

Well, it is rather unfortunate that Christmas Jones was necessary to the plot. I feel that the Bond girls now are used in service of the story and not just for Bond to sex up. He never gets with Moneypenny because she wasn't interested, nor was Camille. Skyfall was about more than the girls and eye worked in service of the story.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Spectre Bond Girls Lea Seydoux and Monica Bellucci featuring in the Hot 100 for the June/July issue Of Maxim.

[Professor Pi]

I thought Paris' sacrificial lamb scene was handled pretty well, especially the moment when Bond shifts his focus from remorse to Kaufman--"if you shoot me from over there, it won't look like a suicide."  Brosnan does a great job with that scene.

 

SPECTRE has taken a bold step in casting Monica Bellucci.  Sadly, I think she'll be the lamb and Swann the survivor.  But if they really are going to follow through with a twist that inverts the Bond trope on its head (and they've been teasing with that the last three films), he should end up with Lucia Sciara.  Either way, Monica Bellucci will be my favorite part of the film.

[Shrublands]

Quite a bit in USA Today. 

(I should mention, there are spoilers!)

 

http://www.usatoday....-lifetopstories

 

plus

 

http://www.usatoday....esses/30256597/

 

And new stills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Major Tallon]

Thanks for the tip, Shrublands.  Ironic that you saw it before I did.

[Silva25]

I do dislike that they brought back the "girl who's only purpose is to bang Bond and then die" trope so blatantly after the Brosnan films (Paris Carver aside) got away from it.  It's just gotten really old by now.

 

But WOW, this is an amazing collection of Bond Women here.

 

 

Well, the sacrificial lamb has always been an element of the Bond films.  So, what has changed, really?

 

Seconded. They fulfil a classic Bond trope, even if it's a disappointingly dated one.

 

But they do seem to keep throwing away these characters too soon - apart from Solange, whose exit held the proper weight. Strawberry and (especially) Severine were badly underused, basically being episodes in the larger story, and only barely being useful enough to count as plot devices. Think TND did it better...

 

Exactly.  While the "sacrificial lamb" has always been part of the Bond Mythos, there's something regressive about how the Craig Era has embraced it relentlessly.  Ever since FYEO, we've had two Bond Girls who are actively part of the story.  Obviously TLD was an anomaly.  But, Hell, even Lupe survived LTK and I was sure she was a goner.  Her living past the end credits was a pleasant surprise.  

 

TND was the only one until Danny C. arrived that re-introduced the "sacrificial lamb" trope.  But at least Paris C. was surprisingly compelling and her death actually powered the story.  By contrast, the "sacrificial lambs" in the Craig films (excepting Solange) feel quite thankless and, well, innocuous.  Severine as essayed wonderfully by Berenice M. and the character had so much  potential and Berenice deserve more room to strut her stuff, but apparently Logan and Mendes felt that she should exit stage left as soon as possible in a particularly effed-up re-do of the William Tell legend...  

 

Madeline Swann better be one kick-ass Bond Girl to make up for all her sistahs who got the shaft....

 

Agreed.  The Craig era does so many things right (including giving us really good main Bond Women like Vesper and Camille) that it's almost MORE disappointing that they've gone back to this tired old trope so heavily.  Don't do it again SPECTRE.

Edited by Silva25, 22 July 2015 - 07:29 PM.

[Bondage007]

When will we get another character like Fiona Volpe? Miranda was close but unfortunately dragged down by a poor film

[Silva25]

I would argue that Xenia Onatopp was the least truly great Bond henchperson (male or female) that we've gotten (we'll see how Dave Bautista does in this movie). 

Edited by Silva25, 13 August 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[Darthyan]

Not to necro I think that Madeline is supposed to be in part Bond's redemption for failing to save Vesper. I'm pretty sure that part of the climax will be oberhauser putting Maddie in danger and challenging Bond "stop me or save the woman you love. Will you let her die again."

[Surrie]

Just re-read this thread and would be interesting to see what people think about the use of Madeleine and Lucia now the film has been released?? Unfortunately Monica was tossed aside rather quickly (which I think we all anticipated), but it was refreshing to see Seydoux's Bond girl play a pivotal role in the film. Not only as Bond's love interest but as an ally almost as well. It was a welcome change to the overused formula of Bond girls in Craig's films thus far! 

 

I enjoyed Swann's character, liked her background story, and the way she actually lives at the end!! Although, EON might have a bigger plan for her - perhaps in Bond 25? My only qualm - I would have liked to see more time spent on building the relationship of Swann and Bond. Longer set dialogue in L'Americain and the dinner scene on the train could have been improved IMO.

 

Thoughts?  

[Professor Pi]

Since crowds and critics aren't raving about the chemistry between them, I don't think they'll bring her back.  Though, dramatically, they should.

[Surrie]

Since crowds and critics aren't raving about the chemistry between them, I don't think they'll bring her back.  Though, dramatically, they should.

 

It depends on whether EON will stick to the traditional Bond formula or surprise us all and shake things up slightly as they have been fond of doing in Craig's era. What I mean by 'traditional Bond formula' is that past films within the franchise have demonstrated great chemistry with the leading lady (e.g. Bond and Natalya in GE) but haven't felt the need to bring her back or even recognise in future movies that those events even ever happened. 

 

So EON can either use SPECTRE and Bond 25 as a turning point in Craig's era by not bringing Swann back, therefore sticking to the 'traditional Bond formula' of past films...

 

OR

 

They can bring her back and allow his films once again to follow on from the last, and have us wondering whether we will see stand alone Bond films again in the franchise. 

 

If Craig does do one more film then I think they will go with the latter choice and proactively decide to end his era as Bond with some continuity. Then for Bond 26 a new actor can come into the role and carry on where Brosnan left off and make some more stand-alone films.