16 replies to this topic

[ChickenStu]

After reading and greatly enjoying Fleming's originals last year I didn't really want it to end so I thought I'd check out some of the continuations. This year I read Markham's, Pearson's, the two Woods and all the Gardners and am currently into the Bensons. I've decided that I'm into this now and want to read every Bond novel ever published. 

 

What I've read so far has been pretty hit and miss and nowhere near up to the standard of Fleming - but I still feel the endeavor is worth it. 

My Mum however disagrees.

 

Like me my Mum is a huge avid reader - and when she was a girl she read all the original Fleming books and got them on the day they were published (she actually has some early editions which she's said I can keep should I stumble across them in an old attic somewhere).

 

However - she has absolutely NO interest in the continuations. She thinks the books should have died with Fleming and for other authors to write books about Our Man is disrespectful, sacrilegious, cynical - and only to make money - and tells me she doesn't know why I'm wasting my time with them.

 

I've told her that sometimes if something becomes so popular and strikes a chord with audiences - then it ceases to belong to the author and starts to belong to it's audience. It takes on a life of it's own so to speak. Fleming surely would have written more had he not died. The Fleming estate authorizes these books. There's certainly an audience out there for them - and not only that - it's a good opportunity for authors. I personally think Fleming would be flattered if books and films of his creation were STILL being created and eaten up by audiences well over FIFTY years after it all started, 

 

And there you have two valid arguments for and against from two different generations of Bond readers. 

 

I personally don't really see the harm in James Bond books carrying on with different authors. I mean, why not right?

 

How do you guys feel?

[Jim]

Listen to your mother.

[saint mark]

The Flemings are indeed easily the best, but then I do like to read thrillers and detectives from before the sixties whenever I can pick one up at a 2nd hand place.

 

When I discovered the Flemings I was somewhat warped by the Markham  [Kingsly Amis] and two Wood novelizations (had just discovered MR the movie) in this pre-internet age, but I have always rated them as good books and until this day I find it a sad thing that we never had an original C. Wood book about 007 as he did come so close to the taste and style of the original Flemings.

 

My dad being a internationa; sailor came home with the Gardners as he knew I liked this 007 chap, so in a sense I grew up with the Gardner books as they appeared. And gradually their level of quality went downhill. I never got to the last three novels until very much later.

 

When I had more time and money I found out about Benson and through Ebay bought all of his output in HC for a bargain basement price and was entertained by them.

 

The recent celebrity trilogy I have bought and while the first one with the Iran background reminded me ,because of that setting, a lot of the 1st Doctor Jason Love. I disliked the tennis match as it reeked of copying the Fleming game and match descriptions but it lacked the umpf Fleming added. (Heck after GF I wanted to go out and learn golf).

 

Then came Deavers novel, being a big fan of his writing I had to buy it and am still not sure what he aimed at and it felt more like a Deaver book than a 007 novel.

 

Solo started so well and then lost the plot for me, essentially making 007 a message boy for the British empire and making his involvement highly dubious and making me think that that Boyd wanted to revenge the acts of the British colonization by making 007 the butt of his book.

 

I enjoyed the Higson books and the Moneypenny diaries they were actually quite good.

 

All in all I would say there is continuation work that is really excellent and then there are attempts that seem to fail badly. I found Bensons attempts more enjoyable than the last three books.

 

But at the end of the day I am perhaps a gluton for punishment and will buy the next one as well.

 

As I am waiting for the next Saint novel as well. 

[billy007]

You should always consider John Pearson's "James Bond An Authorized Biography" a continuation novel.
It really is quite good. I've stated before Pearson should have wriiten more.

[Guy Haines]

I agree with billy007 about John Pearson's book. A good writer, knows his Fleming (He ought to do, having written a biography of the man!) and he came up with a well written biography of Bond which fills in the gaps, and provides an amusing "explanation" of why Ian Fleming wrote the Bond books - or rather, was allowed to by British Intelligence.

 

And it is a shame he didn't write a Bond novel of his own.

 

As for the other continuation novels - I think Kingsley Amis, John Gardner and Raymond Benson tried, and succeeded in continuing the Bond character, even if it wasn't always as Fleming might have written it. Amis, and Christopher Wood in his two "book of the film" novels for TSWLM and MR probably came closest to Fleming's style. The more recent continuation novels, whilst good, reflect more the style of the particular author, however much he tries to put himself in Ian Fleming's place. Jeffrey Deaver's novel has been quoted above. Of the three I probably enjoyed it the most - but it does seem at times like a Deaver novel with James Bond as the protagonist rather than a James Bond adventure written by Deaver, and there is a difference, imho.

 

I think that's really the object of the recent continuation exercise - to see how well known authors tackle Bond as much as keeping Bond going on. I believe something similar was proposed in the first few years  after Ian Fleming's death, with various authors writing as "Robert Markham". Which is fine - but the results, even with upper bracket writers - perhaps especially with them - are going to be mixed from the standpoint of a fan of the original novels.

[FlemingBond]

i love the Fleming books, but i've never read a continuation novel.

[ChickenStu]

Wow- seems opinion on this subject in general is fairly mixed here. 

[glidrose]

Yeah to Amis, Pearson, Wood, Higson

Meh to Faulks & Boyd

Nay to Gardner, Benson and Deaver

 

I'm probably being a bit harsh to Gardner, but by and large his run was a misfire. Most people - including IFP chairman Peter Janson-Smith - think JG wrote too many of them. I may have rated him a "meh" if he had stopped after the fifth book.

 

I couldn't get into Weinberg, but what little of her work I've read would also probably rate as a "nay".

 

Hey ChickenStu, if you get a chance, read the Harvard Lampoon parody Alligator. It's available online and definitely worth a read. It reeks of Fleming, and in a good way. A good chunk of it reads like a Fleming novel.

[Dustin]

This raises an interesting question. What are people looking for in a continuation?
The Fleming style ("Fleming-sweep"), the particular mix of sex and snobbism, the specific brand of suspense that comes with '007'?

Personally I don't expect to find Fleming's style, that's stuff for pastiche and too easily turns into unintentional comedy/satire. What I hope to find when picking up a continuation is primarily Bond, ideally in an interesting situation. That need not be a thriller necessarily. Or connected to the Cold War folklore. What I'd hope for would be an interesting story, atmosphere and sense of time and place, ideally also using interesting side characters and a worthy adversary.

Other ingredients would be physical exertion, a just cause, a trusty ally. In short, what Bond mused himself in DOCTOR NO. But I don't need them to be entertained by a continuation. I could imagine a book entirely without those, maybe a book depicting Bond's travels for 400 to 500 pages. Or a book showing an ageing Bond married to a too-young and unfaithful party girl. Or Bond and Fleming meeting atop a Swiss sanatorium while WW III breaks out. There are countless possibilities off the beaten path of pts-briefing-action-sex and the somewhat tiring trinity of Bond-car, Bond-watch and Bond-gun.

I think it's a shame that none of this was tackled up to now. The most daring Bond author, the one who was open to a number of experiments, was Fleming himself. Those that came after him in my opinion - for the most part - dared too little.

Edited by Dustin, 23 June 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[tdalton]

I'd be more on board with the continuation novels as a whole (there are some that I do like quite a bit) if they would stop doing two things.  First, they should stop trying to be Fleming.  As already said, it just turns to pastiche when you try to do what someone else has done.  The second, they should stop trying to be like the films.  Do something original with Bond.  Tell an interesting story with him that doesn't hit the exact same beats over and over and doesn't shoe-horn in characters like Felix Leiter or Rene Mathis just for the sake of having them there and, for that matter, for the sake of satisfying the never-ending checklist that the authors seem to want to work from.

[sharpshooter]

Devil May Care, Carte Blanche and Solo have been rather dull entries. I think the first half of Solo, before he jets of to Zanzarim, is excellent. Fun, Bond-y stuff. But then it falls away and I didn't care. For me, Charlie Higson is the best continuation author. Five good books and each with a different but familiar flavour.

[glidrose]

Higson has been the most experimental of the continuation authors for a simple reason: he got to create his own world. So too did Fleming. This is something none of the other authors have done (or could do). Well, maybe Pearson is a possible exception. Again, a metafiction where he can pretty much create a new world.

Of course Gardner got to be experimental, but IMHO, often in the wrong way with awkward, misguided results.

Dustin's post above raises an interesting question. Is it even possible to experiment any more? I'm not sure it is. The readership wants a Bond novel, not a Bond experiment. Only a very select minority of readers want something truly off the beaten path.

Perhaps this is where the often-mooted idea of a short story & novella collection by different authors comes into play. In the shorter form one can and should experiment. One should also remember that Fleming's Bond novels are among the shortest books in the series. Wood kept the word count down.

Time for some word count trivia!

Fleming's were between 50,000 (either TSWLM or TMWTGG) and 84,000 words (GF)

CS (Amis) around 73,000 words
JB,TSWLM (Wood) around 64,000 words
JBAMR (Wood) around 66,000 words
LR (Gardner) around 84,000 words
IB (Gardner) around 76,000 words

Wonder what the word count is on Boyd's Solo. Didn't he initially say it'd be the longest Bond novel of them all?

[jamie00007]

I really dont like the whole idea of "continuation" novels with other authors continuing someone elses work, Fleming or otherwise. Im fine with reboots, which is why I was so excited that Carte Blanche could have kicked off a whole new modern novel series. Sadly they've reverted to the continuation novels.

[tdalton]

I'd be OK if they rebooted the literary Bond, but it would have to be something different from what they did with Carte Blanche.  If they were to go that route, they should take a Bond that is similar to the original character and just have him start out his Double-oh career in the present day.  

[SecretAgentFan]

I would also like them to tie the literary Bond directly into the current Craig era, telling stories that happened between QOS and SF.

[tdalton]

That could be an interesting idea, and really could have been something that EON could have done in lieu of a novelization for Skyfall back in 2012.  

[ChickenStu]

Well... I think trying to tie continuity together is a fruitless exercise and we should just take each individual entry (book, film, game whatever) as it is. The last big attempt to tie continuities together was the videogame 007 Legends and we all know how well that turned out.