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Is the post-Higson hate excessive?


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#1 Tiin007

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:57 PM

As a huge literary Bond fan, I love reading the various continuation novels (despite the fact that, as I'm sure most of us would agree, none of them compare to the quality of Fleming's originals).

 

Yet, reading through these forums, I often get the feeling that Faulks and Deaver are the two continuation novelists who are most universally hated. Having read their respective novels soon after they were released, I honestly believe that their efforts were no worse than those of their predecessors. Granted, I have not read any of Benson's works yet, but Gardner seems to be well liked by Bond fans. While I certainly love many of Gardner's earlier efforts (plus Scorpius, which I think is far and away the most underrated Gardner novel), his novels eventually reached the point where it just felt like he was using a checklist to write them-- the double and triple crosses being the obvious example, but the fact that all 14 of his novels seem to be within a five page range in terms of page count (not to mention that all the stories tend to unfold at virtually parallel page numbers) eventually started to irritate me. I felt like his novels grew stale.

 

That being said, while I concede that Devil May Care and Carte Blanche were not my personal favorites, I do think that they were far better novels than many people give them credit for.

 

So my question is simple: does anybody else think that the recent continuation novels have received too much criticism by fans when compared to older continuation novels?

 

If not, why do you think these novels are that much worse than, say, most of Gardner's?

 

 



#2 tdalton

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

I don't think that they've received too much criticism at all.  For me, both novels were very poor and didn't do a particularly great job of capturing the essence of Bond, especially CARTE BLANCHE, in which Bond was almost unrecognizable as a character. 

 

I think the problem with comparing them to Gardner's work is, as you said, Gardner's novels began to decline in quality towards the end of his tenure, but his tenure was considerably longer than those of Faulks and Deaver.  Gardner started off very strong as far as I'm concerned.  FOR SPECIAL SERVICES and ICEBREAKER are better Bond novels than either DEVIL MAY CARE or CARTE BLANCHE.  My memory of some of his other early work is somewhat fuzzy as I haven't read LICENCE RENEWED or the other Gardner novels in a very long time, but even off the back of FOR SPECIAL SERVICES and ICEBREAKER I'd say that Gardner's tenure was more of a success than the recent attempts at continuing the literary franchise.



#3 Dustin

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

That being said, while I concede that Devil May Care and Carte Blanche were not my personal favorites, I do think that they were far better novels than many people give them credit for.

 

There is an easy litmus test for a Bond continuation: call the main character Harry Smith and see if you'd read it to the end. And if so, see if you feel an urge to reread it for whatever reason, the story, the characters, the atmosphere and 'feel' of it all. 

 

 

 

 

So my question is simple: does anybody else think that the recent continuation novels have received too much criticism by fans when compared to older continuation novels?

 

If not, why do you think these novels are that much worse than, say, most of Gardner's?

 

 

Sadly, it has to be said both DMC and CB don't pass the above test for me. The reasons DMC falls short are obvious and have been explained numerous times already: Faulks didn't take his character seriously while writing. In fact he didn't take the entire effort seriously but made a show of churning out the book in Fleming style in the shortest possible time with the least possible effort. Like Fleming did in his day. Only Fleming did not write his books, he dreamt them. And dream of exciting adventures and fantastic exotic locales he did the whole year around. Putting the stuff on paper was a chore he got rid of during his holidays at Goldeneye. But his stories grew with every daydream, every discussion and every drink, wherever he happened to be, London, Jamaica, Berlin or the US. Channelling this kind of raw material, mixing it with childhood memories and wartime experiences, that was Fleming's real gift. He had a way with words, no doubt about that. But his Bond stood out because he also had a way with his imagination. Faulks unfortunately isn't made from that cloth. Moreover, he didn't recognise this particular trait of Fleming. Worst, he didn't care.

 

 

CB gets the stick for different reasons. I suppose Jeffery Deaver was much more aware of what made Fleming tick and what made his books such a success. Deaver thankfully didn't try to ape Fleming or arrive with the pretentious insolence to write 'as Ian Fleming'. Deaver set out with an honourable task: to reinvent - reboot - lit-Bond with a mind to start an entirely new fresh series of 007 for the 21st century. In a way much of the criticisms Deaver got for CB are similar to those Gardner got for LR, "...bland", "...uninspired", "...not Bond!", "...not Fleming!!!" and so on. Funnily I think his book would have gotten much less flack, had it not been announced as a reboot. As a direct follow-up to Gardner's last continuation COLD it could have worked much better. Cut out all the unnecessary, superfluous setting-of-stage with the ODG and the parents sub-plot and concentrate instead Bond vs. villain and voilà: a decent middle-of-the-pack continuation like we've had them during the 80s. Much of Deaver's idea of Bond would blend far better with Gardner's by-then-established transformation to Captain James Boldman.  

 

The reboot idea I initially liked quite a lot. I just feel CB didn't go far enough with it, there are a few modern yuppie toys and the usual assortment of brand names, but otherwise the whole thing is pretty pointless. The constellation between the characters arrives in Bond-cliché reservation within the first three chapters and doesn't break from there any more. At the same time Bond seems to be missing. There is a guy with his name and number and all his toys, but it's never a person we - I at any rate - care a lot about. He's never in real danger, hardly has to sweat during the assignment. 

 

Some argue the task was impossible from square one, that a modern character cannot be imagined with any hope to get someone resembling Bond as a result. Well, I beg to differ there. Especially our troubled and yet so hedonistic times offer various niches for individualists with a taste for adrenaline. I'm sure you could imagine a young adventurous guy who got involved with the world of secret intelligence, got a taste of danger and just stuck with it. CB never aimed beyond a - moderate - update of Bond's situation as known from Fleming. In this regard it is too timid and afraid of change, perhaps because the familiar situation M-Bond-Moneypenny-Goodnight-Q had to be reached as soon as possible, apparently to blend the book with the famous films and not confuse readers with something different.     

 

So the reboot facet of CB is a non-starter. Still, the book itself could be fine, couldn't it? Unfortunately it's not really a winner. It's not bad at all IMO, but it's also not what you'd call a gripping page turner. The action is often uninteresting, Bond from first to last page too omnipotent, the villain with some potential, most of it sadly unused. There are twists, but none that can't be seen from a long way. CB's course is it's not gripping enough on first read and doesn't offer scenes that would call for subsequent reads. Gardner's continuations - most of them - at least offer something that makes a revisit an option every once in a while. I can't imagine giving CB a second go, despite having forgotten most of the affair.


Edited by Dustin, 18 February 2013 - 08:35 PM.


#4 zencat

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

Yes. It's excessive. It's one of the reasons I've drifted away from CBn.

 

But I've noticed knee-jerk hyper criticism from Bond fans about everything. People here seem to fall over themselves to be the first to say a neagitve thing about the latest book, poster, movie, you name it. I think some "fans" feel like they sound more intelligent when they critique. But it's super easy to criticize. It's much harder to express why something is good.

 

But I also think the nature of fan forums has become a place to gripe. The ability to remain anonymous facilitates that. It's why I've moved on to a personal blog and Facebook as a place to share my excitement for all things Bond. Right or wrong, negative people are a drag.



#5 Dustin

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

Yes. It's excessive. It's one of the reasons I've drifted away from CBn.

 

But I've noticed knee-jerk hyper criticism from Bond fans about everything. People here seem to fall over themselves to be the first to say a neagitve thing about the latest book, poster, movie, you name it. I think some "fans" feel like they sound more intelligent when they critique. But it's super easy to criticize. It's much harder to express why something is good.

 

But I also think the nature of fan forums has become a place to gripe. The ability to remain anonymous facilitates that. It's why I've moved on to a personal blog and Facebook as a place to share my excitement for all things Bond. Right or wrong, negative people are a drag.

 

 

I don't think that's addressing the whole problem, at least not the core of it. Why then for example is Charlie Higson - by most CBners who've read him - not getting a fraction of the criticisms DMC and CB evoked? Despite working a far more controversial concept that made shots at his work - Potter-Bond and the like - a dime a dozen? Simply put because he succeeded in capturing what fans - for most of his readers are that, fans - were looking for in Bond. They found it in a series of young adult adventure novels that were nothing like the films, nothing like the clichéd images the famed 007 on a book cover immediately provokes in readers. Higson, while still not everybody's idea of the ideal continuation author, simply entertained with his work; not perhaps in strictest hard-boiled thriller conventions - hard to do with a young adult novel - but with the general spirit of it.

 

Compared to this success the two later books - 'proper adult continuations' - did not meet the high expectations. Mind you, I don't begrudge any reader the amusement they experience with DMC or CB. To the contrary, I always urge newcomers to check them out themselves and see if they get any fun from them. As I do with the Gardners or Bensons. Why? Because I'm a fan and like other people to get the same fun from our common interest I do. But just because these books happen to feature someone called Bond they can't be beyond reasonable criticism, regardless of fan status.

 

Emphasis on reasonable there. I've heard people pan CB because its version of Bond wasn't racist/sadistic/murderous/sexist/psychotic/misogynist enough. We needn't discuss these ideas any further, such creatures obviously project their own needs and misunderstandings on Bond, in the vain hope to get an idol with their own shortcomings but less smelly. But there's a whole world between such delusional misinterpretation and actually not being entertained sufficiently by DMC or CB. If one feels DMC is close to satire, is that really an entirely unfounded impression? If I think CB goes where Gardner went before - did Deaver read the last few Gardners, I wonder? - and with a lesser result, is that not a valid observation?

 

Hate for Faulks or Deaver is of course entirely beside the point. I know Faulks as a gifted novelist; he will remain that even though - judging by his recent remarks about Bond, Craig and SKYFALL - he apparently doesn't understand the character of Bond on page or screen. Deaver is a seasoned veteran of the scientific police procedural and serial killer sub-genre and I've read a couple of gripping, entertaining books by him. My respect for his work isn't one iota less because I was disappointed by his Bond effort.   



#6 tdalton

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

^^Agreed, Dustin.

 

I don't think it has much to do with people wanting to criticize the new novels just to criticize them, which itself seems to be an argument that's used far too often against those who don't like the newest offering from EON or IFP (or anything else way from Bond, for that matter).  I don't think it arises from a need to sound more intelligent by voicing a dislike about the latest novel or film, but rather I think it stems from people simply not liking whatever the current product happens to be.  I think the reason to criticize something would be to affect some kind of change on future products.  If there hadn't been as much fan criticism of Die Another Day, one would have to wonder if Casino Royale would have been the next film or if they would have continued going in the direction they were until Brosnan was either too old to continue in the part or no longer wanted to continue in the part.  Maybe, maybe not, but if the fans and the general public had raved about DAD, surely they would have given very serious consideration towards continuing down that route.  I think people want to see a similar reaction from the publishers of the novels.  

 

The real problem is, IMO, that these two novels are the two highest profile Bond releases, in that they are novels which anyone can get a hold of and consume easily.  Both Carte Blanche and Devil May Care have underwhelmed the fan community, and there's more vocal criticism about that because more people have been able to consume the product.  Looking in the other direction, the Young Bond novels have been read by, it would seem, a far fewer number of people.  The ones who have read them generally give them very positive reviews, but they're not as accessible to a wider audience because of either availability or because of the YA genre.  Also look at The Moneypenny Diaries, which has garnered terrific reviews from those on this site, but they're very hard to come by in certain areas, most notably in the US.  It's easier now to get them in the US than it was when they were released, but there was a point where it was almost impossible to get a copy, which limited the amount of exposure and, therefore, praise it would was able to receive.


Edited by tdalton, 18 February 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#7 Tiin007

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:59 PM

The real problem is, IMO, that these two novels are the two highest profile Bond releases, in that they are novels which anyone can get a hold of and consume easily.  Both Carte Blanche and Devil May Care have underwhelmed the fan community, and there's more vocal criticism about that because more people have been able to consume the product.  Looking in the other direction, the Young Bond novels have been read by, it would seem, a far fewer number of people.  The ones who have read them generally give them very positive reviews, but they're not as accessible to a wider audience because of either availability or because of the YA genre.  Also look at The Moneypenny Diaries, which has garnered terrific reviews from those on this site, but they're very hard to come by in certain areas, most notably in the US.  It's easier now to get them in the US than it was when they were released, but there was a point where it was almost impossible to get a copy, which limited the amount of exposure and, therefore, praise it would was able to receive.

 

I think you make a great point there. As I said in my initial post, my problem with both Devil May Care and Carte Blanche had nothing to do with the books themselves-- I actually enjoyed both of them for what they were, and did not find them to be significantly worse than other continuation novel I have read. But I did not enjoy the hype machine that IFP turned on for them. Granted, I can totally understand why IFP wants to open up the Bond novels to a broader audience (more readers = more $$), but part of what made Bond novels (as opposed to the films) so unique was that they seemed to be catered to the fans, not the general reading public. After all, a couple of financial dissapointments from the Bond novels never spelled disaster for the series, whereas the same cannot be said about the films (I don't have any actual proof for that, as the movie series has been financially successful the vast majority of the time, but it's just my view of things).

 

I'm very much not into IFP's recent attempts to make every new Bond novel "the Bond novel to end all Bond novels," despite the fact that I rather enjoy the books. Which is why I'm very concerned about Boyd's novel....



#8 tdalton

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:27 PM

It's not so much the hype machine with regards to the amount of criticism aimed at Carte Blanche  and Devil May Care versus the lack of widespread praise for things like Young Bond and The Moneypenny Diaries so much as it is that CB and DMC are just much more available to both Bond fans around the globe as well as the general public.  Pretty much anyone can walk into a bookstore and buy either CB or DMC or can easily find both titles at a local library, opening up the books to more people with opinions.  If the novel disappoints, as both DMC and CB have, then there's going to be a larger public expression of that disappointment than for something like TMD, which was very difficult to near impossible to obtain for a good number of people, thus limiting any kind of feedback on either. 

 

Plus, there's the issue of CB and DMC being canonical entries in the series.  They're continuing, in the case of DMC, the "story" that Fleming started, or in the case of CB, creating a launching point for a new take on the character.  They're tentpole novels in the series, so when they go bad, it's not a particularly good thing for the franchise, and the fans who care about the literary franchise will voice their displeasure with the hope that whatever the issue was the last time around is not repeated.  YB and TMD, although from all accounts are very good (I can vouch for TMD being excellent, as I recently read the first entry), could be viewed in a different way, in a way that would allow a fan of the literary franchise to simply dismiss them as a worthwhile experiment if for some reason they didn't like them, because they don't affect the overall narrative or future of the "main" series of novels, if that makes any sense.



#9 quantumofsolace

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:56 PM

Anyone whos seen a Bond film can understand any continuation novel. The fans were the only ones buying them because they were released too often and they were never that great. Now they sell because they have big name authors and large gaps between releases therefore creating 'events'. The press went with the hype There were many reports stating that DMC was the first Bond novel since Fleming. Vitriol was bound to happen



#10 marktmurphy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Yes. It's excessive. It's one of the reasons I've drifted away from CBn.

 

But I've noticed knee-jerk hyper criticism from Bond fans about everything. People here seem to fall over themselves to be the first to say a neagitve thing about the latest book, poster, movie, you name it. I think some "fans" feel like they sound more intelligent when they critique. But it's super easy to criticize. It's much harder to express why something is good.

 

But I also think the nature of fan forums has become a place to gripe. The ability to remain anonymous facilitates that. It's why I've moved on to a personal blog and Facebook as a place to share my excitement for all things Bond. Right or wrong, negative people are a drag.

 

 

While that does undeniably happen on the net, I think CBn doesn't actually suffer from that very much. The reaction to Skyfall was hugely positive around here, and as Dustin said, pretty much everyone who talks about Higson's books loves 'em. Reactions to the other continuation books are a bit more mixed because, y'know, they're not as good! :)



Anyone whos seen a Bond film can understand any continuation novel. The fans were the only ones buying them because they were released too often and they were never that great. Now they sell because they have big name authors and large gaps between releases therefore creating 'events'. 

 

Which i think is a very clever way to do it; IFP have been really properly turned on in the last few years and the result is making literary Bond very big and on a par with Film Bond; which he wasn't in the years Gardner and Benson sort of dribbled them out unnoticed by anyone.

 

I'm quietly confident about the next book. I think Boyd could be The Right Man.



#11 Orion

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

both books are ok...but both seem to be missing Bond. DMC is about a food obsessed civil servant, CB is about a thug driven by his sex drive. If either had taken more qualities from the other they would be closer to Bond, but having read interviews  Faulks about Bond, DMC was doomed from day 1. Never has a man more missed the point. Higson got the balance right, would love for  to write more Bond novels.



#12 marktmurphy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

 DMC is about a food obsessed civil servant, 

 

Haha! I love that :)

 

 

 

 

 Higson got the balance right, would love for  to write more Bond novels.

 

Ain't that the truth. He had the Fleming flavour of slightly pervy nastiness just right.

I loved that even recently he admitted that he'd like to do War Bond.