362 replies to this topic

[S K Y F A L L]

Agreed I also found Eve to be annoying, some of the CGI being a little weak in areas and I thought this was a good and funny point; "The gunshot only traced to three people? Were the writers really that stuck?" LOL

[The Krynoid man]

I think is a pretty good Bond film, but nothing more. Even before I went to see it I didn't buy into the hype. It'll never be in my top 10 Bond films.

I wasn't fussed on the villain, both the character and the actors proformence were over the top. I also didn't like it when it turned into Straw Dogs in the third act.

I thought it was better paced than Casino Royale which needed to be about half an hour shorter. I also enjoyed it more than Quantum of Solace, then again I enjoy Die Another Day to Quantum of Solace.

[dtuba]

I thought it was a very good film, but it could have been a bit more "Bondian" (is that what they call it around here?). The gunbarrel was pretty weak and in the wrong place. Newman's score was bland and awful IMHO - He had the opportunity to interpret the classic theme in his own style but instead gave us a score full of generic action film cues. Adele's song was much better than the actual score.

 

I also thought the banter between Eve and Bond sounded forced and awkward.

 

To sum up: Skyfall was a good film film, but was a little bit lacking in the Bond department. Will rank it highly, but probably not Top 5.  

[RMc2]

I thought it was a very good film, but it could have been a bit more "Bondian" (is that what they call it around here?). The gunbarrel was pretty weak and in the wrong place. Newman's score was bland and awful IMHO - He had the opportunity to interpret the classic theme in his own style but instead gave us a score full of generic action film cues. Adele's song was much better than the actual score.

 

I also thought the banter between Eve and Bond sounded forced and awkward.

 

To sum up: Skyfall was a good film film, but was a little bit lacking in the Bond department. Will rank it highly, but probably not Top 5.  

 

I agree with you almost entirely - I say almost, because I think Thomas Newman's 'Severine' and 'Mother' themes are gorgeous, and his action cues shouldn't be underrated, even if they are very very typical of the past decade's action scores. David Arnold does Bond action perfectly.

 

Otherwise, you nailed it: weak gunbarrel, poor banter and zero chemistry between Craig and Harris.

 

I'd also add: anti-climactic end (a trait of the series since GoldenEye, and not *bad* per se, just disappointing) and really, really awkward plot holes for which the film doesn't have an excuse, especially given the whole 'We got to work on it for 4 years so it's brilliant' hype.

 

I also wouldn't put it in my top 5, if only just (see my signature...)

Edited by RMc, 13 August 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[DominicGreene]

I made my own cut of Skyfall, and I was able to shorten it to about 1h55min. Here's some things I did,

 

- Gunbarrel in the beginning

- Cut out scene with Ronson, any dialogue pertaining to him. Cut out cheeky remarks from Bond about the mirrors.

- Took out retarded CGI shots on Grand Bazaar, shortened rooftop chase.

- Shortened train cat/mouse. Cut out most of M's dialogue. Removed product placement.

- After the credits, it cuts to Bond in Greece. Anything before was cut out completely, including the God awful explosion scene.

- Scorpion scene is cut out.

- First time we see M after the pre-titles is in her apartment drinking alcohol.

- Gun range, psychological scene is cut out.

- Scene with Eve & Bond at the new MI6 is cut out.

- After Bond's looking at the chip in Shanghai, it directly cuts to the fireworks scene. This part is also heavily cut.

- Eve's scenes at the casino are 95% taken out.

- No fight scene at the casino; all dialogue about Eve's men attacking Bond are cut out.

- Underwater scene is cut out.

 

The rest is pretty much intact. 

 

I'm not going to say this version is better. My primary goal was to get it as-short-as-possible.

Edited by DominicGreene, 13 August 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[RMc2]

I made my own cut of Skyfall, and I was able to shorten it to about 1h55min. Here's some things I did,

 

- Gunbarrel in the beginning

- Cut out scene with Ronson, any dialogue pertaining to him. Cut out cheeky remarks from Bond about the mirrors.

- Took out retarded CGI shots on Grand Bazaar, shortened rooftop chase.

- Shortened train cat/mouse. Cut out most of M's dialogue. Removed product placement.

- After the credits, it cuts to Bond in Greece. Anything before was cut out completely, including the God awful explosion scene.

- Scorpion scene is cut out.

- First time we see M after the pre-titles is in her apartment drinking alcohol.

- Gun range, psychological scene is cut out.

- Scene with Eve & Bond at the new MI6 is cut out.

- After Bond's looking at the chip in Shanghai, it directly cuts to the fireworks scene. This part is also heavily cut.

- Eve's scenes at the casino are 95% taken out.

- No fight scene at the casino; all dialogue about Eve's men attacking Bond are cut out.

- Underwater scene is cut out.

 

The rest is pretty much intact. 

 

I'm not going to say this version is better. My primary goal was to get it as-short-as-possible.

 

Thanks for sharing with us

 

Here's my penny's worth...

 

- I don't mind the scorpion scene, but I don't see what it does for the character. It would be worth keeping in if the scorpion were real(!), but since it's CGI, it's charmless and pointless. Good call.

- Gun range and psychiatric evaluation - on first viewing, I liked these scenes. They're still good scenes. BUT THEY HAVE NO PAY-OFF. You're right to take those out.

- I completely agree with taking Eve out of the casino. Terrible writing and acting there. It also slows that section of the film down a lot.

- The underwater fight is superfluous, thanks for taking that out. Just Bond falling through the ice is enough to delay him reaching M in time.

 

I can live with product placement because the films need it for funding. Also, apart from the watch shot on the train, it never bothered me in SF.

 

Overall, great stuff. I don't think you need to take out as much as you have done; I'd say SF was only about 5mins too long, but it's impressive how you managed to find 20 mins to take out!

Edited by RMc, 13 August 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[GalaSilva]

The gun range scene would be needed because it is brought into Severine's death scene. That's one of the reasons Silva does it because he knows Bond didn't do well in the gun range? 

[Hansen]

I made my own cut of Skyfall, and I was able to shorten it to about 1h55min. Here's some things I did,

 

- Gunbarrel in the beginning

- Cut out scene with Ronson, any dialogue pertaining to him. Cut out cheeky remarks from Bond about the mirrors.

- Took out retarded CGI shots on Grand Bazaar, shortened rooftop chase.

- Shortened train cat/mouse. Cut out most of M's dialogue. Removed product placement.

- After the credits, it cuts to Bond in Greece. Anything before was cut out completely, including the God awful explosion scene.

- Scorpion scene is cut out.

- First time we see M after the pre-titles is in her apartment drinking alcohol.

- Gun range, psychological scene is cut out.

- Scene with Eve & Bond at the new MI6 is cut out.

- After Bond's looking at the chip in Shanghai, it directly cuts to the fireworks scene. This part is also heavily cut.

- Eve's scenes at the casino are 95% taken out.

- No fight scene at the casino; all dialogue about Eve's men attacking Bond are cut out.

- Underwater scene is cut out.

 

The rest is pretty much intact. 

 

I'm not going to say this version is better. My primary goal was to get it as-short-as-possible.

I would also take the 'Tennyson' speech out. Seems weird to want to make that speech when you know that your organization is under alert

[RMc2]

The gun range scene would be needed because it is brought into Severine's death scene. That's one of the reasons Silva does it because he knows Bond didn't do well in the gun range? 

 

Ah yes, thanks. In which case, it would be ideal to have an extra scene where Bond's aim returns to him, rather than the 'it comes back immediately in time for the finale' device they use in the final cut. Although, I'm sure a thorough analysis would conclude that Bond finds himself unable to pass the tests, but perfectly able to perform on the job, as it were

[Major Tallon]

The gun range and psyhologist scene are necessary because they bolster Silva's claim to Bond that M is unconcerned for Bond's survival.  The movie shows that Bond, despite what these supposedly reliable tests show, is nevertheless fit for the job and up to the challenge.  If you cut them, you lose that subtext for the film.

[x007AceOfSpades]

The gun range and psyhologist scene are necessary because they bolster Silva's claim to Bond that M is unconcerned for Bond's survival.  The movie shows that Bond, despite what these supposedly reliable tests show, is nevertheless fit for the job and up to the challenge.  If you cut them, you lose that subtext for the film.

 

Well said.

[Guy Haines]

I made my own cut of Skyfall, and I was able to shorten it to about 1h55min. Here's some things I did,

 

- Gunbarrel in the beginning

- Cut out scene with Ronson, any dialogue pertaining to him. Cut out cheeky remarks from Bond about the mirrors.

- Took out retarded CGI shots on Grand Bazaar, shortened rooftop chase.

- Shortened train cat/mouse. Cut out most of M's dialogue. Removed product placement.

- After the credits, it cuts to Bond in Greece. Anything before was cut out completely, including the God awful explosion scene.

- Scorpion scene is cut out.

- First time we see M after the pre-titles is in her apartment drinking alcohol.

- Gun range, psychological scene is cut out.

- Scene with Eve & Bond at the new MI6 is cut out.

- After Bond's looking at the chip in Shanghai, it directly cuts to the fireworks scene. This part is also heavily cut.

- Eve's scenes at the casino are 95% taken out.

- No fight scene at the casino; all dialogue about Eve's men attacking Bond are cut out.

- Underwater scene is cut out.

 

The rest is pretty much intact. 

 

I'm not going to say this version is better. My primary goal was to get it as-short-as-possible.

I've said elsewhere on the site that the underwater fight scene - Bond kills yet another anonymous henchman - didn't quite cut it for me. I'd have preferred a fight on land between Bond and Silva, at the end of which the latter thinks he's killed Bond, or at least disabled him, then goes on to the church to attempt to kill M. And at the end of that attempt we have pretty much what happened in the film.

 

Silva having "killed" Bond, he could have commented, in passing, "You see James, you're still not the agent I am", or something similar. A bit like 006's line in GE I know, but this was a movie with a fair few references back, albeit not in your face.

 

Mentioning lines, I noticed in the weighty (In every sense!) tome from Taschen "The James Bond Archives" a line from the Silva/M church scene which never made the movie - as the villain attempts to force M to kill them both, he says, "Your guilt, my pain." Pity it never made the final cut. It sums up why Silva did what he did, and M's sometimes questionable actions in the film.

[Dustin]

 

I've said elsewhere on the site that the underwater fight scene - Bond kills yet another anonymous henchman - didn't quite cut it for me. I'd have preferred a fight on land between Bond and Silva, at the end of which the latter thinks he's killed Bond, or at least disabled him, then goes on to the church to attempt to kill M. And at the end of that attempt we have pretty much what happened in the film.

 

 

Silva having "killed" Bond, he could have commented, in passing, "You see James, you're still not the agent I am", or something similar. A bit like 006's line in GE I know, but this was a movie with a fair few references back, albeit not in your face.

 

Mentioning lines, I noticed in the weighty (In every sense!) tome from Taschen "The James Bond Archives" a line from the Silva/M church scene which never made the movie - as the villain attempts to force M to kill them both, he says, "Your guilt, my pain." Pity it never made the final cut. It sums up why Silva did what he did, and M's sometimes questionable actions in the film.

 

 

Would have been interesting to have Silva stab Bond and leave the knife in his carcass, only to get back what's his when Bond throws that same knife. 

 

But probably too complicated and a line like 'I believe this is yours.' by Bond would have been cheesy in that situation. 

[dtuba]

 

I thought it was a very good film, but it could have been a bit more "Bondian" (is that what they call it around here?). The gunbarrel was pretty weak and in the wrong place. Newman's score was bland and awful IMHO - He had the opportunity to interpret the classic theme in his own style but instead gave us a score full of generic action film cues. Adele's song was much better than the actual score.

 

I also thought the banter between Eve and Bond sounded forced and awkward.

 

To sum up: Skyfall was a good film film, but was a little bit lacking in the Bond department. Will rank it highly, but probably not Top 5.  

 

I agree with you almost entirely - I say almost, because I think Thomas Newman's 'Severine' and 'Mother' themes are gorgeous, and his action cues shouldn't be underrated, even if they are very very typical of the past decade's action scores. David Arnold does Bond action perfectly.

 

Otherwise, you nailed it: weak gunbarrel, poor banter and zero chemistry between Craig and Harris.

 

I'd also add: anti-climactic end (a trait of the series since GoldenEye, and not *bad* per se, just disappointing) and really, really awkward plot holes for which the film doesn't have an excuse, especially given the whole 'We got to work on it for 4 years so it's brilliant' hype.

 

I also wouldn't put it in my top 5, if only just (see my signature...)

 

 

My apologies, I meant to say that Newman's action cues were bland and awful. The dramatic themes (the scene with M and the coffins...was that Mother?, and the Chimera) were lovely and appropriate.

Edited by dtuba, 02 September 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[Janus Assassin]

SkyFall was perfect. Wouldn't change a thing about it. 

[5thstreet]

The one thing I did not like was the score,to much Hollywood superhero, no bond mood. Otherwise a great film.

[Guy Haines]

 

 

I thought it was a very good film, but it could have been a bit more "Bondian" (is that what they call it around here?). The gunbarrel was pretty weak and in the wrong place. Newman's score was bland and awful IMHO - He had the opportunity to interpret the classic theme in his own style but instead gave us a score full of generic action film cues. Adele's song was much better than the actual score.

 

I also thought the banter between Eve and Bond sounded forced and awkward.

 

To sum up: Skyfall was a good film film, but was a little bit lacking in the Bond department. Will rank it highly, but probably not Top 5.  

 

I agree with you almost entirely - I say almost, because I think Thomas Newman's 'Severine' and 'Mother' themes are gorgeous, and his action cues shouldn't be underrated, even if they are very very typical of the past decade's action scores. David Arnold does Bond action perfectly.

 

Otherwise, you nailed it: weak gunbarrel, poor banter and zero chemistry between Craig and Harris.

 

I'd also add: anti-climactic end (a trait of the series since GoldenEye, and not *bad* per se, just disappointing) and really, really awkward plot holes for which the film doesn't have an excuse, especially given the whole 'We got to work on it for 4 years so it's brilliant' hype.

 

I also wouldn't put it in my top 5, if only just (see my signature...)

 

 

My apologies, I meant to say that Newman's action cues were bland and awful. The dramatic themes (the scene with M and the coffins...was that Mother?, and the Chimera) were lovely and appropriate.

 

The "action" music cues are the one aspect of Bond music post-John Barry which I'm not sure any composer has quite got right, at least to the satisfaction of my tin ear. They either sound a bit generic or discordant to me. I've been listening to my 1960s scores from FRWL to OHMSS, and DAF from the 1970s. In spite of being written by the same man, they all have a distinctive "signature", and  manage to incorporate other themes whilst sounding "unique". You can listen to, for example, the score for TB, and not mistake it for the score for OHMSS. That was John Barry's genius - he managed to write something "the same but different" every time.

[dtuba]

 

 

 

I thought it was a very good film, but it could have been a bit more "Bondian" (is that what they call it around here?). The gunbarrel was pretty weak and in the wrong place. Newman's score was bland and awful IMHO - He had the opportunity to interpret the classic theme in his own style but instead gave us a score full of generic action film cues. Adele's song was much better than the actual score.

 

I also thought the banter between Eve and Bond sounded forced and awkward.

 

To sum up: Skyfall was a good film film, but was a little bit lacking in the Bond department. Will rank it highly, but probably not Top 5.  

 

I agree with you almost entirely - I say almost, because I think Thomas Newman's 'Severine' and 'Mother' themes are gorgeous, and his action cues shouldn't be underrated, even if they are very very typical of the past decade's action scores. David Arnold does Bond action perfectly.

 

Otherwise, you nailed it: weak gunbarrel, poor banter and zero chemistry between Craig and Harris.

 

I'd also add: anti-climactic end (a trait of the series since GoldenEye, and not *bad* per se, just disappointing) and really, really awkward plot holes for which the film doesn't have an excuse, especially given the whole 'We got to work on it for 4 years so it's brilliant' hype.

 

I also wouldn't put it in my top 5, if only just (see my signature...)

 

 

My apologies, I meant to say that Newman's action cues were bland and awful. The dramatic themes (the scene with M and the coffins...was that Mother?, and the Chimera) were lovely and appropriate.

 

The "action" music cues are the one aspect of Bond music post-John Barry which I'm not sure any composer has quite got right, at least to the satisfaction of my tin ear. They either sound a bit generic or discordant to me. I've been listening to my 1960s scores from FRWL to OHMSS, and DAF from the 1970s. In spite of being written by the same man, they all have a distinctive "signature", and  manage to incorporate other themes whilst sounding "unique". You can listen to, for example, the score for TB, and not mistake it for the score for OHMSS. That was John Barry's genius - he managed to write something "the same but different" every time.

 

He also understood the dynamics of jazz music. Every individual instrument has a voice and a role in the music. Barry did more with less and left a lot of space in his music, whereas Arnold tries to pile on as many instruments as possible, making a discordant mess. His action cues for QOS were probably the least cluttered, and IMHO his best.

[S K Y F A L L]

I was kind of hoping for a Bond vs Silva moment, perhaps knife fighting at the end. 

[Guy Haines]

I was kind of hoping for a Bond vs Silva moment, perhaps knife fighting at the end. 

Agreed. I thought the fight underwater between Bond and the henchman was superfluous. I'd have liked to have seen Bond fight Silva, the latter emerging, apparently triumphant before moving on to attempt to kill M - only for Bond to appear and finish Silva off pretty much as he does in the film. In this version Silva would turn and look not only angry but surprised to see 007 still alive. Cue for Bond to quip "I did tell you my hobby was resurrection."

[Grard Bond]

 

I was kind of hoping for a Bond vs Silva moment, perhaps knife fighting at the end. 

Agreed. I thought the fight underwater between Bond and the henchman was superfluous. I'd have liked to have seen Bond fight Silva, the latter emerging, apparently triumphant before moving on to attempt to kill M - only for Bond to appear and finish Silva off pretty much as he does in the film. In this version Silva would turn and look not only angry but surprised to see 007 still alive. Cue for Bond to quip "I did tell you my hobby was resurrection."

 

I was thinking the same when I had seen the movie for the first time. That would have been so much better! There is now almost no real final fight and a little weak final confrontation.

[sharpshooter]

I found the Silva/M finale one of the tensest sequences in the franchise. If I had to compare it to anything, the TDK finale with Gordon's family comes to mind. 

[Grard Bond]

If you realy think the TDK final was great, you probaly think the one of Skyfall is great too. I can understand that.

[Universal Exports]

My view on Skyfall was that it was very well directed by Mendes.  I think he is great.  The allusions to previous Bond movies (the DB5, leather door at M's office, etc.) were very well done.  Only 3 things in the movie really disappointed me.

 

1) Daniel Craig-  To each his own, but to me, he just doesn't have "it."  It's hard to explain, but he is just too intense for Bond.  He also doesn't look the part.  He is not suave or debonair, too much of a bruiser.  He always has such a fiery, intense look in his eyes.  He's not laid back enough.  All in all- he is too unrefined.

 

2) M- Using Judi Dench as M has always felt to me to be a very weak accession to feminists.  Great actress, bad fit as M.  In this movie specifically, she comes across and indecisive and weak.  The old M, Bernard Lee, never showed any of these characteristics.  GE is the only movie in which I appreciated Judi Dench in her role as M.  I loved the tension between her and Brosnan in their first interaction.  Glad she is gone.

 

As an aside, I love the new M.  Can't wait to see him in the future.

 

3) Javier Bardem- Unbelievable performance in No Country for Old Men.  Lackluster performance in Skyfall.  Just another bad fit.  I can't really explain it in any other way than he did not fit the character they were trying to develop.  His entrance to the film and the following dialogue was emblematic of him being a poor fit.  It just seemed a bit awkward and unconvincing. Not to mention they already did the traitorous ex-agent angle with 006 in GE (in my opinion, very well done).

 

I consider it a shame the film had the aforementioned shortcomings.  Apart from those things, I thought it was fantastic.  Brosnan is probably my 4th favorite Bond, but if you could take the Pierce of 15 years ago and put him in this movie, it would have been worlds better.  

[SecretAgentFan]

Well, you certainly took a long time to make your mind up about this film.

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 11 October 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Universal Exports]

Well, you certainly took a long time to make your mind up about this film.

Long time and infrequent lurker.  Finally posted yesterday.

[The Shark]

3) Javier Bardem- Unbelievable performance in No Country for Old Men.  Lackluster performance in Skyfall.

 

My take is the other way round. Show stopping, witty, and unsettling performance in SKYFALL. Silva instantly made me forget abut Anton Chigurh.
 

[SecretAgentFan]

 

3) Javier Bardem- Unbelievable performance in No Country for Old Men.  Lackluster performance in Skyfall.

 

My take is the other way round. Show stopping, witty, and unsettling performance in SKYFALL. Silva instantly made me forget abut Anton Chigurh.
 

 

 

Same here. Before SKYFALL I thought the casting of Bardem was a mistake, just because of his "Chigurh".  Now, Silva overshadows that character for me.

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 12 October 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[x007AceOfSpades]

 

 

3) Javier Bardem- Unbelievable performance in No Country for Old Men.  Lackluster performance in Skyfall.

 

My take is the other way round. Show stopping, witty, and unsettling performance in SKYFALL. Silva instantly made me forget abut Anton Chigurh.
 

 

 

Same here. Before SKYFALL I thought the casting of Bardem was a mistake, just because of his "Chigurh".  Now, Silva overshadows that character for me.

 

 

Absolutely agree, though I was always keen on him being casted, mainly because of his performance in No Country For Old Men. Silva comes to mind when I think about Bardem now.

[The Shark]

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