33 replies to this topic

[Simon]

Has anyone heard if there are to be releases of the above with proper documentaries attached to the films?

 

Or has the falling away of the DVD sell-thru proposition made it impossible to release such ventures?  I must admit I am probably not the best person to know the DVD market anymore.  Indeed are there Special Editions of any films being released these days?

 

Cheers.

[Turn]

Good discussion point.

 

It seems the good old days of the super special editions are mostly gone, save for some of the really big blockbusters. The last time a Bond film did that was adding to the special features of CR basically1.5 years after its home video release. Subsequent releases have been disappointing to say the least.

 

I think part of it is the availability of instant information on blogs and such. That and dropping sales for DVD and Blu-ray and they figure why go to the extra expense. This was reflected a couple of years ago in the lazy and uninspired bonus disc in the Bond 50 collection. 

 

There could be hope later this year as it would be the perfect time to tie into SPECTRE by giving improved versions of QoS and SF that inevitably come with the release of a new film. Another route could be a burn to order special edition. I'd pay a higher price for such a product to add to my collection.

[Simon]

But for the most part, crews are following the production around filming stuff anyway, so the added expense is already factored in.  Aside from the EPK fluff bits that get shovelled on to youtube and twitter, where does the rest of the footage go?

 

I believe I had heard Marc Forster had done a talk track for QoS so if this is already done, pop it out there, I'd say.

 

What about other large productions?  Do they churn out multi disk presentations?  For my part, I don't buy other large-production dvds so wouldn't know what their offerings are.

[New Digs]

I would add myself to the list that would like to see proper docs to these films. I would have thought new Steelbooks with added features would be very marketable. Here in the UK at least people are still buying films in a physical format; it's the reason why HMV survived it's recent troubles.
It would also make sense to reissue given the character of Mr White is returning in SPECTRE, so that's an added reason for people to look at the films again.
Still, I won't hold my breath. As mentioned there was nothing really new on the blu-ray set and there wasn't even the money to redo the remaining docs for HD.

[tdalton]

I doubt that we'll ever see a Quantum of Solace special edition.  Given the negative comments that Craig has made about the film, plus the over-the-top negativity the film has garnered from critics (who were never going to like it as much as Casino Royale) and a good portion of the public alike, I don't see EON putting the time, effort, and funds into such a project.

 

I could, however, see them issuing a Skyfall special edition.  That would be something made even more likely if Mendes is brought back for Bond 25, when they can package it as the "Mendes Trilogy".  

[Walecs]

I hope one day someone will make a special edition of Quantum of Solace where the awful title song is removed and replaced by either Bassey's No Good About Goodbye or the rejected theme "Forever". That's my only issue with the movie.

[MarkA]

To be fair Skyfall is pretty stacked as it is. Nearly an hour of behind the scenes and two commentaries. As for the QOS commentary it was definitely recorded. I heard from Marc Forster himself at a lecture at the BFI Southbank in 2009.

[Safari Suit]

In the UK most of the features on the Skyfall blu-ray aren't on the DVD, are they on the Region 1 Disc?

[Grard Bond]

In The Netherlands you could buy in one recordshop a special double dvd of QoS in a metalcase, which other shops didn't sell. It had more special features than the regular version. I have no idea how this was for other countries. I believe all special features were later put on the blu ray.

 

Is there a reason the commentary track is not on the QoS disc? Why was it recorded if it was never used?

Edited by Grard Bond, 05 March 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[tdalton]

 

Is there a reason the commentary track is not on the QoS disc? Why was it recorded if it was never used?

 

It was most likely going to be for a double-dip after the first release, but after a vocal segment of the population rejected the film, EON has pretty much distanced themselves from it and it's pretty unlikely we'll ever see another release of QOS, outside of being an obligatory inclusion in whatever new box sets they decide to release.

[larrythefatcat]

In the UK most of the features on the Skyfall blu-ray aren't on the DVD, are they on the Region 1 Disc?

 

I'm fairly certain that the majority of the special features are Blu-ray exclusive. It's come to the point where one has to buy the Blu-ray if one wants the bonus features for practically any film.

 

DVDs are more often becoming movie-only, especially when they're packed in with the Blu-ray.

 

 

Regarding all the potentially missing features from 'Skyfall' and (especially) 'Quantum of Solace': I think they should be released digitally for a few bucks. I don't use/like iTunes, but I'd consider picking up the QoS commentary and a meaty documentary or two via that platform.

 

Although I'm sure the commentary isn't just an hour and forty minutes of "I'm sorry" over and over, I want to hear Marc Forster's reasoning behind some of the "creative" decisions on Qos in his own words.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 06 March 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Simon]

I understand why a few of us (not me, btw) feels that QoS is not worthy of a double dip but at the end of the day, it is Bond, and QoS was successful.  Sticking a few extras on the DVD is going to be an exercise in profit.

 

And if the extras are on some form of sell thru, ie BluRay, when the rest of the world is telling us they are going digital, then I see even less of a reason to snub the DVD platform for extras...

 

Strange.

[Grard Bond]

I also never understood why there are no trailers on the DaD and CR dvd and blu ray discs. Even if you give CR the same menu as the other discs on blu ray.

[Safari Suit]

I agree that QOS is by no means unpopular enough to prevent a special edition DVD. Yes, it had some pretty vocal detractors among the public, but were there really any more than there were for Die Another Day, Licence to Kill, A View to a Kill etc. in their day, all of which have been released with a plethora of features more than once? For that matter does it really have a much less viable market than a once popular "but of its time" entry like Moonraker? Other franchises have seen entries with near unanimous low-point status (Star Trek V, Batman & Robin) get the special edition treatment at least once. In A-List franchises, and even B-List ones (Friday the 13th, Elm Street), there are no black sheep, only cash cows.

 

Well, unless you count Never Say Never Again...

[Turn]

If they could speak candidly about the challenges with the writers strike and all of that, then it would be even more of a reason to document it in an honest way. I think we're at a point the behind the scenes people  won't really find it necessary to dance around these points the way they did with LTK's documentary, for instance, in terms of not getting the type of artistic results or fan and critical reception they'd hoped.

 

As is mentioned, despite the fan reception QOS was successful at the box office and it could also make a great point of reference as to what Eon did to rectify things with SF. There's a great story there.

 

And NSNA also deserves serious documentation as it also has a fascinating backstory often more interesting than what's going on on the screen.

[Simon]

I am not sure Skyfall has any less fan critical opposition than QoS, to be honest.

 

And as for NSNA getting a documentary, yes this would be very interesting but I see this happening more in book form than as a DVD extra.  Perhaps Robert Sellers would find it an interesting addendum in light of his last book.

[tdalton]

 and it could also make a great point of reference as to what Eon did to rectify things with SF. There's a great story there.

 

 

All that would turn into is a documentary where EON and company simply going on and on about how the public hated QOS and how they moved heaven and earth to rectify all of those problems in SF.  Honestly, I wouldn't have any interest in watching that, as it would simply be about them praising how great SF is at the expense of QOS.  

 

For my money, QOS, despite what most fans and the public think and what EON seems to think about it, is a vastly superior film to SF, and to every Bond film released in the 1970s, 1990s, and the back half of the 1960s.

[Simon]

...QOS....is a vastly superior film to SF...

 

Me too.

[larrythefatcat]

Well, you definitely have the right to your opinion. I must admit that I agree with the vast majority of people in thinking that 'Skyfall' is superior in practically every way to 'Quantum of Solace'. I could go into detail, but that's not what this thread is about and I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind!

 

The opinion of the majority, I feel, is part of the reason why 'Quantum' never saw a special edition release like that of 'Casino Royale'. I would guess that, although it did well at the box office, it didn't sell anywhere near as well as CR in its "initial" (and now only) home media release version. I initially purchased the QoS 2-disc DVD with the very anemic special features that all ended up on the Blu-ray release, then I bought the Blu-ray release when I was starting to get Blu-ray discs and now I only have the Bond 50 Blu-ray set. The Bond 50 set has its shortcomings (apart from the pointless bonus disc) so I still have the 'Die Another Day' DVD and the Special Edition Blu-ray of 'Casino Royale' which were to two releases that had the most bonus features overlooked in the 'Bond 50' set.

 

As for the topic of recent DVD releases not containing the special features of most Blu-ray releases, I would imagine it has to do with a few factors:

 

The first factor, which I doubt is the actual primary reason the trends are changing, is that Blu-ray discs have a much larger capacity and can have their content still look very good even after taking up some of the disc capacity with extras. Looking back at the Special Edition Bond releases, the video quality is greatly handicapped by the low bitrate made necessary by including HOURS of special features on those discs. I was much more pleased with the Ultimate Edition release (even without taking into account the remastering work that was done) and I'm sure the majority of people were not that annoyed that viewing the special features required swapping discs. The marketplace has moved to any DVD release with significant extras having all of the bonus features on a separate disc; this has been the case since just before Blu-ray hit the marketplace. Pressing an extra disc means roughly twice the disc-pressing expense for the studio and it seems like something they'd avoid if they could.

 

The primary factor I would imagine as to why DVDs tend to quite often be "barebones" lately is that, either through consumer trends or the wishes of movie studios, physical media is slowly being killed, or at least maimed. The studios view DVD as being outdated (which it is, especially age-wise for a home media format) and tend to see it as a medium for people who merely want to see a film to be able to do so.

 

Digital distribution seems to be becoming a much more prevalent means of release due to its convenience and DVD seems to be viewed as a format for those who either have trouble with streaming technology or those unable/unwilling to have a decent, stable enough internet connection to download films. The fact that a lot of people like to buy DVDs to have a physical copy of something in their collection doesn't seem to factor into the sales model anymore.

 

Blu-ray, on the other hand, is currently the most advanced physical home video medium available and, like DVD and LaserDisc in the past, has become the primary distribution medium for the bonus features to be most easily "neatly" packed along with the film. Another element that MUST factor in is that Blu-ray is currently seen as *the* home video/collectible crossover product: just take a look at all of the ridiculously gimmicky Blu-ray sets that are released every few weeks! I must admit that I have been sucked into that idea: I own the Marvel Phase One set that comes in silly plastic briefcase and I've been known to be a sucker for a lenticular cover in the past!

 

I'm sure I'm going to be frustrated when 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray has all of the special features exclusively on its discs, but for now it's been made clear: like it or not, Blu-ray is the way to go when one wants extra features with one's movies!

[Simon]

Many thanks for this response.

 

I wasn't even aware that the 4K equivalent was called as such.  I feel for those who face moving their collections across again - if this is even a likelihood given the concurrent move to digital ownership.

 

But if people do move to digital and bypass the 4K UHD BR format, this might mean that extras, as an own-able set of features, might also be a thing of the past as I doubt anyone will buy multiple odds and sods as a separate entity...

[Turn]

Here's something that adds to the puzzling nature of why two high-profile Bond films can't get the extra special treatment when something of little apparent interest is getting a pretty nice presentation: The recent Mark Wahlberg film, The Gambler, is set for its DVD/Bluray release in April and contains what seems like a ton of extras including deleted and extended scenes, something we got with neither QoS or SF, and 5 featurettes including one on costume design.

 

That's almost royal treatment for a film that only made $33 million at the box office and had a 46 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes in an era when fewer and fewer such projects get anything near this. Nothing against the film, but I'm trying to figure out what could possibly merit a costume design featurette on a fairly low-budget modern day drama.

[New Digs]

Perhaps this is reverse psychology. Could it be the extras were added to sell the film for DVD, whereas blockbusters like QoS and CR will sell
enough in their own right as films without the need for an abundance of extras?

[Simon]

Well, the blockbusters would subscribe to the double dip marketing strategy.  Vanilla offering to sweep up the initial hysteria.  Extras to get the die-hard fans again.

 

Based on the Gambler's extra loaded offering, this makes it even more puzzling why these two films have not been double dipped as clearly, extras are still a DVD sell-thru consideration.

[Safari Suit]

I suspect The Gambler's features were prepared back when the studio thought it would be an Oscar contender

[Emrayfo]

I would love a future special edition of QoS to include deleted scenes, specifically the infamous alternate ending, but it seems that will never happen. I hope Craig and EON eventually change their minds regarding the virtues of QoS, or at least soften their views. Craig deserves to be able to look back on that film with some pride I think. QoS has its flaws but many other good attributes that more than make up for them in my opinion. I'm sure Marc Forster would leap at the chance to provide commentary if it ever came up.

[DaveBond21]

Good question. On the Skyfall DVD there is only 15 minutes of extras. Why not attach something like the Top Gear Bond cars special from 2012? Or even an update of Maryam DÁbo's "Bond girls are Forever". Or an interview with Roger Moore? Plus maybe the original Skyfall press conference?

 

This is in stark contrast to alot of DVDs of old 1970's movies where the DVD was made in say, 2003, and there are hours of extras, documentaries, interviews, new material, deleted scenes, etc.

 

The Blair Witch Project has an excellent 50-minute fake documentary among it's extras.

 

There is loads of stuff on my Amityville Horror DVD.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Grard Bond]

The Top Gear special is ofcourse owned by the BBC and not Eon and a lot of people already bought that one.

Please not another version of the superficially Bondgirls are forever, which is already on one of the dvds and blu rays.

Better put an old classic TV special on it, like "21 years of James Bond" etc.

[trevanian]

 

 and it could also make a great point of reference as to what Eon did to rectify things with SF. There's a great story there.

 

 

All that would turn into is a documentary where EON and company simply going on and on about how the public hated QOS and how they moved heaven and earth to rectify all of those problems in SF.  Honestly, I wouldn't have any interest in watching that, as it would simply be about them praising how great SF is at the expense of QOS.  

 

For my money, QOS, despite what most fans and the public think and what EON seems to think about it, is a vastly superior film to SF, and to every Bond film released in the 1970s, 1990s, and the back half of the 1960s.

 

Wow, except for certain blustery days when OHMSS really captures my mood, I agree with this last line 100% - and considering I practically flinch in physical pain from just seeing Craig closeup on screen, that is saying a lot.

 

Given how studios and Eon are probably as much about spin as content, I'm thinking the Forster commentary might be too candid for inclusion. There are precedents with this (the Criterion commentaries that got left off later editions for the early Connerys, a wholesale abandonment of the candid making of TMP doc for the STAR TREK 1's DVD debut, owing to Paramount feeling Katzenberg and company made them look bad and stupid, not that it is possible to make Paramount look good when examining the making of that picture in ANY light.)

 

I've interviewed Forster twice, once before QUANTUM's release, and once around the time of WWZ, and I'd say he had become more circumspect (though that may owe more to how messed up things had gotten on the latter.) Then again, his comments on QUANTUM sometimes don't reflect the final product either -- I was thinking somebody else had recut the movie when I saw it, as the ADD editing was practically the opposite from what I had been led to expect, not just from him but especially from his DP.) 

 

Part of me still wonders if, given a more lenient post schedule, Forster might have lengthened the film rather than tightening it. Cronenberg's first cut of VIDEODROME left out so much key info that supposedly audiences didn't even realize the main character ran a cable station until the last reel, so the preview allowed him to address storytelling issues (not all of them though, obviously.)

[clublos]

 

 

 and it could also make a great point of reference as to what Eon did to rectify things with SF. There's a great story there.

 

 

All that would turn into is a documentary where EON and company simply going on and on about how the public hated QOS and how they moved heaven and earth to rectify all of those problems in SF.  Honestly, I wouldn't have any interest in watching that, as it would simply be about them praising how great SF is at the expense of QOS.  

 

For my money, QOS, despite what most fans and the public think and what EON seems to think about it, is a vastly superior film to SF, and to every Bond film released in the 1970s, 1990s, and the back half of the 1960s.

 

Wow, except for certain blustery days when OHMSS really captures my mood, I agree with this last line 100% - and considering I practically flinch in physical pain from just seeing Craig closeup on screen, that is saying a lot.

 

Given how studios and Eon are probably as much about spin as content, I'm thinking the Forster commentary might be too candid for inclusion. There are precedents with this (the Criterion commentaries that got left off later editions for the early Connerys, a wholesale abandonment of the candid making of TMP doc for the STAR TREK 1's DVD debut, owing to Paramount feeling Katzenberg and company made them look bad and stupid, not that it is possible to make Paramount look good when examining the making of that picture in ANY light.)

 

I've interviewed Forster twice, once before QUANTUM's release, and once around the time of WWZ, and I'd say he had become more circumspect (though that may owe more to how messed up things had gotten on the latter.) Then again, his comments on QUANTUM sometimes don't reflect the final product either -- I was thinking somebody else had recut the movie when I saw it, as the ADD editing was practically the opposite from what I had been led to expect, not just from him but especially from his DP.) 

 

Part of me still wonders if, given a more lenient post schedule, Forster might have lengthened the film rather than tightening it. Cronenberg's first cut of VIDEODROME left out so much key info that supposedly audiences didn't even realize the main character ran a cable station until the last reel, so the preview allowed him to address storytelling issues (not all of them though, obviously.)

 

travanian,

 

It sounds like you have access to some rather interesting details regarding QOS. I'd especially be interested in reading your interviews with Forster, were your interviews published for online viewing?

 

Also, what/who led you to believe the editing of QOS would be less spastic? Was there possibly a rough cut that was more forgiving?

 

[trevanian]

clublos,

 

The QUANTUM interview (or at least most of it) is still up at: http://www.icgmagazi...e-marc-forster/

 

The Will Ferrell comment at the end suggests just how good Forster can be with actors, as I think STRANGER THAN FICTION is going to be Ferrell's gold standard in terms of credibility for the rest of his career.

 

My WTF? at the ADD cutting in QUANTUM arises out of his comment: MF: Cutting fast to make up for a lack of excitement in the action isn’t what either of us wanted.

 

I don't see a link to the WWZ one, which was part of the same magazine's annual all-interview issue, probably from July 2013. I did find a reference to the fact that I had been scheduled to cover WWZ for another magazine but that article was cancelled when Forster and the new vfx supe became unavailable. Then, magically, he was available again. Weird.

 

Regarding the editing ... there wasn't really time for a rough cut, given the incredibly truncated post schedule, which meant the cut had to be locked months ahead of time to allow for completion of the 900+ VFX shots (yes, 9 HUNDRED plus.How many can YOU identify?) So rather than having a loose assembly, they must have gone for getting it nailed right out of the gate. Personally, I just think that a couple more viewings would have caused a reverse kneejerk, and that they'd've backed off the overcutting (the intercut racing stuff up front after the PTS just feels like it has been too messed with, while the boat chase is almost incomprehensible even on frame-advance for me.) The Cronenberg example isn't the only time that filmmakers have expanded their cut after a preview -- GODFATHER 2 got something like 45 minutes put back in, a matter that was discussed in the old SUPER8Filmaker magazine in the late 70s.

 

The only huge misstep I recall pacing-wise in QUANTUM with respect to sluggishness is the whole intro to the villain while Bond peters around on his moped-looking thing ... there's something that feels like this was abandoned or somebody gave up trying to solve it, that maybe each of the two cutters was saying, "no, YOU deal with it" (speculation only on my part.)

 

I really do love the scene at the end in Russia ... I think there are a lot of emotional tones hit and hit well, shared between the Canadian, the QuantumStud and whatshisname. That's very meat&potatoes, nothing fancy visually, so I think QUANTUM shows Forster could handle both extremes, since TOSCA registers on the extreme other end with respect to stylization. Perhaps it is a matter of modulating these elements that turns a film into something really memorable, which probably makes the shorter post schedules an even more damning circumstance for films made these days, at least the ones aspiring to be more than just fluff.