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The reboot, how it all fits?


39 replies to this topic

#31 graric

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:17 AM

Timeline.

Continuity.

Bollocks!

 

When Mendes said that Skyfall brings Bond full circle to Dr. No, I'm sure he was only referring to Bond's character development. I'm sure he didn't mean to suggest that CR/QoS/SF all take place in the late 1950s (with those really cool futuristic 'cell phones' and other technological marvels which would vanish for a couple of decades before reappearing (like Barbara Mawdsley)),


Barbara Mawdsley didn't vanish for a couple of decades...she only appeared on the scene in the mid-90's (her recruitment no doubt inspired by her uncanny resemblance to Olivia Mansfield, who in this current timeline held the incredible post of the first female head of Mi6 in these futuristic 1950's you were referring to.)

I agree though that Mendes comment can't be taken to literally (nor should the Bond timeline be looked at too seriously in too great a detail...they couldn't even keep the facts consistent between FRWL and YOLT about whether Bond had ever been to Japan!)



#32 Gt Munn

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

Timeline.

Continuity.

Bollocks!

 

When Mendes said that Skyfall brings Bond full circle to Dr. No, I'm sure he was only referring to Bond's character development. I'm sure he didn't mean to suggest that CR/QoS/SF all take place in the late 1950s (with those really cool futuristic 'cell phones' and other technological marvels which would vanish for a couple of decades before reappearing (like Barbara Mawdsley)), or that Dr. No (with its experimental moon rocket) or FRWL (with a mechanical decoder similar to the German Enigma) are the shape of things still to come.

 

Break it up however you like, just stop trying to get your heads around the idea that it all has to work together. If you're going to take everything literally, then Animal Farm was a story about animals taking over a farm, and George Orwell was 'wrong' when he predicted what 1984 was going to be like.

 

One more thing:

 

"Oh, and the valet ticket." (Cool - now I have one Aston Martin in London and another in Nassau!)

Omnia vincit veritas. Truth conqueors all things.

I agree wholeheartedly, my friend.



#33 Shaun Forever

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

My feeling is that CR, QoS and SF are prequels to the other 20 films. Trying to make sense of it all, will just give you a headache. The Bond series is littered with continuity errors. Bond says he and M had an interesting experience in Tokyo and then, 3 films later, says he's never been to Japan.

 

Also in regards to what Professor Pi said about Dench's M, the name Barbara Mawdsley only ever appeared in Benson's novels. I would argue that she is actually playing Olivia Mansfield the entire time and the character is just different in the way that Brosnan and Craig's Bonds are different: same character interpreted differently.

 

This post sums up my opinion perfectly!



#34 Dustin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

If you're going to take everything literally, then Animal Farm was a story about animals taking over a farm, and George Orwell was 'wrong' when he predicted what 1984 was going to be like.

 

Orwell wasn't wrong about 1984, he just omitted the BRAVE NEW WORLD/FAHRENHEIT 451/CLOCKWORK ORANGE/THE HANDMAID'S TALE/LIMES INFERIOR/THE LONG TOMORROW parts.

 

Who can blame him? Would have become a hell of a brick-stone then...


Edited by Dustin, 12 March 2013 - 08:21 PM.


#35 Guy Haines

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

Allow me to add me twopennerth. When I first saw CR in late 2006, it reminded me of a superior remake, an improvement on an earlier Bond film - except that the earlier film, of course, never existed. Obviously it wasn't a remake of CR from 1954 US television or the 1967 spoof. But it was, for me at least, a bit like watching a mid 2000s take on a 1960s Bond - a remake, if you like, of some of the elements of the earlier Bond era. I suppose it was Bond on his first Double O assignment that made me think that way.

 

Since then, although the Craig films have included some of the elements of the films from 1962 to 2002 - the Bond theme, the gunbarrel (though not used as expected), continuity in the casting of M and so on - I've rather regarded them as a separate series. Not Bond 21, 22 and 23, but New Bond 1, 2 and 3. The re-introduction of familiar characters as if Bond had never encountered them before re-inforces this, especially in SF. There are intentional nods in the direction of the old series, some quite deliberate re-use of props such as the DB5, but that's all they are - homage if you like, such as the death of Agent Fields in QoS (now where did we see that before?). Since 2006 the series has been on a new course which can't really be linked chronologically to what went before. Even if, say, Blofeld appears in the next Bond film or the one after that, it won't be a case of "so, we meet again Mr Bond". This James Bond has yet to encounter him. Quite possibly he never will.



#36 AMC Hornet

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:27 PM

...although the Craig films have included some of the elements of the films from 1962 to 2002...I've rather regarded them as a separate series. Not Bond 21, 22 and 23, but New Bond 1, 2 and 3. The re-introduction of familiar characters as if Bond had never encountered them before reinforces this, especially in SF. There are intentional nods in the direction of the old series, some quite deliberate re-use of props such as the DB5, but that's all they are - homage if you like, such as the death of Agent Fields in QoS (now where did we see that before?). Since 2006 the series has been on a new course which can't really be linked chronologically to what went before.

(As Paul Reiser)

"That's what I'm saying!"



#37 007jamesbond

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:11 AM

It a new timeline after the connery era, that is just in the 21 century and post 9/11 instead of post world war II and Cold War era, or simply SF connects to Dr.No to DAF somewhere in between Miles replace Mallory as M. 

 

I don't consider Moore-Bronsan era part of "real bond timeline" 



#38 CasinoKiller

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:34 PM

Honestly, continuity really isn't something one is supposed to worry about as far as the Bond films go. The series has been largely episodic, rather than serial, for most of its existence. Of course, we've had recurring characters and the odd reference to past films/events, which are supposed to indicate they all take place in the same broad 'universe', but I think that's really the extent to which one can rigidly apply logic to the continuity of the franchise.

 

Nevertheless, I've always considered the first 20 films to be in one continuity, more or less (with the caveat that with the Dalton and Brosnan films, a 'floating timeline' was applied to keep Bond relatively young). In terms of the broader narrative history of this Bond-he becomes a 00 agent at some unspecified point during the Cold War, takes down SPECTRE and Blofeld, is married and widowed, fights various other villains, and after the Cold War, works under a new female M. Precise dates and period settings don't really matter much 'officially' though everyone is entitled to their theories.

 

As far as the Craig films go, they're explicitly meant to be a reboot of the franchise, with a totally new continuity and timeline. Judi Dench's M in these films is a different character, continuity wise, from the M in the Brosnan films. Even if she's playing the 'same' character, its only the same character in the way Craig is playing the same character as the previous Bond actors. In this new timeline, Bond becomes a 00 in 2006, goes through the events of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace shortly thereafter...and then we have a six year gap till the events of Skyfall, at which point he's a veteran agent.

 

When Mendes meant that he wanted the series to 'loop back', he was talking in terms of making a 'traditional' Bond film with an experienced  Bond, something we arguably hadn't seen since Die Another Day. He wasn't talking about returning to the old continuity and timeline explicitly. At the same time, the new continuity may borrow aspects from the original, to use as homages, or simply to update them. Thus we have Q, Moneypenny, a male M and basically the set-up from the old Connery films. The Aston Martin DB5 is another such homage. All it really tells us, continuity wise, is that Bond at some point had the car weaponized. Whether or not Craig's Bond went through the events of Goldfinger is open to your interpretation. Likewise, whether or not Bond was being sent on the mission to investigate Dr. No at the end of the film, or whether Q's comment about exploding pens was a reference to the events of Goldeneye.



#39 Skylla

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:15 PM

After the older continuity-mistakes with Blofeld etc., the Judy Dench-thing broke the backbone and after that only the code-name-theory makes a bit of sense. There´s no way Craig-Bond could be the same man like Connery-Bond. That´s what I like about NSNA: DN to NSNA is the same man and went into retirement. The crying man from OHMSS after one job, too. And so on and on. Because of Felix, Moneypenny and some other disturbing things going on like the car, maybe it´s different universes.....have to go to bed now :wacko:  :blink:  :S



#40 Major Tallon

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:43 PM

Bravo, CasinoKiller!