Good thread, but i have to say that in terms of the tracks mentioned i thinking Eon have made the right decisions with the exception of Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, which would indeed have sounded great over the end credit roll - much like KD Lang'sTomorrow Never Dies at the end of that movie.
BTW, against what seems to be popular opinion here i think Eon made the right choice with that movie too - Sheryl Crows theme, Don Black's lyrics in particular now standing out as one of the classier entries of the last 30 years.
The Juvenile by Ace Of Base probably would have worked with a different opening title sequence style very well.
Personally i find it pretty tacky with a very cheap sounding synthesised backing track typical of Ace Of Base.
The lyrics seem totally irrelevant (even in the realm of Bond themes that are often a little 'left-field' in their lyrics). What does the oft repeated title Juvenile have to do with Bond? Or was this title a late replacement for the word Goldeneye once the song had been rejected by Eon?
Forever works extremely well too. It has a classic feel, similarly to themes of the past, which is nice.
Aside from Forever feeling a little cheap and the singer not hitting the quality i'd want for Bond (things perhaps attributable to it being a demo) for me Forever'sclassic feel is reason enough that this song wasn't suitable for QoS...
QoS was the furthest from classic Bond we've ever been - Forster compared the movie's pace to a bullet and i'd go further and say it's almost Punk-Bond - a post modern, stripped back story that is 100% about Bond's damaged psyche - more so even than Casino Royale. I love QoS for this uncompromising quality and can easily forgive it it's plot holes which were down to the writer's strike.
Someone in another thread recently described QoS as 'feral' and i think that sums it up perfectly. So it needed a song that was feral - different to the usual.
It's hard to get a theme more feral than 'You Know My Name' (which i love), but i think Another Way To Die is far closer to that intense, 'punk' tone needed for QoS than Forever , or No Good About Goodbye. However, the latter is a great song and could have been perfect for the end credit roll, as Bond trudged off into the snow, reflecting on his losses; Vesper and Mathis.
It was the right choice for CR to end with the Bond theme, since the movie ended with the line 'Bond, James Bond' - it was clear why this should cut to the Bond Theme on the credit roll. But, sadly, Eon seem to be falling back on that as an end theme now as though their bereft of better ideas, or afraid we might've forgotten this was a Bond movie we just watched - a vein and unnecessary attempt at branding.
One unused Bond theme that i'm in two minds about is Muse's track Supremecy from the recent album The 2nd Law. TBH i don't think it was written especially for Bond, or if it was even offered to Eon, or considered by Eon. But i've read that the band thought it would make a great theme and i definitely concur...
In the slower part of the song you can definitely here the chords of the Bond Theme, so i absolutely believe Muse were thinking 'Bond' when they wrote it. And you can easily see Craig unleashing carnage over the opening chords and the fantastically explosive chorus, with it's strings a little reminiscent of Led Zepplin's epic Kashmir.
However its impossible to argue with the popularity and Oscar winning success of Adele'sSkyfall and although i didn't particularly like it at first it really works well once you've seen the movie. It's somber tone perfectly fits the film's opening conceit and Criag's dark, introspective performance throughout, as well as the tragic ending.
So for Muse'sSupremecy i think it's very unfortunate timing - as a potential, but unused Bond theme i think it's by far the best there's been, but it's aggressive, bombastic energy was just all wrong for Skyfall.
BTW, against what seems to be popular opinion here i think Eon made the right choice with that movie too - Sheryl Crows theme, Don Black's lyrics in particular now standing out as one of the classier entries of the last 30 years.
Great lyrics - awful caterwauling. Crowe does alright in the verses, even if it sounds a bit little girlish, but in the choruses she's out of her range. Plus, musically the song's almost a direct rip-off of Fred Steiner's Perry Mason theme.
Good thread, but i have to say that in terms of the tracks mentioned i thinking Eon have made the right decisions with the exception of Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, which would indeed have sounded great over the end credit roll - much like KD Lang'sTomorrow Never Dies at the end of that movie.
BTW, against what seems to be popular opinion here i think Eon made the right choice with that movie too - Sheryl Crows theme, Don Black's lyrics in particular now standing out as one of the classier entries of the last 30 years.
The Juvenile by Ace Of Base probably would have worked with a different opening title sequence style very well.
Personally i find it pretty tacky with a very cheap sounding synthesised backing track typical of Ace Of Base.
The lyrics seem totally irrelevant (even in the realm of Bond themes that are often a little 'left-field' in their lyrics). What does the oft repeated title Juvenile have to do with Bond? Or was this title a late replacement for the word Goldeneye once the song had been rejected by Eon?
Forever works extremely well too. It has a classic feel, similarly to themes of the past, which is nice.
Aside from Forever feeling a little cheap and the singer not hitting the quality i'd want for Bond (things perhaps attributable to it being a demo) for me Forever'sclassic feel is reason enough that this song wasn't suitable for QoS...
QoS was the furthest from classic Bond we've ever been - Forster compared the movie's pace to a bullet and i'd go further and say it's almost Punk-Bond - a post modern, stripped back story that is 100% about Bond's damaged psyche - more so even than Casino Royale. I love QoS for this uncompromising quality and can easily forgive it it's plot holes which were down to the writer's strike.
Someone in another thread recently described QoS as 'feral' and i think that sums it up perfectly. So it needed a song that was feral - different to the usual.
I would just describe QOS as "arty" or "pretentious". However, imo, It's still better than any movie from the Brosnan era.
Regarding No Good About Goodbye, I think it's better than AWTD (almost a copy- paste exercise from a pretty good song like YKMN), but not great.
bet I would like anything other then Another Way To Die,.. Forever - I Am All Yours is alright. Kind of sounds like it could have been used in the Dalton Era. I like it.
I think Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is in the film but its only as an instrumental. I'm not sure I like it better then TB.
, It's still better than any movie from the Brosnan era.
No. Just no.
@ SKYFALL http://www.youtube.c...h?v=bCYpfuaPsbk Dance with Domino is full instrumental of Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Band. During the soundtrack, other cues can also be heard.
, It's still better than any movie from the Brosnan era.
No. Just no.
Well... maybe GoldenEye 007 the videogame can be better than QOS, but certainly not the movie of the same name. Some people tend to confuse their beloved memories of that videogame with the movie associated with, that's the only way I can explain why GE is seen as such a better film than the rest of the Brosnan's, while I think they're all equally mediocre.
, It's still better than any movie from the Brosnan era.
No. Just no.
Well... maybe GoldenEye 007 the videogame can be better than QOS, but certainly not the movie of the same name. Some people tend to confuse their beloved memories of that videogame with the movie associated with, that's the only way I can explain why GE is seen as such a better film than the rest of the Brosnan's, while I think they're all equally mediocre.
GE is a damn good film.
Not perfect; some cheesy moments now and then and an abysmal end credit tune.
But of particular greatness were the pre-titles, the sauna confrontation with Xenia (wonderfully crisp and witty dialogue) and the finale fistfight with Trevelyan - one of the best mano-a-mano fights in the series, making it one the the best finales ever.
I think that despite it being said that TheBourne Identity made the new standard for movie fights, i think you'll find the finale of GE,which pre-dates Bourne, feels every bit as real, every bit as lethal, if not as fully formed or as lengthy as those in Bourne. It certainly feels like a real, painful fight. I imagine this injection of bone crunching reality was care of Mr Campbell who'd had many years of fight experience from the tv series The Professionals, onwards.
Not since the fight with Red Grant in FRWL has it one been so gripping, so equally matched and desperately real.
I'm a fan of QoS, particularly the fight with Mr Slate ending in the very unglamorous strangle hold while he bled out on the balcony. Gritty and disturbingly cold blooded. But i think GEs finale is equally desperate and ruthless in tone, just like a real fight.
So, what i'm getting at, or trying to, is that i'd not place QoS above GE in most respects(not just the fight scenes, which i seem to of gotten a little carried away with here ).
Overall QOS is not a bad movie, but the plot was too much rushed, and, after I watched it several times, I still am unsure about what's going on. The editing and the direction are some of the worse I've ever seen, especially all that fast changing of shots during action scenes. The main title song is the worst ever composed for a Bond movie, and the villain is one of the weakest I've ever seen (and I don't mean phisically).
Overall QOS is not a bad movie, but the plot was too much rushed, and, after I watched it several times, I still am unsure about what's going on. The editing and the direction are some of the worse I've ever seen, especially all that fast changing of shots during action scenes. The main title song is the worst ever composed for a Bond movie, and the villain is one of the weakest I've ever seen (and I don't mean phisically).
No, indeed. I love how they deeply developed Bond's broken heart, his search for a "Quantum of Solace" after the betrayal and loss of Vesper, and the way they introduce a possible SPECTRE reboot.
No, indeed. I love how they deeply developed Bond's broken heart, his search for a "Quantum of Solace" after the betrayal and loss of Bond, and the way they introduce a possible SPECTRE reboot.
Yes, me too, which is why i can forgive it it's trespasses
The issues are no mystery: an unfinished script, due to the strike, left the plot a little opaque (and i imagine that if not for Craig's great performance and Forster's directorial strength in this area the emotional development might've also have been under-served by the unfinished script.
And obviously, while Forster is good with character and emotional arcs, this was a learning curve for him in terms of directing action set-pieces. His close-up shaky cam approach left little room in the edit for logic and geography, hence these scenes are at best expressionistic rather than a true account of the events. Although one set=piece that works very, very well is the fight with Mr Slate - one of the franchise's best in it's speed and callous, gritty ruthlessness.
For me, one of the best scenes in the whole Bond franchise is in QoS - the Opera confrontation - from the moment Bond interrupts Quantum's secret conference, through the sound design dropping off as Green sees Bond on the stairs, through the silent slow-mo operatic gunfight in the restaurant, to Bond coming face to face with the henchman on the roof. Sheer class and as good as Bond as ever been.
Also, their great poetry in the the scripts conclusion - taking Green off into the desert, to later learn he was found dead with engine oil in his stomach; the haunting dialogue when Bond left Camille - a relationship ending truer to the novels than most Bond movies; and at last a good, relevant epilogue seen that ties up the loose ends - not had one of in donkeys years.
I only wished they had the courage to keep the original ending with Bond's shooting in the snow by Mr White, as legend has it.
They should do more cliffhanger ending, such as OHMSS and CR. Fleming did great cliffhangers, such as YOLT and FRWL, with would've been the most similar to QoS had they gone that way.
The reason given was that they wanted a clean slate for Bond 23. Well, fair enough, but they could've still had the attempted assassination ending to QoS and including the idea of his recovery in SF. In fact it might've added to his reasons for his 'death' in SF almost pushing him away from his job for good.
Overall QOS is not a bad movie, but the plot was too much rushed, and, after I watched it several times, I still am unsure about what's going on. The editing and the direction are some of the worse I've ever seen, especially all that fast changing of shots during action scenes. The main title song is the worst ever composed for a Bond movie, and the villain is one of the weakest I've ever seen (and I don't mean phisically).
But apart from that it's not a bad movie
Sorry, but Quantum of Solace is THE quintessential example of bad moviemaking. I could go on for hours about the ways this movie is atrocious, flawed, pretentious, ill-scripted, ill-directed and especially ill-edited, but I'll leave it to just one comment: Bond movies should be fun to watch, and Quantum is not so at any given moment. For crying out loud, even MOONRAKER is a gem of balanced, intelligent filmmaking compared to this turd.
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