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Type of Villain, not done before


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#31 tdalton

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

I'd love a female villain pulling the strings, like Fiona Volpe, May Day, Xenia Onatopp etc

 

Not just the femme fatale, but the real mastermind before a deadly plot who even crosses paths with Bond a few times.

 

I don't count Elektra as even though she twisted Renard, he did all the work and she just had him do her bidding, and she didn't appear to be evil unitl 2/3rds into the film.

 

I mean this right from the word go we know the villan is a female and not to be crossed!

 

I'd love to see that as well. Such a villain that could match Bond in every way would be ideal, I think.  We've had the more cerebral villains the last few times around, and I think it would be interesting to combine that with a villain that is a physical match for Bond while also being one of the extremely few female villains the franchise has had to date.


Edited by tdalton, 30 May 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#32 hoagy

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:26 PM

ex-US Military and "NOT used before" ?  Please meditate upon TLD...I realize he was not necessarily the prime villain, but he was, after all, in the Big Fight with Bond at the end of TLD -- so, yes, done before....and in doing that thing EON does, the same actor came back two pictures later (in GE) as an ally for Bond.  (Earlier:  wrestler in FRWL becomes co-agent in TB, local Her Majesty's man in YOLT becomes Blofeld himself two pictures later in DAF)

 

As for an assassin as in TMWTGG, using drones, etc., they're all working for various governments and gov't consulting companies now...



#33 Hansen

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:35 AM

A midget (back to my idea of casting Peter Dinklage as the main vilain - not à la Nick Nack)



#34 seawolfnyy

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

 

I'd love a female villain pulling the strings, like Fiona Volpe, May Day, Xenia Onatopp etc

 

Not just the femme fatale, but the real mastermind before a deadly plot who even crosses paths with Bond a few times.

 

I don't count Elektra as even though she twisted Renard, he did all the work and she just had him do her bidding, and she didn't appear to be evil unitl 2/3rds into the film.

 

I mean this right from the word go we know the villan is a female and not to be crossed!

 

I'd love to see that as well. Such a villain that could match Bond in every way would be ideal, I think.  We've had the more cerebral villains the last few times around, and I think it would be interesting to combine that with a villain that is a physical match for Bond while also being one of the extremely few female villains the franchise has had to date.

 

I'd like to see a female villain as well. I think Yvonne Strahovski could pull that off very well, evidenced by her role as Hannah McKay on Dexter.



#35 freemo

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:34 AM

No. Just no. I take mild offense being that I know someone who is autistic and a family member, nephew 6 years old, may be autistic. 

 

Bam! Here's why interesting Bond villains and concepts have been so few and far between in recent years, and will continue to be so. Anything that might offend somebody is out. If the Bond villain were, say, autistic, it'd be said that he is intented to be representative of all those with autism, etc. There's so much you can't do when this mindset exists. Pastly, bland Brit / European traitors only.



#36 Guy Haines

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:40 AM

Congress. 

Oddly enough, I've started watching a fictional congressional villain - I've got the first series of the US version of "House of Cards". In the original UK version  party whip Francis Urquhart murders his way to the top, becoming UK Prime Minister - now there's a thought, a Bond villain who happens to be a PM! (Except it's been done before - LALD's Dr Kananga, PM of San Monique.)

 

I'm only two episodes into the US version of House of Cards, but Urquhart's US opposite number Francis Underwood is already making villainous progress. And he's played by an actor who was for quite a while the red top tabloids' default "next Bond villain" - you've guessed it, Kevin Spacey! ;)



#37 Guardian Viper

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

I kinda want to see M sending Bond to investigate shady leader(s?) of some PMC (=private military company). Lots of cool possibilities there due to PMC's legal positions.



#38 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:55 AM

Bond's never crossed swords with religion - he's not the religious type, but a religious zealot/second coming fantasist who believes he's the one could inspire some great dialogue.

 

How does Bond see his job and how is it seen when thrust into a religious circles?

 

This also opens the door to great henchmen/women who are fanatical believers rather than just thugs and profiteers.

 

We've had the gamut of egomaniacs who want to alter the world for financial or secular ideological reasons, but not one who believes he's bringing the apocalypse etc.

 

We touched on this with Drax' spiel about a new Adam & Eve (MR), but he wasn't a religious nut, just using it as a metaphor. LK had a religious cult of sorts, but this was merely a sub plot and a front for drug running. I'm talking about a full religious cult with a leader who believes he's the second coming.

 

I can just imagine the awkward wit of a concerned member of the Vatican being present at M's briefing. It's getting slightly into Dan Brown territory, but so long as they let that hack no where near the script then that's fine ;)



#39 DamnCoffee

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

Still leaning dramatically on Peter Dinkledge. I think he'd be great. A scheming government dwarf. We've never had that before. Fantastic actor. 



#40 coco1997

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:19 PM

Bam! Here's why interesting Bond villains and concepts have been so few and far between in recent years, and will continue to be so. Anything that might offend somebody is out. If the Bond villain were, say, autistic, it'd be said that he is intented to be representative of all those with autism, etc. There's so much you can't do when this mindset exists. Pastly, bland Brit / European traitors only.

Precisely. I guess that means we should never have another black/African-American villain at the risk of offending blacks/African-Americans.



#41 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

 

Bam! Here's why interesting Bond villains and concepts have been so few and far between in recent years, and will continue to be so. Anything that might offend somebody is out. If the Bond villain were, say, autistic, it'd be said that he is intented to be representative of all those with autism, etc. There's so much you can't do when this mindset exists. Pastly, bland Brit / European traitors only.

Precisely. I guess that means we should never have another black/African-American villain at the risk of offending blacks/African-Americans.

 

Unless Tarantino directs.



#42 Joey Bond

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

In light of whistleblowers in the news like Edward Snowden, Julian Assange and Bradley Manning, how about hacker type "villains" that are trying to expose the British government's secrets to the public. I mean Silva was also a hacker type but it was clear he was evil- blowing up MI6, derailing trains, trying to kill M. I'm talking about a villain who is hacking into MI6 and wants to expose secrets to the public that MI6 is spying on British citizens. 

 

That would certainly raise questions about Bond's morality, which side he should be fighting for. You could even have Bond doubting himself whether he's fighting for the right side.

 

I doubt it will happen though since you always want Bond to be a good guy and it could make Bond suddenly look obsolete and people might end up cheering for the "villain" instead.



#43 Revelator

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:15 PM

And Bond hasn't really had a straight up English villain, though that tends to be Hollywood's trend this last decade. 

 

An English villain would be very Un-Bondian. As Kingsley Amis noted, in Bond's world nobody who is English does anything wrong. There are very few exceptions in the books (the minor villain Major Smythe) and films (Carver from TND) and it should stay that way. Bond is about British pride, not Hollywood practices.

 

 

I kinda want to see M sending Bond to investigate shady leader(s?) of some PMC (=private military company). Lots of cool possibilities there due to PMC's legal positions.

 

I think that's a very promising idea. Those are real-life characters with genuine villainous potential and military hardware. Private armies are a longtime staple of Bond's world, and they're tried and trusted story elements. Bond versus Blackwater!


Edited by Revelator, 17 July 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#44 JamesPup

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:51 AM

I read that John Travolta wants to play the villain in a Bond movie. Maybe someone could come up with a role for him? I read under the topic "Who would make a decent Blofeld" and comment by StrangleTheCat, that Travolta would make a modern Blofeld.


Edited by JamesPup, 27 July 2013 - 02:24 AM.


#45 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

An older man, as The Shark as suggested in the other thread, would probably be best.

 

I like the idea of a female villain - but there is the problem of awkwardness in any physical confrontation.  Or the press having a field day writing about mysoginistic Bond acting out his mommy-issues.

 

Of all villains in the Craig era, so far, I enjoyed Silva the most, then Greene and Le Chiffre.  They were all rather different types.  And I hope that Mendes will want to vary this again in Bond 24.



#46 Guy Haines

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:31 AM

I've suggested this as a plot idea many moons ago on a different Cbn thread, but.... we've had villains want to destroy the world in order to save it, such as Stromberg and his new aquatic civilisation, or the Drax of the film and his space master race plan. But they both wanted to preserve at least a small section of humanity whilst wiping out those they considered the "dregs".

 

Suppose, however, Bond took on a villain - a scientist, maybe an expert in viruses and diseases - who wanted to wipe out all the human race full stop? Someone who had created a mutant strain of Ebola or Flu or whatever with the intention of spreading it in such a way that it would be unstoppable and allow no time to find an antidote.

 

(Before anyone mentions "OHMSS", Blofeld was using his biological warfare plan as a bargaining chip, not to end all humanity.)

 

Why would this villain want to do this? Well, he considers the human race itself to be the biggest threat to the continued survival of Planet Earth - in short, he's an eco-warrior of the most extreme kind imaginable. And just to establish a link with Fleming source material, he owns a garden of poisonous plants which has become a mecca for the suicidal and, given his hatred of his own species, his pastime in between planning the end of humanity is watching individuals finish themselves off in his garden of death.

 

Is that a twisted enough Bond villain?



#47 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:19 PM

The problem with "virus" films is that there is not too much one can do with the basic concept.  It´s always the same situation with people getting sick, having to be contained, someone with a vial of the virus running around - and even if the hero is infected, of course, there will be an antidote at the end.  We´ve had too much of this already. "MI:2" used it, "24" had a whole season to tackle this (in a rather good way), "Outbreak" did it extremely well, and "WWZ" recently tried the same in the Zombie genre.

 

And a villain who wants to kill off all humanity, meaning even himself - somehow that strikes me as too outlandish.  I prefer a villain who wants to profit from a situation he creates, sacrificing others - and Bond enjoying himself, in a tux, not a hasmat suit.  ;)


Edited by SecretAgentFan, 27 July 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#48 Guy Haines

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

I would consider Drax to be a far right Neo-Nazi type. His plan was to kill off everyone in the world he deemed unfit and create a master race. Who does that remind you of? Also, the Drax from the novel was a Nazi.

I was thinking about this tonight. On screen, at least, Bond has never taken on Nazis. And I don't mean the screen version of Drax and his "master race" plan, but the full on swastika flag flying type.

 

It might seem out of date, yet if you look at the world today, the heirs of fascism are resurgent in certain places.

 

I can understand why the producers may be reluctant, and yet it never stopped "Nazis as villains" being used by others. I'm a fan of those ITC TV series from the 1960s - The Saint, The Champions, Department S and the like - and every so often there would be an episode in which some madman would attempt to create a "Fourth Reich", only to be foiled in less than sixty minutes by our hero. There was even an episode of Star Trek in which the crew came across a planet organised - right down to the flag and the uniforms - on Nazi lines.

 

Maybe the chance was missed by leaving the film of Moonraker until 1979. If it had been made in the mid sixties, and by the book, when memories of the Second World War were still very fresh, the result would have been interesting.



#49 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:02 AM

I've suggested this as a plot idea many moons ago on a different Cbn thread, but.... we've had villains want to destroy the world in order to save it, such as Stromberg and his new aquatic civilisation, or the Drax of the film and his space master race plan. But they both wanted to preserve at least a small section of humanity whilst wiping out those they considered the "dregs".

 

Suppose, however, Bond took on a villain - a scientist, maybe an expert in viruses and diseases - who wanted to wipe out all the human race full stop? Someone who had created a mutant strain of Ebola or Flu or whatever with the intention of spreading it in such a way that it would be unstoppable and allow no time to find an antidote.

 

(Before anyone mentions "OHMSS", Blofeld was using his biological warfare plan as a bargaining chip, not to end all humanity.)

 

Why would this villain want to do this? Well, he considers the human race itself to be the biggest threat to the continued survival of Planet Earth - in short, he's an eco-warrior of the most extreme kind imaginable. And just to establish a link with Fleming source material, he owns a garden of poisonous plants which has become a mecca for the suicidal and, given his hatred of his own species, his pastime in between planning the end of humanity is watching individuals finish themselves off in his garden of death.

 

Is that a twisted enough Bond villain?

 

I rather like this idea and do hope that one day they will be able to include a castle of death, equipped with it's very own 'garden'. Perhaps, this man is part of a secret society (Illuminati-esque) made up of very powerful and rich people across the globe. Perhaps, his setup is the tool that'll get the job done while the others have been scheming and doing their parts all along. Say, MI6 and other agencies have only just discovered this plan, in it's final stages of utilizing these poisons. Building off of your idea but adding the idea of eliminating the majority so the minority can continue to build their empires and shape the world they want. 


Edited by Trevelyan 006, 08 August 2013 - 05:02 AM.


#50 Guy Haines

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

 

I've suggested this as a plot idea many moons ago on a different Cbn thread, but.... we've had villains want to destroy the world in order to save it, such as Stromberg and his new aquatic civilisation, or the Drax of the film and his space master race plan. But they both wanted to preserve at least a small section of humanity whilst wiping out those they considered the "dregs".

 

Suppose, however, Bond took on a villain - a scientist, maybe an expert in viruses and diseases - who wanted to wipe out all the human race full stop? Someone who had created a mutant strain of Ebola or Flu or whatever with the intention of spreading it in such a way that it would be unstoppable and allow no time to find an antidote.

 

(Before anyone mentions "OHMSS", Blofeld was using his biological warfare plan as a bargaining chip, not to end all humanity.)

 

Why would this villain want to do this? Well, he considers the human race itself to be the biggest threat to the continued survival of Planet Earth - in short, he's an eco-warrior of the most extreme kind imaginable. And just to establish a link with Fleming source material, he owns a garden of poisonous plants which has become a mecca for the suicidal and, given his hatred of his own species, his pastime in between planning the end of humanity is watching individuals finish themselves off in his garden of death.

 

Is that a twisted enough Bond villain?

 

I rather like this idea and do hope that one day they will be able to include a castle of death, equipped with it's very own 'garden'. Perhaps, this man is part of a secret society (Illuminati-esque) made up of very powerful and rich people across the globe. Perhaps, his setup is the tool that'll get the job done while the others have been scheming and doing their parts all along. Say, MI6 and other agencies have only just discovered this plan, in it's final stages of utilizing these poisons. Building off of your idea but adding the idea of eliminating the majority so the minority can continue to build their empires and shape the world they want. 

 

I had a rather unusual twist on this in mind. Certainly, our deranged scientist would need backing, and suppose a group such as you suggest is behind him. But, whereas, say, a "Quantum" or "SPECTRE" would use a scheme such as this to blackmail the world - as in the film OHMSS - our madman in the white lab coat actually means it. And his backers have lost control of him. Now it hardly benefits a secret society to destroy the world - there would be nothing left to extort or secretly conquer. So, they deliberately let the "good guys" - Bond, MI6, CIA etc - go after their rogue scientist, feeding them information about him but covering their tracks as they do - Bond only realises at the very end that he's been secretly aided by, say, Quantum, who are as worried about this mad man as the side of the angels. I can just imagine someone like Mr White turning up - just as Bond is about to finish the mad scientist off - administering the coup de gras. "Money is important to our organisation. Insanity isn't." Bang, and our mad man is gone.



#51 archer1949

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:03 PM

Bond's never crossed swords with religion - he's not the religious type, but a religious zealot/second coming fantasist who believes he's the one could inspire some great dialogue.

 

How does Bond see his job and how is it seen when thrust into a religious circles?

 

This also opens the door to great henchmen/women who are fanatical believers rather than just thugs and profiteers.

 

We've had the gamut of egomaniacs who want to alter the world for financial or secular ideological reasons, but not one who believes he's bringing the apocalypse etc.

 

We touched on this with Drax' spiel about a new Adam & Eve (MR), but he wasn't a religious nut, just using it as a metaphor. LK had a religious cult of sorts, but this was merely a sub plot and a front for drug running. I'm talking about a full religious cult with a leader who believes he's the second coming.

 

I can just imagine the awkward wit of a concerned member of the Vatican being present at M's briefing. It's getting slightly into Dan Brown territory, but so long as they let that hack no where near the script then that's fine ;)

This would be VERY interesting. There is nothing scarier than a true believer 

 

I knew a guy who grew up in a hard core Protestant Evangelical cult that was convinced that if they could get to Jerusalem, they could kick start the Second Coming by blowing up the Dome Of The Rock rebuilding a new Temple of Solomon. They spent a lot of money and effort trying to breed a perfectly spotless white calf which they would  sacrifice at the foot of this new Temple.

 

In the late 1990's a couple of them got as far as Tel Aviv before they were caught by Israeli police and deported.

 

Now imagine that same kind of fanaticism, but with money, numbers, resources and influence.

 

Perfect Bond material. No need for outlandish Dan Brown-like conspiracies, just take real life and run with it. 


Edited by archer1949, 14 September 2013 - 11:04 PM.


#52 Guy Haines

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:56 AM

 

Bond's never crossed swords with religion - he's not the religious type, but a religious zealot/second coming fantasist who believes he's the one could inspire some great dialogue.

 

How does Bond see his job and how is it seen when thrust into a religious circles?

 

This also opens the door to great henchmen/women who are fanatical believers rather than just thugs and profiteers.

 

We've had the gamut of egomaniacs who want to alter the world for financial or secular ideological reasons, but not one who believes he's bringing the apocalypse etc.

 

We touched on this with Drax' spiel about a new Adam & Eve (MR), but he wasn't a religious nut, just using it as a metaphor. LK had a religious cult of sorts, but this was merely a sub plot and a front for drug running. I'm talking about a full religious cult with a leader who believes he's the second coming.

 

I can just imagine the awkward wit of a concerned member of the Vatican being present at M's briefing. It's getting slightly into Dan Brown territory, but so long as they let that hack no where near the script then that's fine ;)

This would be VERY interesting. There is nothing scarier than a true believer 

 

I knew a guy who grew up in a hard core Protestant Evangelical cult that was convinced that if they could get to Jerusalem, they could kick start the Second Coming by blowing up the Dome Of The Rock rebuilding a new Temple of Solomon. They spent a lot of money and effort trying to breed a perfectly spotless white calf which they would  sacrifice at the foot of this new Temple.

 

In the late 1990's a couple of them got as far as Tel Aviv before they were caught by Israeli police and deported.

 

Now imagine that same kind of fanaticism, but with money, numbers, resources and influence.

 

Perfect Bond material. No need for outlandish Dan Brown-like conspiracies, just take real life and run with it. 

 

He's never crossed swords with religious fanatics in the films, unless you count the followers of Baron Samedi in LALD, and that was more about power and control than belief. But he did encounter a "religious" organisation in the John Gardner novel "Scorpius" - a group of fanatics led by a "Father Valentine" a.k.a. Vladimir Scorpius who went around assassinating world leaders.

 

The Bond movie producers have always been careful about who they cast as bad guys, tending to go with apolitical groups such as SPECTRE, deranged billionaire fanatics, or contemporary villains the overwhelming majority of the audience would agree are villains. Crossing the line into religious territory, even fringe religions, might be a step too far for them if even one member of an audience might think a "religious" villain had a point. In the 1970s a storyline was offered for TSWLM in which a group of young anarchist terrorists took over SPECTRE. Quite apart from the legal minefield of who owned the rights to "SPECTRE", the producers were wary of a plot which might have left some in the audience having sympathy with the devil.



#53 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:16 PM

 

 

Bond's never crossed swords with religion - he's not the religious type, but a religious zealot/second coming fantasist who believes he's the one could inspire some great dialogue.

 

How does Bond see his job and how is it seen when thrust into a religious circles?

 

This also opens the door to great henchmen/women who are fanatical believers rather than just thugs and profiteers.

 

We've had the gamut of egomaniacs who want to alter the world for financial or secular ideological reasons, but not one who believes he's bringing the apocalypse etc.

 

We touched on this with Drax' spiel about a new Adam & Eve (MR), but he wasn't a religious nut, just using it as a metaphor. LK had a religious cult of sorts, but this was merely a sub plot and a front for drug running. I'm talking about a full religious cult with a leader who believes he's the second coming.

 

I can just imagine the awkward wit of a concerned member of the Vatican being present at M's briefing. It's getting slightly into Dan Brown territory, but so long as they let that hack no where near the script then that's fine ;)

This would be VERY interesting. There is nothing scarier than a true believer 

 

I knew a guy who grew up in a hard core Protestant Evangelical cult that was convinced that if they could get to Jerusalem, they could kick start the Second Coming by blowing up the Dome Of The Rock rebuilding a new Temple of Solomon. They spent a lot of money and effort trying to breed a perfectly spotless white calf which they would  sacrifice at the foot of this new Temple.

 

In the late 1990's a couple of them got as far as Tel Aviv before they were caught by Israeli police and deported.

 

Now imagine that same kind of fanaticism, but with money, numbers, resources and influence.

 

Perfect Bond material. No need for outlandish Dan Brown-like conspiracies, just take real life and run with it. 

 

He's never crossed swords with religious fanatics in the films, unless you count the followers of Baron Samedi in LALD, and that was more about power and control than belief. But he did encounter a "religious" organisation in the John Gardner novel "Scorpius" - a group of fanatics led by a "Father Valentine" a.k.a. Vladimir Scorpius who went around assassinating world leaders.

 

The Bond movie producers have always been careful about who they cast as bad guys, tending to go with apolitical groups such as SPECTRE, deranged billionaire fanatics, or contemporary villains the overwhelming majority of the audience would agree are villains. Crossing the line into religious territory, even fringe religions, might be a step too far for them if even one member of an audience might think a "religious" villain had a point. In the 1970s a storyline was offered for TSWLM in which a group of young anarchist terrorists took over SPECTRE. Quite apart from the legal minefield of who owned the rights to "SPECTRE", the producers were wary of a plot which might have left some in the audience having sympathy with the devil.

 

 

I see your point, but that was the 70s and in this new, riskier era of Bond i think it could be challenging enough to inspire a great yarn for Craig's ice cold, damaged Bond. After all he did use the Monk/hitman analogy in CR so there's president in the new Bond for religion. Obviously that's tenuous, and i'm sure you're right in that Eon wouldn't risk it, but perhaps post SF it's more about Craig, Mendes and Logon selling an idea, than Eon automatically poo-pooing one 


Edited by Odd Jobbies, 16 September 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#54 dtuba

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:46 AM

After having seen the trailer for Tom Hanks' Captain Phillips, I thought: how about a modern-day scenario involving pirates? It could be a story idea if they decide to use the original Mr. Big character from the LALD novel. Not that they would, or should, remake LALD mind you.



#55 Guy Haines

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

Well folks, we now have the European election results, and all kinds of mavericks have risen without trace to top the polls, including in the UK. Which set me wondering. Suppose a future Bond adversary was a popular, populist politician (doesn't much matter in which country) who seems to have the answers for everything at a time when the mainstream politicians don't, but hides a dark agenda - and only Bond is on to him or her. Even the authorities are taken in by this character. A bit like the Sir Hugo Drax of the novel Moonraker, minus the rocket.