28 replies to this topic

[iexpectu2die]

I've been thinking lately, it looks as though we may never see the Quantum storyline neatly tied up. Daniel Craig has said in interviews that the story has been told, but I'm not convinced - it seems more likely that they were keen to move on after QoS. But would Skyfall have needed to change THAT much to wrap up the Quantum story? Silva left MI6 and formed his own organisation after being released (or escaped, can't remember) by the Chinese. Anything else? It seems to me it would have taken just a couple of extra lines of dialogue. To me, it would have turned the first three Craig films into a triumphant trilogy, with Skyfall as the brilliant final act. This would also serve to legitimise QoS as a 'connecting' film - I've always thought that it feels like one. What do you guys think? 

[Vauxhall]

I'd say that Silva was conceived as a largely isolated operator, albeit with some very faithful followers and henchmen. His character could clearly have been adapted to present him as the figurehead of a shady network (Quantum), but I think I preferred him as the unhinged yet smart individual, driven by his idea of revenge.

[AdaShelby]

If the filmmakers really want to put an end to the Quantum organisation, all they really need are a few lines of dialogue to explain why and how. It's not hard. 

[Mr_Wint]

I don't think this change would make QOS look any better.

 

I still think it was a huge mistake to not establish Mr. White as the head of Quantum - have Mr White as the lead antagonist and finish him and the organisation completely in QOS.

 

Mr. White is the man behind Bond's first 00-mission, he is the man who killed Le Chiffre, saved Bond's Life, and is responsible for the death of his first love and was worthy of the first "Bond, James Bond" introduction. Is the man who was captured by Bond, but escaped and nearly killed M in the process. Now, with that kind of drama and tension already established between two characters, how on earth can the screenwriters be so stupid and introduce a new main villain? Probably because EON wanted someone younger, who could have a fist-fight with Bond.

[AMC Hornet]

It would only take a line in B24 to establish that Silva was a Quantum asset.

 

With his abilities and connections, how could he not be?

[Double Naught spy]

For me, the biggest problem with Quantum is that, after the organization was hyped-up as an ultra-mysterious cabal in CR and in the opening of QOS, it quickly devolved into a lame-ass organization with diminutive men flanked by equally lame henchmen (Elvis? really?!?) that are in bed with a stereotypical third-world, Latin America general (no racism there!) bent creating a monopoly on the fresh water supply. Yawn.  

 

(Reminds me of those halcyon days of the first seasons of X-Files . . . before we all figured out that Chris Carter was just making up the mythology as he went along and had absolutely no overall master plan for explaining Fox Mulder's sister's abduction, the Cigarette-Smoking Man, the oil-slick aliens vs. the grey aliens, etc.)  

 

And to make matters worse, the powers-that-be squandered a perfectly good opportunity to incorporate into the plot that the whole environmental 'crisis' that Quantum, and Al Gore (umm. . . I mean, Dominic Green) were capitalizing on was just gigantic scam perpetrated on the world population in an effort to line their own pockets (What?  You don't think that is happening right now as you read this post?) with the profits of things like carbon taxes and such.   

 

Agree or disagree if you must on whether or not global warming, climate change, et al are real occurrences (and, more to the point, are 'man-made') -  but you have to admit that 007 uncovering such a world-wide scam would have been far more 'Bond-worthy' than a ho-hum plot to control some water rights.  Be honest - when you first learned of the shadowy Quantum in CR, did you really think their 'big scheme' would revolve around controlling a freakin' public utility?

 

So, I'm extremely grateful that Silva was never associated with the colossal misfire that Quantum turned out to be.  Or, to be more blunt - thank goodness such a deliciously-evil villain such as Silva isn't sullied by an association with an organization whose central figures are an old man who looks like George Clooney's butler on Lake Como and an ineffectual  midget with a bodyguard who tries his best to resemble Quentin Tarantino on his dorkiest day! 

Edited by Double Naught spy, 14 October 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Trevelyan 006]

I'm not sure Silva was the type to work with an organization. It definitely came off to me that he acted alone, only to serve himself and his own purposes. As brilliant as Silva was, he was motivated by revenge, not his duty (so to speak)! With that said, he was definitely not the man I picture running Quantum.

 

That man hides in broad daylight... I picture a bureaucrat somewhere, who operates under the radar and answers to no one. No personal agenda, strictly (dirty) business.

[Guy Haines]

Silva might have been a lone operator but who is to say Quantum wasn't behind him? If indirectly. His projects up until the events in SF are the kind Quantum might have backed, financially - election rigging, manipulating stock markets and so on. And then there's his deranged fixation with M. Silva would be the perfect weapon for Quantum to strike back against MI6 for the two projects destroyed by Bond.

 

(Actually if Quantum was looking for revenge it might have targeted Bond himself, but that would have been too much like the plot of FRWL.)

 

If the Quantum story arc continues in Bond 24 it wouldn't surprise me if Bond is told, if only in passing, that Silva had connections to the organisation. As for QoS as a "linking" movie in a trilogy, that is what it came across as to me, as well as seeming like CR Part II at times. The link was broken because of the delays in filming Bond 23 and I suppose a decision to make what became SF a standalone. (Marc Forster's decision to change the end of QoS and drop the confrontation between Bond and Mr White - and, er "Guy Haines"! - made that easier for his successor.)

 

It's a pity, because it leaves the question of what happened to Quantum hanging in the air and by the time we get to autumn 2015 and Bond 24 it probably won't matter to general film goers and Bond fans alike. My guess is that assuming 24 isn't another standalone, we'll get the return of Quantum....... or its replacement by something else Ian Fleming invented decades ago.

[seawolfnyy]

I'm also thinking Quantum is dead. As for going for lame plots like monopolizing a country's water, didn't most of the members at the Tosca meeting actually feel that the "tierra project" was in fact a giant waste of Quantum's time? It was just Greene, who is arguably the series' weakest main villain. Climate change is a very real thing and manipulating it would be a very good plot device for a Bond film, it was just squandered in QoS.

 

As for Silva's involvement with Quantum, it's possible, but I think unlikely. More likely, he was just a rogue asset that hid in seclusion for years until implementing his plan against M. Silva doesn't seem to fit the mold of the Quantum members. He's too unhinged and doesn't take orders. If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that no, Silva was not a member of Quantum.

[willdj]

considering there are real companies buying up water supplies for their own money making purposes - it was actually not that stupid or lame a plot- it could admittedly have been taken a little further but they were keeping it a very grounded movie

Edited by willdj, 14 October 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[tdalton]

considering there are real companies buying up water supplies for their own money making purposes - it was actually not that stupid or lame a plot- it could admittedly have been taken a little further but they were keeping it a very grounded movie

 

Agreed.  It's certainly not a lame plot.  It's really a more sinister villainous scheme than a lot of the schemes that we see in the Bond films, especially when considering how callously it's carried out by Greene and Medrano. 

[007jamesbond]

Silva could have been offered by Quantum to join as a high ranking member but he probably turn it down 

[Guy Haines]

The Quantum water plot in Bolivia - well I read only the other day that the real President of that country is heading for election victory and one of his policies is strong opposition to exorbitant charges for water in Bolivia. QoS's story and its plot of a Quantum inspired coup to gain control of water in Bolivia may have been fiction, but it seems to have a basis in real life.

[DaveBond21]

I'm not sure Silva was the type to work with an organization. It definitely came off to me that he acted alone, only to serve himself and his own purposes. As brilliant as Silva was, he was motivated by revenge, not his duty (so to speak)! With that said, he was definitely not the man I picture running Quantum.

 

That man hides in broad daylight... I picture a bureaucrat somewhere, who operates under the radar and answers to no one. No personal agenda, strictly (dirty) business.

 

Interesting point - someone who say. lost their position of power at the 2010 UK General Election and later disappeared back in the shadows.

 

_____________

[Guy Haines]

 

I'm not sure Silva was the type to work with an organization. It definitely came off to me that he acted alone, only to serve himself and his own purposes. As brilliant as Silva was, he was motivated by revenge, not his duty (so to speak)! With that said, he was definitely not the man I picture running Quantum.

 

That man hides in broad daylight... I picture a bureaucrat somewhere, who operates under the radar and answers to no one. No personal agenda, strictly (dirty) business.

 

Interesting point - someone who say. lost their position of power at the 2010 UK General Election and later disappeared back in the shadows.

 

_____________

 

Which I think is what they were getting at in the film. The Quantum people in the opera house - all apparently respectable but low key. Bond hadn't heard of Haines, for example, yet he is considered a powerful if shadowy individual.

 

The problem for Quantum after the opera house incident was that their high echelon people were hopelessly blown. 

 

Getting back to the actual thread topic, Silva could have been backed by Quantum, perhaps without even realising it - money from "mysterious sources" and so on - but a Quantum member or leader? No, I don't think so. As others here have pointed out he was brilliant but unstable, just as Le Chiffre turned out to be brilliant but untrustworthy. Had he been on Quantum's books - and had he not been involved in his personal plot to kill M - then my guess is at some point Mr. White would have had to call 'round and do unto Silva what he did to Le Chiffre.

[Iceskater101]

That's a really interesting point you bring up there.. I never really considered that when I was watching Skyfall but that does make sense. I have always considered Silva to be on his own or backed by someone who hated MI6 as much as he did. I think that Silva wasn't acting under Quantum and after Quantum of Solace I just assumed that the members were arrested or that the organization itself was broken apart or in hiding,

[Call Billy Bob]

"In hiding" you say...

 

"He lets the other two fight while he waits... waits until the survivor is so exhausted that he cannot defend himself. And then, like SPECTRE... he strikes!"

 

 

 

But back to point, Silva was too much of a loose canon. Quantum could have been aiding him financially, but he was never involved with them directly, imo.

[Iceskater101]

Well I just mean after the whole exposure thing at that opera house where Bond captured all of their pictures.. maybe there were other members at the opera house and they went into hiding? Like they are terrorists but they are living secretly

 

Lol I don't know..

[Call Billy Bob]

I know what you meant, I was just once again hoping for a future Quantum/SPECTRE connection

[Guy Haines]

I think Quantum becoming SPECTRE is still possible. In the novel Thunderball we're told that Blofeld set up several syndicates before founding the one he was infamous for. In this new film era for Bond I could easily see a future scenario in which the remnants of Quantum, together with rogue elements from the worlds of high finance, intelligence agencies, and out and out terrorists form a new organisation under a single leader. And it would have to have a new name, Dominic Greene having told all about Quantum before meeting a fate worse than death in the Bolivian desert.

 

Then again, Bond 24 could be another standalone rather than part of a story arc - or continue belatedly the arc begun with CR and continued with QoS. We'll know by this time next year, I dare say!

 

(There's one other reason I considered, just before I saw SF but knowing from the pre film publicity that it involved someone out to get M - Quantum could have been using Silva to eliminate M and put their own man in her place. "We have people everywhere" claimed Mr White. But after seeing SF my idea  didn't fit - Mallory saved M's life when all hell broke loose in the enquiry. One can take conspiracy theories a bit too far, you know!)

[Call Billy Bob]

I suspected Mallory wasn't all he seemed to be too. Granted, he is Voldemort

[Guy Haines]

Hi Call Billy Bob,

 

I must admit when the speculation was rife about Ralph Fiennes role on SF, and some on this site wondered if he would be playing a villain, that the idea occurred to me that (1. he might be the new M but that (2. he might be working for the other side - all because of this "we have people everywhere" stuff from QoS.

 

Of course, I don't think so now - SF was in small part about re-introducing characters (Moneypenny, Q, a male M) and a storyline which would also in part provide an exit, and a controversial one, for the incumbent M, Dame Judi Dench. We've had Bond save the world countless times, but never a story where the villain's sole motivation is to kill Bond's boss (Unless you count TWINE, but there the villain's main project is to corner the oil market - wanting her dear old dad and M out of the way was just part of the plan.)

 

True, he is Voldemort, amongst other roles, but this stuff about being "unused to field work" at the end of SF is nonsense. He was in the "Hereford Regiment" and I can think of only one regiment based in the English town of Hereford - the SAS.

[FlemingBond]

well since they questioned Vesper's boyfriend, and Mr. Green i guess we will have to assume they caught a lot of the Quantum players, not to mention Bond already photographed a few of them earlier in QOS.

[Walecs]

(There's one other reason I considered, just before I saw SF but knowing from the pre film publicity that it involved someone out to get M - Quantum could have been using Silva to eliminate M and put their own man in her place. "We have people everywhere" claimed Mr White. But after seeing SF my idea  didn't fit - Mallory saved M's life when all hell broke loose in the enquiry. One can take conspiracy theories a bit too far, you know!)

 

It actually sounds like an awesome idea. Roger Hollis, Director General of MI5 in the '50s/'60s, was suspected of being a mole working for KGB, thus having Mallory as a spy working for Quantum would have been really interesting.

 

Anyway, I like the idea that Silva might have been indirectly working for Quantum without even knowing, it's a storyline that I hope they for Bond 24, but I know it'd be too good to be true.

Edited by Walecs, 18 October 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Hansen]

Correct me if I am wrong but Eon (unfortunately) never worked its script with a back-to-back perspective.

The above-interpretation of Skyfall are interesting but in regards with the inner flaws of the script, searching any 'planting' is clearly overestimating the writers

[Guy Haines]

The idea of "M" as being not on the side of the angels that I considered, which Walecs has commented on - the Roger Hollis case was what I had in mind. Then you have the likes of Philby, Burgess, Maclean, Blunt and so on. That a very senior British Intelligence official might be working against British interests might be shocking in the fictional world of Bond - and when I offered the scenario pre Skyfall I know some contributors to the forums weren't exactly supportive  - but sadly it was not uncommon in real life.

 

Ralph Fiennes will now be established as M and I hope he goes on in the role for years. But when he leaves and is replaced, maybe a one off "interim" intelligence chief might take over in a future film, and at the end this person is revealed by Bond to be a traitor? Not the main villain, but secretly in league? Or, better still perhaps, M, played by Fiennes or whoever, is framed for something and enlists Bond to help prove his innocence, and the person who replaces him is in fact in league with the villains?

[Iceskater101]

I suspected Mallory wasn't all he seemed to be too. Granted, he is Voldemort

 

I love that Ralph Fiennes is apart of my two favorite franchises ever.

[agentbug]

Trilogy has become a dirty word over the last few years IMO, and I don't see a series as lengthy as the Bond series a place for anything approaching a trilogy. Yes, it would have been nice to see things tied up but they had a whole film to do that with in QoS and the script was poor, so chance blown. I think they did the right thing moving on.

Also, part of the reason Skyfall works is the undercurrents between Bond and Silva as brothers, being fellow MI6 agents. Make Silva head of Quantum and he and his relationship with Bond becomes instantly less interesting.

[sharpshooter]

I'd say that Silva was conceived as a largely isolated operator, albeit with some very faithful followers and henchmen. His character could clearly have been adapted to present him as the figurehead of a shady network (Quantum), but I think I preferred him as the unhinged yet smart individual, driven by his idea of revenge.

I agree. I think he is a mirror to both Bond and Q and works better that way. The bitter agent who has turned to technology, given he mentions how exhausting running around is. Silva operated alone for quite some time it seems, based on his conversation about rigging elections and manipulating stocks. But his end game was with M. He wanted to kill her and himself but struggled to do so when the opportunity presented itself.