44 replies to this topic

[bill007]

Interesting viewpoints presented in this discussion, glad to see this is still a viable topic.  Many thanks to all contributors.

 

With the release of the recent trailer, I am intrigued by this quote:

 

Oberhauser:  It was me, James, the author of your pain.

 

Just what are we to take from that?  Back to the pain of losing Vesper?

[Walecs]

Interesting viewpoints presented in this discussion, glad to see this is still a viable topic.  Many thanks to all contributors.

 

With the release of the recent trailer, I am intrigued by this quote:

 

Oberhauser:  It was me, James, the author of your pain.

 

Just what are we to take from that?  Back to the pain of losing Vesper?

Yeah, I thought that too.

 

I REALLY hope he doesn't mean he killed (or lead to their death) Bond's parents.

[bill007]

 

Interesting viewpoints presented in this discussion, glad to see this is still a viable topic.  Many thanks to all contributors.

 

With the release of the recent trailer, I am intrigued by this quote:

 

Oberhauser:  It was me, James, the author of your pain.

 

Just what are we to take from that?  Back to the pain of losing Vesper?

Yeah, I thought that too.

 

I REALLY hope he doesn't mean he killed (or lead to their death) Bond's parents.

 

Whoa!  Now there's looking at the bigger picture.  I was just looking at it in terms of Quantum/Spectre.  But, in terms of the plot-line of "Bond's past," that would make much more sense.

[Guy Haines]

Given that the villain's name is Oberhauser - and that the name is taken from the short story Octopussy, which refers to a man named Oberhauser as one who became a father figure to Bond at a time when he needed one, because of the loss of his parents - then perhaps the Oberhauser of the film is the author of all Bond's pain. And it might not just involve Vesper Lynd, but go back even further in Bond's past.

Perhaps this Oberhauser was in some way responsible for the deaths of Bond's parents?

It might not make for comfortable viewing for fans. It might explain that line mentioned above. Then again, "all your pain" may simply refer to the events since CR - the deaths of Vesper, Mathis, Agent Fields and M, all part of events where the behind the scenes manipulator was Oberhauser.

[tdalton]

Then again, "all your pain" may simply refer to the events since CR - the deaths of Vesper, Mathis, Agent Fields and M, all part of events where the behind the scenes manipulator was Oberhauser.

 

Hopefully this is the case.  The alternative, having Oberhauser literally responsible for all of Bond's pain from childhood through his current predicament, would be an awful misstep, one of the worst that the franchise will have ever made if they go that direction.

[Guy Haines]

It's possible - I think more likely - that the line refers to what has happened to Bond since CR. I'd have a hard time accepting that Bond's parents were killed by the other boy whose face we can't see in the photograph featured in the first teaser trailer.

But if Oberhauser was behind everything Craig's Bond has battled since he came on the scene, it must mean that from the outset Bond has been battling SPECTRE and never knew. Or to quote another line - one where members are debating who said it - "You came across me so many times, yet you never saw me.". That through Quantum/SPECTRE, Oberhauser had been battling against Bond and the latter never knew it. (As indeed Mr White pointed out in QoS - "the truth is, you don't even know we exist!")

[tdalton]

It's possible - I think more likely - that the line refers to what has happened to Bond since CR. I'd have a hard time accepting that Bond's parents were killed by the other boy whose face we can't see in the photograph featured in the first teaser trailer.

I think that it's most likely that way as well, but I wouldn't put it past Mendes and EON to try to get cute with their storytelling and try to have everything that ever happened to Bond be down to SPECTRE.

If anything, that would really rob SPECTRE of their menace. Instead of being a global organization that has the power to do just about anything they want, they'd basically be reduced to a schoolyard bully that has but one victim: Bond.

[rubixcub]

I think we are supposed to assume that Franz Oberhauser IS the other boy in the photograph.  Remember also that in the short story, Hannes Oberhauser, Bond's father figure, WAS murdered.  I am willing to bet that EON is changing the identity of the murderer from Maj. Dexter-Smythe to Oberhauser's own son, and that perhaps this action of murdering Bond's new father figure having already lost his real parents had an affect on him that contributed to the man he would become.

 

In short, yes to Oberhauser / Blofeld having caused Bond's pain by being behind Quantum / SPECTRE, no to him having had a hand in the deaths of Bond's actual parents, yes to him having done something to Bond after losing his parents but while he was still a child.

 

Dave

[Guy Haines]

Something that never occurred to me until reading your post, rubixcub. That might just be it. Oberhauser senior bumped off by sonny boy due to sheer greed (We've been this way before - remember how Elektra King got rid of her dad?) and Bond, already bereft at the loss of his parents, is - some time later? - as shaken at the loss of a father figure.

[rubixcub]

They also went that way with General & Colonel Moon in the (ironically abbreviated) DAD.

 

Dave

[tdalton]

If the entire Craig Era comes down to a villain essentially tormenting Bond from his childhood through the present, regardless of motivation, then I can safely say that EON will have gotten their final penny out of me as a fan.  It will be an extremely unfunny joke if that's what the entire run of Craig films essentially boils down to.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Given that the villain's name is Oberhauser - and that the name is taken from the short story Octopussy, which refers to a man named Oberhauser as one who became a father figure to Bond at a time when he needed one, because of the loss of his parents - then perhaps the Oberhauser of the film is the author of all Bond's pain. And it might not just involve Vesper Lynd, but go back even further in Bond's past.

Perhaps this Oberhauser was in some way responsible for the deaths of Bond's parents?
 

That was my initial thought upon first seeing the trailer when Franz Oberhauser says he is author of all Bond's pain. I hated it then and I hate it now.

 

 

Then again, "all your pain" may simply refer to the events since CR - the deaths of Vesper, Mathis, Agent Fields and M, all part of events where the behind the scenes manipulator was Oberhauser.

 

Hopefully this is the case.  The alternative, having Oberhauser literally responsible for all of Bond's pain from childhood through his current predicament, would be an awful misstep, one of the worst that the franchise will have ever made if they go that direction.

 

I also hope Oberhauser is only talking about the events from Casino Royale onwards. It would just be too outlandish, crazy, and stupid to make him be responsible for Bond's parents' deaths. It also wouldn't make sense as he really wouldn't have any reason for killing them. Bond (in the books anyway) didn't know and didn't get close to Hannes Oberhauser until after his parents died, so if Franz was jealous of Bond's connection to Hannes then it would only be after Andrew and Monique Bond's deaths. So again, no motive.

 

It makes much more sense and is more believable and yes, palatable, if Franz Oberhauser is only talking about being responsible for Bond's pain from Casino Royale onwards. Nothing else would be acceptable. It's bad enough that he is at all connected to Bond's past however innocently it may turn out to be.

[Guy Haines]

The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that Oberhauser was responsible for the deaths of Bond's parents. Rather, we may well find out that Oberhauser has been the shadowy figure behind everything from CR onwards. That it was his people within the UK Treasury who assigned Vesper Lynd to the CR mission to assist Bond, knowing full well she was being blackmailed. That the deaths of Mathis and Fields were down to Greene and his corrupt allies in Bolivia. That Oberhauser knew of Silva's deranged obsession with M and encouraged him in it.

That said..... how could Oberhauser have known that Vesper and Bond would fall in love? Mathis was an ally but not really a close friend and Fields Bond hardly knew, although in characteristic Bond manner he soon remedied that! M was a person he respected, and those killed in the gas bomb attack would have been work colleagues, not necessarily close friends. Bond would have been affected by this, certainly? But "all your pain"?

I still think it refers to events since CR. But there's still a chance it might refer also, or instead, to Bond's parents. But as the previous post points out, that makes no sense - unless the screenwriters play fast and loose with the material from Octopussy and have Oberhauser senior as a man Bond knew before his parents died - and that he knew Oberhauser junior also.

A controversial idea and one that is likely to have many Bond fans , if you'll pardon me saying so, shaken, not stirred. Still, we're only weeks away from SPECTRE's release. We'll soon know!

(Incidentally, the cinemas have started listing forthcoming releases, and the Odeon and Cinemaworld chains list SPECTRE in upper case throughout.)

[Walecs]

That said..... how could Oberhauser have known that Vesper and Bond would fall in love? Mathis was an ally but not really a close friend and Fields Bond hardly knew, although in characteristic Bond manner he soon remedied that! M was a person he respected, and those killed in the gas bomb attack would have been work colleagues, not necessarily close friends. Bond would have been affected by this, certainly? But "all your pain"?

 

I don't think Oberhauser planned Vesper, Mathis, Fields and M's deaths in order to hit Bond. Oberhauser was behind the events of CR, and QoS to gain profit by Quantum's activities, and the death of Bond's allies was an unintended consequence. When he found out that Bond, the man who ruined his operations, had suffered by Quantum's villainous actions, Oberhauser might have felt "avenged" and might say to Bond "I'm the author of all your pain" as a way to let him down.

[sharpshooter]

I don't think Oberhauser planned Vesper, Mathis, Fields and M's deaths in order to hit Bond. Oberhauser was behind the events of CR, and QoS to gain profit by Quantum's activities, and the death of Bond's allies was an unintended consequence. When he found out that Bond, the man who ruined his operations, had suffered by Quantum's villainous actions, Oberhauser might have felt "avenged" and might say to Bond "I'm the author of all your pain" as a way to let him down.

I completely agree. Oberhauser may have a deep seated grudge against Bond, but the death of Bond's allies really would amount to collateral damage. Incidents that happened along the journey.