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Should the "Reboot" be tied into the old continuity?


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#61 tdalton

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:18 PM

You can't retell On Her Majesty's Secret Service, what had been up until Casino Royale (if I'm not mistaken) the longest film in the franchise, in a 10-15 stretch of film. 

 

Unfortunately, this is a plot point that won't be able to be revisited in a Craig film anyway.  They have to get away from the personal missions.  Craig only has two films left, barring a surprise return for a Bond 26, so it doesn't make if feasible that he would be able to get that kind of story told in his final two films anyway.  That's something that his predecessor will hopefully get a crack at, assuming that they don't reboot the entire thing again.



#62 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:45 PM

When I heard they were rebooting Bond 21 now CR I thought, fine but then don't reboot it for another 20 films. I also thought they might still use 5 actors to play Bond each doing four films like the Brosnan Era however that won't be the case. 



#63 RMc2

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:21 PM

I was very,very happy with the reboot having its own, self-contained continuity until Sam Mendes effed it up with the Goldfinger Aston Martin in SkyFall. Biggest gaff in the series, if you ask me.

 

As for the previous 20 films, I always assumed they existed in the same continuity. On closer study, however, there's a strong case to make that Dalton and Brosnan's characters are two seperate continuities.

 

The wonderful thing about the series is that you can pick and choose favourites to make mini-series within the bigger franchise. For instance, you could consider Dr No, FRWL, TB, YOLT as one long story, extended by a trilogy of OHMSS, TSWLM and FYEO - as long as you overlook the incongruity of Bond and Blofeld not recognising each other in OHMSS.

 

Anywho, my vote = No.

 

I hope the rest of Craig's tenure stays in its own self-contained continuity, with only sly references to the previous films. What EON does with the series after Craig, I don't mind.


Edited by RMc, 02 March 2014 - 05:04 PM.


#64 Walecs

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

@RMc And why not Thunderball?



#65 RMc2

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

@RMc And why not Thunderball?

 

Oh goodness, my mistake!

 

Post edited ;)



#66 ChickenStu

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

RMc I think that (despite it being a BLOODY AWFUL GAME) 007 Legends tries to tie the continuities together in a way. It starts the same as Skyfall with him taking a bullet and falling off a train into a river below. The missions bases on previous films are presented as "flashbacks" he has whilst unconscious. I think the point of this was to somehow leave the player under the impression that inbetween Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall he lived through the events of Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Moonraker, Licence To Kill and Die Another Day. When he is awoken from this slumber a mission based on Skyfall starts.

 

If one were to consider this game "canon" so to speak (although I bloody hope we're not supposed to because it really is a dog turd) then the Aston Martin in Skyfall has a place. Other than that, a simple neat little nod to the fans.

 

If the latter is the case and it was "just a nod" - then come on dude! OK it's a rebooted continuity - but these are STILL James Bond movies and it was STILL the 50th Anniversary! They had to do something did they not? 



#67 tdalton

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:37 PM

RMc I think that (despite it being a BLOODY AWFUL GAME) 007 Legends tries to tie the continuities together in a way. It starts the same as Skyfall with him taking a bullet and falling off a train into a river below. The missions bases on previous films are presented as "flashbacks" he has whilst unconscious. I think the point of this was to somehow leave the player under the impression that inbetween Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall he lived through the events of Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Moonraker, Licence To Kill and Die Another Day. When he is awoken from this slumber a mission based on Skyfall starts.

 

If one were to consider this game "canon" so to speak (although I bloody hope we're not supposed to because it really is a dog turd) then the Aston Martin in Skyfall has a place. Other than that, a simple neat little nod to the fans.

 

If the latter is the case and it was "just a nod" - then come on dude! OK it's a rebooted continuity - but these are STILL James Bond movies and it was STILL the 50th Anniversary! They had to do something did they not? 

 

I can't imagine EON considering the dreadful 007 Legends, or any videogame for that matter, as canon.  It's just a game, serving (barely) the purpose of letting players play through various missions from each of the Bond actors' tenure as part of the celebration of the 50th anniversary.

 

I would also contend that, with regards to having to include homages as part of the 50th anniversary, that it's not something that's really necessary.  The best way to honor the series would be to give it a great film, period, not stuffing references into the film.



#68 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:07 PM

I wonder if it is harder for fans of the films to consider CR a reboot then it is for fans of the novels. I've only read several of the books however am more into the films and just don't want to consider CR a reboot because of my 90's stubbornness. 

 

Does that even make sense. I don't know why I even visit this thread if it only makes my head spine trying to make sense of irrational and explainable things.


Edited by S K Y F A L L, 02 March 2014 - 11:10 PM.


#69 tdalton

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:14 PM

I don't think that it has anything to do with being a fan of the novels versus being a fan of the films.  I think that some may have difficulty accepting it as a reboot because it's a very weak reboot.  Remove a few lines of dialogue and, for the most part, it hangs together pretty much like a Brosnan Bond film, albeit one with better acting and a better script. 

 

I don't have much problem accepting the new continuity because that's what the Craig films are supposed to be, albeit it would be a lot easier to view it the way that EON originally meant for it to be viewed if they'd stop referring back to the first 20 films.



#70 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:50 AM

Basically perfect. "Remove a few lines of dialogue and, for the most part, it hangs together pretty much like a Brosnan film."

 

I would like to add that I don't see CR as a reboot just like I don't see QOS as the first 'true' Bond sequel. To me QOS is no more a sequel then any of the previous films.

 

It's a weird web of continuity. 



#71 tdalton

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:13 AM

Can't say that I'd agree that Casino Royale more or less being a Brosnan Era film at its core is perfect.  Casino Royale is good enough to overcome a lot of its shortcomings, but it could have been so much better had they (can't believe I'm saying this) taken an approach closer to that of Skyfall and had the action be more low-key and not almost entirely contained within the first half of the film.

 

With all of that said, however, I don't really see how Casino Royale can be seen as something other than what it is, which is a reboot.  Granted, it's a flimsy one at that, and the film could be turned into pretty much any other Bond film with some dialogue removed, but the dialogue is there in the film, and we know that Bond receives his Double-oh status in the film (and we see him for a brief period of the film, the PTS, pre-Double-oh status) and then goes out on his first mission.  I also can't agree on Quantum of Solace.  It's very much a sequel to Casino Royale.  It takes place within a relatively short timeframe from the ending of Casino Royale (we don't know exactly how long it took Bond to make it to Sienna), and it follows his attempt to unravel the organization behind Le Chiffre and get closure with regards to Vesper.



#72 Caesar004

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:47 PM

I think with each new Bond 'era' there should come slight canonical retcons. For instance, if you were to assume James Bond has actually been an agent from Dr. No to now, he'd be a very old man. 



#73 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:21 AM

Some things are intertwined. Every new Bond is his own reboot however some

 

main characters still exist through the reboots; M, Q, Moneypenny, Bill Tanner, Felix (This character being rebooted often in the past)

 

some more major story elements are still there IMO; Tracey, Blofeld, Mr White, Kincade, M and Mallory

 

then there are some that can not be possible like Bond being a Cold War veteran.

 

That's how I'm looking at it anyway. 



#74 ChickenStu

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:49 PM

I just don't think about. Take each movie as it comes. I wasn't too keen on the reboot idea at first but at least they went back to Fleming's Casino Royale to do it. I think that was a good move when they finally got the rights to it. 



#75 glidrose

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:39 PM

Yes, that's definitely too much for the PTS. Plus, you wouldn't even feel sorry for Bond and Tracy, if she gets announced just 15 minutes before getting killed. She'd feel just like a random girl. OHMSS built the whole relationship between James and Tracy, and it worked great.


Think of the common complaint re: LTK. The audience barely gets to know Felix and Della.


I would like to have Craig's Bond married, but I don't want it to be a OHMSS remake.


re: Craig's Bond marrying: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#76 Walecs

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:13 PM

Think of the common complaint re: LTK. The audience barely gets to know Felix and Della.

 

Good point.



#77 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:01 PM

Should the reboot be tied into the old continuity. No. Should the new continuity readapt some things from the past? Yes.



#78 ChickenStu

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:27 PM

Should the reboot be tied into the old continuity. No. Should the new continuity readapt some things from the past? Yes.

 

100% agree. Blofeld should come back and Our Man should lose Tracy again. Not a remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service but tell a reworked version of those events within a NEW story. 



#79 RMc2

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

 

Should the reboot be tied into the old continuity. No. Should the new continuity readapt some things from the past? Yes.

 

100% agree. Blofeld should come back and Our Man should lose Tracy again. Not a remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service but tell a reworked version of those events within a NEW story. 

 

 

I also 100% agree, but with one big caveat, to quote glidrose:

 

 

re: Craig's Bond marrying: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Craig's Bond has had far more than his fair share of suffering in this series. And yes, I know Fleming did it in the novels, but having Bond lose two loves-of-his-life across 5 films seems excessive, and dilutes the power of each. Especially since he's now lost the real love of his life, M.*

 

Tragedy in Bond is fine, in moderation. Reintroducing Tracy and killing her again would just be cruel...

 

 

*in a motherly sense, sickos.



#80 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

I agree.  Let Craig-Bond have some fun already.



#81 Hansen

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:47 AM

I just don't think about. Take each movie as it comes. I wasn't too keen on the reboot idea at first but at least they went back to Fleming's Casino Royale to do it. I think that was a good move when they finally got the rights to it. 

I pretty agree on this. No way that a solid continuity can work in Bond universe.

Regarding Marriage/death of Tracy, I am not sure that it is very useful. We already have the sequence with Vesper in CR and the resulting trauma for Bond. Having OHMSS canvas during Craig's area would be repetition



#82 Walecs

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:54 PM

There's a 10 books gap between Casino Royale and OHMSS novels, so yeah, maybe Bond shouldn't get married before Bond 28 or 29.



#83 billy007

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:56 AM

Don't rehash previous films,remakes are rarely any good.
Look at all the movies being remade that are sheer BS.

#84 Hansen

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 08:40 AM

Don't rehash previous films,remakes are rarely any good.
Look at all the movies being remade that are sheer BS.

TSWLM vs YOLT  ;)



#85 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

 

Should the reboot be tied into the old continuity. No. Should the new continuity readapt some things from the past? Yes.

 

100% agree. Blofeld should come back and Our Man should lose Tracy again. Not a remake of On Her Majesty's Secret Service but tell a reworked version of those events within a NEW story. 

 

I agree on Blofeld (whom I'd like to see to have another name & organization) but disagree on Tracy. I don't want to see Bond to get married in this new continuity - the death of Vesper should occationally haunt him, like the death of Tracy did post-OHMSS until 2002.


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 22 March 2014 - 10:11 AM.