8 replies to this topic

[iBond]

Since McClory had the rights to the SPECTRE and Blofeld name and since he was only involved with producing Thunderball (obviously as it was the story he worked on with Fleming) how were they able to continue using Blofeld and SPECTRE in three additional films? Did they pay him a large sum of money in order to allow them to use Blofeld in YOLT, OHMSS and DAF?

[Bond of Steele]

I believe they reached a deal where EON was able to continue to use it for 10 years, without McClory able to make any type of competitive movie.  They were actually planning to use Blofeld and Spectre again in TSWLM, but the 10 years was up.  You'll see a lot of similarities with how Stromberg operates in comparison to Blofeld.

[Professor Pi]

If memory serves, McClory had to agree not to make a competing Bond movie for ten years, during which EON could run with Blofeld and SPECTRE.  Hence, TSWLM having to change to Stromberg (they couldn't even kill off SPECTRE as the original script had) and FYEO not mentioning the wheelchair actor from the PTS in its credits.

[JCRendle]

On the literary side, Fleming never lost the rights, so he was able to use SPECTRE as much as he wanted, the film side of things were a difficult situation, and there were a lot of arguments between both EoN and McClory/his estate.
 
Thunderball started off as a film treatment in 1958, with the basic ideas put together with Fleming, McClory, Ernest Cuneo and Ivar Bryce with what would potentially be the first James Bond film.

 

There were many ideas thrown around - McClory was a big fan of underwater filming, hence the amount of underwater scenes - and several titles too (One of which was SPECTRE).

 

During the script work, Fleming had to travel to research information for a Sunday Times article and a non-fiction book Thrilling Cities (an interesting read if you can get your hands on it)

 

The script work carried on without him and McClory brought in Screenwriter Jack Whittingham to work on the script whilst Fleming was working on the other project. The screenplay they came up with was called Longitude 78 West and was closer to what we know as Thunderball, which Fleming changed the name to when he returned. Fleming also used the outline of the screenplay as the basis for the Thunderball novel.

 

Apparently McClory wasn't too happy that the screenplay that he had worked on with Fleming, Whittingham et al was going to be turned into a novel with credit going to Fleming - which is understandable - and he went to the high court to stop the novel being published through an injunction.

 

The injunction wasn't awarded but it was stipulated that McClory could go back to the courts at a later date. As Fleming was very ill at the time, they agreed to settle out of court - Fleming owning the rights to the novel and McClory owning the rights to film - The novel had to acknowledge that it was based on McClory, Whittingham and Fleming's script.

 

I believe Fleming died that same year.

 

---

 

One of the main arguments was who came up with SPECTRE - Fleming or McClory - both parties claimed that the organisation came from them. 

 

When EoN wanted to make Thunderball as the 4th Bond film, they had to go to McClory who owned the rights and would be credited as a producer. Part of the agreement was that McClory would, after 10 years, be allowed to make his own version of Thunderball and EoN would be able to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in the 10 years following. 

 

The 10 year time period ran out before EoN had a chance to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in The Spy who Loved Me and they had to use Stromberg.

 

McClory used his rights to remake Thunderball as Never Say Never Again - from a quote from Sean Connery saying he would "never again" play James Bond.

 

McClory wanted to remake Thunderball again in the late 1990s as "Warhead 2000 AD", but MGM went to court against McClory and Sony, who were going to co-produce the film, and successfully halted the production.

 

EoN managed to get the rights back from McClory's estate last year after McClory;s death, hence SPECTRE as the 24th Bond film.

 

Right, my fingers need a rest now - hope this went some way to answering your question...

[iBond]

On the literary side, Fleming never lost the rights, so he was able to use SPECTRE as much as he wanted, the film side of things were a difficult situation, and there were a lot of arguments between both EoN and McClory/his estate.
 
Thunderball started off as a film treatment in 1958, with the basic ideas put together with Fleming, McClory, Ernest Cuneo and Ivar Bryce with what would potentially be the first James Bond film.

 

There were many ideas thrown around - McClory was a big fan of underwater filming, hence the amount of underwater scenes - and several titles too (One of which was SPECTRE).

 

During the script work, Fleming had to travel to research information for a Sunday Times article and a non-fiction book Thrilling Cities (an interesting read if you can get your hands on it)

 

The script work carried on without him and McClory brought in Screenwriter Jack Whittingham to work on the script whilst Fleming was working on the other project. The screenplay they came up with was called Longitude 78 West and was closer to what we know as Thunderball, which Fleming changed the name to when he returned. Fleming also used the outline of the screenplay as the basis for the Thunderball novel.

 

Apparently McClory wasn't too happy that the screenplay that he had worked on with Fleming, Whittingham et al was going to be turned into a novel with credit going to Fleming - which is understandable - and he went to the high court to stop the novel being published through an injunction.

 

The injunction wasn't awarded but it was stipulated that McClory could go back to the courts at a later date. As Fleming was very ill at the time, they agreed to settle out of court - Fleming owning the rights to the novel and McClory owning the rights to film - The novel had to acknowledge that it was based on McClory, Whittingham and Fleming's script.

 

I believe Fleming died that same year.

 

---

 

One of the main arguments was who came up with SPECTRE - Fleming or McClory - both parties claimed that the organisation came from them. 

 

When EoN wanted to make Thunderball as the 4th Bond film, they had to go to McClory who owned the rights and would be credited as a producer. Part of the agreement was that McClory would, after 10 years, be allowed to make his own version of Thunderball and EoN would be able to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in the 10 years following. 

 

The 10 year time period ran out before EoN had a chance to use SPECTRE and Blofeld in The Spy who Loved Me and they had to use Stromberg.

 

McClory used his rights to remake Thunderball as Never Say Never Again - from a quote from Sean Connery saying he would "never again" play James Bond.

 

McClory wanted to remake Thunderball again in the late 1990s as "Warhead 2000 AD", but MGM went to court against McClory and Sony, who were going to co-produce the film, and successfully halted the production.

 

EoN managed to get the rights back from McClory's estate last year after McClory;s death, hence SPECTRE as the 24th Bond film.

 

Right, my fingers need a rest now - hope this went some way to answering your question...

 

Thanks so much! This really gave me a whole new insight in the situation. Thank you for taking the time to reply!

[Simon]

....................... and FYEO not mentioning the wheelchair actor from the PTS in its credits.

 

Nor indeed the character he was playing.

[SamNeillIsNotBond]

 

....................... and FYEO not mentioning the wheelchair actor from the PTS in its credits.

 

Nor indeed the character he was playing.

 

Nor what exactly "A delicatessen in stainless steel!" means. 

[Guy Haines]

Probably the best source about the whole history of SPECTRE, from its origins in the screen treatments written by Ian Fleming, Jack Whittingham and Kevin McClory, all the way through to the court case which finally settled the rights business in the early 2000s is "The Battle For Bond" by Robert Sellers. It is a very interesting and comprehensive account of what happened - the early screenplays for "James Bond Of The Secret Service" (before Thunderball had been written, before any Eon Bonds films had been contemplated), the novel, the law case about the novel in 1963, the making of the film Thunderball, the various McClory Bond projects that never happened, and the making of Never Say Never Again.

 

And the ten year agreement from 1965 and Thunderball which meant that Eon could continue using Blofeld and SPECTRE.

 

There are excerpts from the early screen treatments included, one of which, and I'm not making this up, begins with former US President Harry S Truman on screen warning the audience of the dangers of atomic weapons. (And given he was the one who approved the use of them at the end of WW II, he'd know!)

 

I'd suggest to any Bond fan - read the book. Incidentally, it was pulled from the shelves initially because of a problem with certain items included. A while later it was republished. I was lucky enough to get one of the editions published before it was temporarily withdrawn.

[FlemingBond]

i wonder at the time if he was concerned with the specifics of SPECTRE and Blofeld or just Thunderball as a movie. They'd already used them in FRWL, and mentioned SPECTRE in Dr. No. Plus they originally were going to do OHMSS(which included Blofeld) after Goldfinger because they weren't going to be able to use Thunderball. It seems like later in the 70s he got into the whole thing of them not being able to use anything that was in Thunderball including SPECTRE and Blofeld.

Much later on he got rediculous claiming he was responsible for the whole series.