14 replies to this topic

[scaramunga]

Great article on The Spy Who Loved Me score. Pipe up with some feedback and let them know a full release of the film score is needed!!

 

http://marvinhamlisc...y-who-loved-me/

[Walecs]

I agree.

[The Cat]

Unfortunately releasing the score has nothing to do with the website, so that's not going to add up to anything.

 

The article has some mistakes and there's a lot more ground to cover (for starters, the score that's actually used in the film). As an aside Mr. & Mrs. Smith didn't feature "Nobody Does It Better" - there was a cover version on the soundtrack (by 8mm) but it was not featured in the film itself.

Edited by The Cat, 22 April 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[scaramunga]

I agree.

 

Hopefully with enough support EMI, Capitol and MGM would see there is enough demand to issue all of the scores in expanded format.

 

It would be nice to get a collaborative group to support this. I know there is a John Barry appreciation site too.

 

There should be a concentrated effort with Commanderbond.net, John Barry site, Marvin's site and other James Bond fan sites like James Bond MI6 UK.

 

It doesn't seem like there is a good way to contact Capitol, EMI or EON. Which is unfortunate for us as consumers.

[Professor Pi]

Lukas Kendall of Film Score Monthly looked into this for the 40th anniversary remasters in 2002.  Basically, TSWLM was too time consuming and expensive to remaster as it was recorded on 24 track master tapes.  There are a few bootleg expanded CDs for it out there, I found one by scouring eBay, but they are hard to come by. 

 

As for the other soundtracks, the Moonraker tapes are lost in France somewhere, MCA holds the rights for Licence to Kill in perpetuity, Octopussy and AVTAK weren't among the others at the vaults, and time ran out before getting to The Man with the Golden Gun.  However, there are re-recordings of TMWGG cues posted on Youtube.  Here's what Lukas said on the subject:

 

"
THE Tracks NOT Taken

Yeah, yeah, yeah—where’s Moonraker, and so on. If five of the Bond soundtracks could be done properly, why not all the others? The answer: time and money, and in some cases, lack of master elements. Master tapes to the first three films—Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger—are not at EMI’s Abbey Road vaults in London, where most of the expanded Bond material was kept. (The four additional cuts on the Goldfinger CD come from the British LP master.) I would presume they are lost. Moonraker is missing because it was recorded in Paris—maybe the tapes are still in France. A View to a Kill was recorded in London, but the tapes are not at Abbey Road for whatever reason. For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights were already expanded for the Rykodisc CDs. This leaves three titles that theoretically could have been expanded: The Man With the Golden Gun, The Spy Who Loved Me and Octopussy. For Octopussy, there may be tapes of extra music at MGM in Los Angeles, but there was not time to evaluate them. There are 24-track tapes of The Spy Who Loved Me atAbbey Road, but I don’t know if these are for the film soundtrack or the LP re-recording; furthermore, 24-track mixes are very time-consuming and expensive. So we end up with only one title that missed narrowly: The Man With the Golden Gun. Originally, EMI was going to try to remix and expand both Live and Let Die and Golden Gun from the 16-track tapes. As the transfers were being done at Abbey Road, I was informed that the process was becoming far too expensive and time-consuming, so Golden Gun would not be done. Had I known we could only do one of the early Moores, I would have suggested the Barry score rather than the George Martin one—but I didn’t, so we couldn’t. The only other thing that fell by the wayside due to a lack of time and money was the tank chase from GoldenEye (the Bond theme arranged by John Altman), which was recorded on fancy modern digital tape that required expensive equipment to transfer. So that’s the true story." —L.K.

Edited by Professor Pi, 09 July 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[scaramunga]

Lukas Kendall of Film Score Monthly looked into this for the 40th anniversary remasters in 2002.  Basically, TSWLM was too time consuming and expensive to remaster as it was recorded on 24 track master tapes.  There are a few bootleg expanded CDs for it out there, I found one by scouring eBay, but they are hard to come by. 

 

As for the other soundtracks, the Moonraker tapes are lost in France somewhere, MCA holds the rights for Licence to Kill in perpetuity, Octopussy and AVTAK weren't among the others at the vaults, and time ran out before getting to The Man with the Golden Gun.  However, there are re-recordings of TMWGG cues posted on Youtube.  Here's what Lukas said on the subject:

 

"
THE Tracks NOT Taken

Yeah, yeah, yeah—where’s Moonraker, and so on. If five of the Bond soundtracks could be done properly, why not all the others? The answer: time and money, and in some cases, lack of master elements. Master tapes to the first three films—Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger—are not at EMI’s Abbey Road vaults in London, where most of the expanded Bond material was kept. (The four additional cuts on the Goldfinger CD come from the British LP master.) I would presume they are lost. Moonraker is missing because it was recorded in Paris—maybe the tapes are still in France. A View to a Kill was recorded in London, but the tapes are not at Abbey Road for whatever reason. For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights were already expanded for the Rykodisc CDs. This leaves three titles that theoretically could have been expanded: The Man With the Golden Gun, The Spy Who Loved Me and Octopussy. For Octopussy, there may be tapes of extra music at MGM in Los Angeles, but there was not time to evaluate them. There are 24-track tapes of The Spy Who Loved Me atAbbey Road, but I don’t know if these are for the film soundtrack or the LP re-recording; furthermore, 24-track mixes are very time-consuming and expensive. So we end up with only one title that missed narrowly: The Man With the Golden Gun. Originally, EMI was going to try to remix and expand both Live and Let Die and Golden Gun from the 16-track tapes. As the transfers were being done at Abbey Road, I was informed that the process was becoming far too expensive and time-consuming, so Golden Gun would not be done. Had I known we could only do one of the early Moores, I would have suggested the Barry score rather than the George Martin one—but I didn’t, so we couldn’t. The only other thing that fell by the wayside due to a lack of time and money was the tank chase from GoldenEye (the Bond theme arranged by John Altman), which was recorded on fancy modern digital tape that required expensive equipment to transfer. So that’s the true story." —L.K.

 

Thanks. I have that article as well. The use of the word "lost" is a bit misleading. They have to put effort into looking for it first.

Hopefully a 3rd party label is able to produce the rest of the Roger Moore scores and expand them for release.

It seems that many Bond fans want this, but there is currently no way to organize and let the parties know that consumer want it.

[Professor Pi]

I think they know, it just unfortunately doesn't appear to be worth their effort.  Sadly, it seems much easier to profit from cheesy re-recordings of Bond title tunes.

 

You might also want to check out comic and Star Trek conventions if you can as some of their vendors have some good quality authentic, if not official, expanded soundtrack CDs.  That was how I picked up FYEO before its official release, and expanded versions of MR, Spy, TWINE, and even an LTK score.  Also, I highly recommend The Music of James Bond by John Burlingame, if you haven't read it yet.

[scaramunga]

I think they know, it just unfortunately doesn't appear to be worth their effort.  Sadly, it seems much easier to profit from cheesy re-recordings of Bond title tunes.

 

You might also want to check out comic and Star Trek conventions if you can as some of their vendors have some good quality authentic, if not official, expanded soundtrack CDs.  That was how I picked up FYEO before its official release, and expanded versions of MR, Spy, TWINE, and even an LTK score.  Also, I highly recommend The Music of James Bond by John Burlingame, if you haven't read it yet.

 

I heard about the book, but have not picked it up yet. Is there any information about the unexpanded scores and why they remain that way?

 

It's amazing to me that MGM, Capitol and EMI wouldn't want to have these full scores issued. 

 

I think the Star Trek scores (which have been reissued and expanded) are a good example of how it can be done properly and successfully. Plus the fact that the price is a bit more on them is fine by the consumer as they are getting what they want and having the official recordings.

 

I think a campaign with Bond fan sites and sites like JohnBarry.org.uk and others are the way to go.

 

At the very least there should be a way for consumers to communicate with EON, Capitol and EMI.

[Professor Pi]

I heard about the book, but have not picked it up yet. Is there any information about the unexpanded scores and why they remain that way?

 

It's amazing to me that MGM, Capitol and EMI wouldn't want to have these full scores issued. 

 

There isn't information on the expanded scores, but there is explanation on why they get edited down.  Often there are two masters, one for the film and one for the soundtrack.  With the latter, they'll re-edit and reshuffle the order to make a 'more pleasurable listening experience.'  Most of Spy's cues were short, so they mixed them together as "Bond '77", or the Pyramids/Eastern Lights/Conclusion cross fades, etc.  With Diamonds Are Forever, they were shooting for a lounge record, which is shy most all of the action themes got cut.  Also of note, John Barry never titled his cues.  Sorting out the rights and distribution issues is often the biggest hurdle, since in theory, they could just put them online.

 

And I agree with you on the Star Trek CD's.  They and the Star Wars people understand the market for expanded film scores.  In the meantime, enjoy what's out and available now.  Compared to the 80s and early 90s, this is a golden age for availability of Bond scores. 

[mikafu]

I've bought the Scores on LP, the first CD-Outing and the Remastered ones. If someone will releasing expanded, or better, complete scores, I would buy them again.  Thunderball  misses still some music, but if I recall correctly, they made an choice which Tracks will be added. If they had made a complete Score it would be a 2CD-Set.

 

Star Trek is a good example for expanded/complete Scores. Only  Nemesis  and Insurrection are missing. And I LOVE the Big Boxes from FSM and La-La-Land. 

[SecretAgentFan]

I've bought the Scores on LP, the first CD-Outing and the Remastered ones. If someone will releasing expanded, or better, complete scores, I would buy them again.  Thunderball  misses still some music, but if I recall correctly, they made an choice which Tracks will be added. If they had made a complete Score it would be a 2CD-Set.

 

Star Trek is a good example for expanded/complete Scores. Only  Nemesis  and Insurrection are missing. And I LOVE the Big Boxes from FSM and La-La-Land. 

"Insurrection" is coming in August!

[scaramunga]

 

I've bought the Scores on LP, the first CD-Outing and the Remastered ones. If someone will releasing expanded, or better, complete scores, I would buy them again.  Thunderball  misses still some music, but if I recall correctly, they made an choice which Tracks will be added. If they had made a complete Score it would be a 2CD-Set.

 

Star Trek is a good example for expanded/complete Scores. Only  Nemesis  and Insurrection are missing. And I LOVE the Big Boxes from FSM and La-La-Land. 

"Insurrection" is coming in August!

 

Awesome! Which label is releasing it?

[scaramunga]

 

I heard about the book, but have not picked it up yet. Is there any information about the unexpanded scores and why they remain that way?

 

It's amazing to me that MGM, Capitol and EMI wouldn't want to have these full scores issued. 

 

There isn't information on the expanded scores, but there is explanation on why they get edited down.  Often there are two masters, one for the film and one for the soundtrack.  With the latter, they'll re-edit and reshuffle the order to make a 'more pleasurable listening experience.'  Most of Spy's cues were short, so they mixed them together as "Bond '77", or the Pyramids/Eastern Lights/Conclusion cross fades, etc.  With Diamonds Are Forever, they were shooting for a lounge record, which is shy most all of the action themes got cut.  Also of note, John Barry never titled his cues.  Sorting out the rights and distribution issues is often the biggest hurdle, since in theory, they could just put them online.

 

And I agree with you on the Star Trek CD's.  They and the Star Wars people understand the market for expanded film scores.  In the meantime, enjoy what's out and available now.  Compared to the 80s and early 90s, this is a golden age for availability of Bond scores. 

 

I've heard about the different masters for scores. I believe this is the case on many of the early Star Trek scores as well. Different takes for the soundtrack album than what was heard in the film. The reissued Trek soundtracks include both which is a great way to go.

 

Diamonds is probably one of my top 5 James Bond scores. I never seem to get tired of that one.

 

A View To A Kill has some great cues that are not on the soundtrack album. Bond escaping by horse from Zorin and the fight at Stacey's house are two cues that I would love to have. The fight at Stacy's includes a bit of music that sounds very similar to some of the James Bond theme action cues heard in Thunderball. 

 

As far as Thunderball they should've done a 2 disc set of the score.

 

Hopefully Intrada or La La Land can be given the rights to do the work and distribute.

 

It would be great to have a petition by all of the James Bond fan sites, John Barry fan sites, etc. for the release of the scores.

[mikafu]

 

 

"Insurrection" is coming in August!

 

Awesome! Which label is releasing it?

 

 

Comes from GNP Crescendo: http://store.gnpcrescendo.com/new/

[scaramunga]

 

 

 

"Insurrection" is coming in August!

 

Awesome! Which label is releasing it?

 

 

Comes from GNP Crescendo: http://store.gnpcrescendo.com/new/

 

 

Fantastic! Thank you!

 

Hopefully EON,  EMI and Capitol can figure the James Bond scores out.

 

These Trek releases have been amazing and I am more than willing to pay $20-30 per score for them.