10 replies to this topic

[JSDude1]

What are your opinions?..

 

I am currently watching Octopussy, and believe that Bob Brown's M is actually a promotion of Admiral Hargreaves from The Spy Who Loved Me, not actually the same fictional character as Bernard Lee's M.

 

Curious what everyone else thinks or the reigning theory around here..?

 

 

[Guy Haines]

I think it's Admiral Hargreaves. Robert Brown did a good job as M, but his characterisation wasn't exactly the same as Bernard Lee. At the time I didn't think about whether this M was the same person as the previous one, because we'd got used to one actor followed by another playing James Bond - and numerous actors playing the likes of Leiter or Blofeld - that it seemed quite possible that the same "M" could be played be more than one actor.

 

But the casting of Judi Dench changed that, for obvious reasons. (Indeed it would appear that Dame Judi, by appearing in the Brosnan and Craig Bond films, was playing two different people who happened to be "M" - the names Dame Barbara Mawdsley and Olivia Mansfield have been bandied about.) And now for Bond 24 we very definitely have a different man in charge as M, former SAS Colonel Gareth Mallory - and I think that having an ex-special forces officer as Bond's new superior is quite a smart move.

 

So now, I think of Robert Brown's M as Admiral Hargreaves, late of the RN, where I think he was in charge of the submarine force, then head of MI6.

 

One point which the Craig films corrected regarding M's superior. For years it appeared that M was answerable to the Minister of Defence. In Quantum Of Solace, M was called in to report by the Foreign Secretary - which is how it would be in real life. And having cleared that minor point up - and in spite of the weather 'round here - I really must get out of the house more often!

[AirJordanFan93]

I am under the impression it is Admiral Hargreaves after being promoted or at least thats the way I like to think about it

[oatesy]

The problem with the theory that he is still Admiral Hargreaves is that Hargreaves has the insignia of a Vice Admiral in TSWLM. M's insignia in The Living Daylights is that of a Rear Admiral, which would indicate demotion. Bernard Lee's M in YOLT has the insignia of a Rear Admiral, suggesting that Robert Brown may be Sir Miles Messervy or yet another unnamed Admiral of lower rank than Hargreaves

 

Its just a movie though

[AMC Hornet]

There is already a thread for this topic, with the same pro-con arguments.

[Binyamin]

As I side note, I always enjoyed the short exchange between Roger Moore's Bond and Admiral Hargreaves when they meet.

Hargreaves looks at him for a few seconds, and has a moment of recollection.

"Ark Royal, wasn't it?"
For a split second, Bond seems genuinely impressed that his superior remembers the aircraft carrier he used to serve aboard.
"Yes sir."

A well-acted moment by Moore and Brown. A momentary show of mutual respect among Naval officers.
The line has no real reason to be there, it has nothing to do with the plot, but it makes the two characters seem that much more genuine.

[Guy Haines]

Which suggests that, unless he was HMS Ark Royal's intelligence officer or in some other non flying post, Bond was there as a carrier jet aviator. Ah, there's no end to this man's talents!

[Gothamite]

Given that the timeline is always sliding and changing, and if we even have to care about continuity, I always hold onto the belief that continuity is only limited to the actor playing Bond at the time. Basically this means Bob Brown is Admiral Hargreaves in the Moore movies and can be Messervy in the Dalton films (given his rank in TLD and his increased crustiness).

[Leo R.]

The problem with the theory that he is still Admiral Hargreaves is that Hargreaves has the insignia of a Vice Admiral in TSWLM. M's insignia in The Living Daylights is that of a Rear Admiral, which would indicate demotion. Bernard Lee's M in YOLT has the insignia of a Rear Admiral, suggesting that Robert Brown may be Sir Miles Messervy or yet another unnamed Admiral of lower rank than Hargreaves

 

Its just a movie though

 

Bernard Lee's M was an admiral by the time of OHMSS... 'Good afternoon Hammond, is the admiral in'?

[MajorB]

It's whatever you like. Personally, I prefer to believe that all the Bonds through Brosnan were magically the same person. Same with Moneypenny, same with M. I can't give it a realistic explanation. It's just the way I'm inclined--maybe because there was nothing within the movies themselves to indicate otherwise. But if you prefer Brown to have been playing Hargreaves (with the changes in rank being chalked up to, say, a simple continuity error), have at it! It is indeed just a movie.

[Grard Bond]

You're right ofcourse!

I don't think at Eon they have ever thought about this.

After Bernard Lee past away, they just needed another actor to play the part of M, that's all.

The fact that Brown already played another part in a Bond movie doesn't say anything. That happened a lot of times with other actors and actresses too.

Nobody is saying that Charles Gray played the same person, or Martine Beswick.

Or what about Shane Rimmer: first he played in You only live twice and Diamonds are forever someone from NASA (or something like it) and then in The Spy who loved me he had a complete career change and became a submarine commander? Ofcourse not!