124 replies to this topic

[B5Erik]

...IMO has to be Goldfinger.

Bond doesn't do much except to get caught and go along for the ride. He has to be rescued by others and someone else saves the day at the end. Add to that some rather drab and boring settings and a horribly miscast Felix Leiter and Goldfinger isn't nearly as good as most of the other films in the series.

What it does have going for it are some iconic scenes ("Do you expect me to talk?" "No, I expect you to die!"), a good performance from Connery, one of the more memorable henchmen (Oddjob), the infamous Pussy Galore, and the iconic Aston Martin. And maybe you could say one of the more iconic bad guys in the series, but that's mostly due to the, "I expect you do die," line.

But overall this is an overrated movie. I really don't get the Goldfinger love that many Bond fans have. It's good, but not great. Most Bond movies are better...

Edited by B5Erik, 25 November 2012 - 08:20 PM.

[tdalton]

I very much agree, although I'd go further and probably say that it's really not even a good movie. It has a few moments (well, two to be exact, the PTS and "Do you expect me to talk?"), but aside from that it's just dull.

[S K Y F A L L]

I think this is a thread already somewhere but I'll say it again, CASINO ROYALE is the most overrated Bond film. It takes a big man to walk though drywall.

[plankattack]

I think GF is a good film, but I do feel it's over-rated - it's continually held up as the definitive Bond film and I would offer that the series has spent pretty much its entire existence since, trying to create GF-moments.

I agree that Bond is pretty much held hostage to events around him, though I don't find that that's a problem with the story - Bond tumbles into GF's plot, hangs around long enough to thwart it; he has no choice as he as no clue what GF's up to so the best thing is to stay alive until something does happen.

But it is a problem with the execution of the story. To explain: Goldfinger is a compelling villain, but none of the other characters are interesting, whether it be Pussy Galore (other than her name, I find her a completely uninteresting Bond girl - both Tatiana and Domino on the film either side are more complex), or Felix Leiter. Now Leiter has never really been given his due in any of the films (CR introduces him well, but the relationship is yet to be explored) but in GF he's just, well, just there.

Bond being swept along by the plot isn't a problem for me - what is the problem is that the other characters, GF aside, just aren't interesting enough so while Bond is in a cell, stuck on a plane, or chained to a bomb, the other characters don't hold my attention. Other than GF's briefing, the fifteen or so minutes with the Mafia guys and Solo is a just a drag on the film. And Leiter and his pals on the look-out - yeah, like we give a s(*& what you're doing or whether we think/care that you could.

GF is very much style over substance, and while it's very stylish indeed, there isn't that much there. It's not a bad film in any way but personally there are 5 or 6 films that I rate higher (including TB that follows it).

[seawolfnyy]

Eh, I would probably say Goldeneye. It is incredibly OTT and I think much of the love of this film is confused with the N64 game. GF I think is still one of the benchmarks. As for the fact that Bond is captured for much of the film, the same thing happens in the novel.
And let's not forget this classic scene:
Bond: You win Goldfinger.
Goldfinger: It seems I am too good for you.
Bond: Wait, you play a Slazenger 1 don't you?
Goldfinger: Yes, why?
Bond: This is a Slazenger 7. Here's my Pinfold Hearts, you must've played the wrong ball on the 18th fairway. We are playing strict rules, so I'm afraid you lose the hole and the match.

Edited by seawolfnyy, 25 November 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[thecasinoroyale]

'Goldfinger' all the way.

It has lots of iconic elements of the Bond forumla, but if they were all in 'You Only Live Twice', that would be the iconic film that 'Goldfinger' is.

As a Bond film story-wise, it's ok, but nothing great. I find it a little boring in places and dragging it's heels a little, especially at Auric Enterprises and Auric's stud farm.

Don't get me wrong, I love Connery looking totally in the shoes as 007, with a great meaty selection of villains and a good musical score but in terms of 'the Bond to beat them all' and 'setting the bar', it has to be this over-rated film.

I can name other Bonds I'd watch for fun, excitement and enjoyment than 'Goldfinger'.

[tdalton]

As for the fact that Bond is captured for much of the film, the same thing happens in the novel.

Just because it happened in the novel doesn't mean it should have happened in the film. Not everything that Fleming put down on the page was perfect, and for all of the times that EON has taken Fleming's titles and done something completely different with them, I don't understand why the need was felt to have Bond simply sitting in a jail cell and other various places of captivity simply because that's what happens in the novel. This was an instance where some major changes should have been made.

[coco1997]

While I don't think any of the Connery films are terribly over-rated, I do feel that a lot of people tend to overrate some of his films simply because Connery is in them. For instance, the Chicago Tribune recently ranked all 23 EON-produced Bond films and included all six of Connery's films in the top 10, which I found ludicrous given how awful DAF is.

[freemo]

How overrated can GOLDFINGER be if everyone thinks it's overrated?

[B5Erik]

How overrated can GOLDFINGER be if everyone thinks it's overrated?

A fair question.

When a lot of Top 10 Bond Movie lists by both fans and critics include Goldfinger at or near the top I'd say it's fair to call it overrated since it isn't as good as most other Bond movies. IMO, of course.

[solace]

Goldfinger was the film that set the whole Bond thing up. Q was in his lab handing out his gadgets. A big bloke with a hat that would do for you. The villain was larger than life and the leading lady was unforgetable. You had a girl covered in gold paint and of course a car that ripped up wheels, shot baddies and fired the odd dude through the roof.

Gf was, imo, the template for the whole francise and if you just have to look at skyfall to see the reintroduction of so many of its elements

[B5Erik]

Goldfinger was the film that set the whole Bond thing up. Q was in his lab handing out his gadgets. A big bloke with a hat that would do for you. The villain was larger than life and the leading lady was unforgetable. You had a girl covered in gold paint and of course a car that ripped up wheels, shot baddies and fired the odd dude through the roof.

Gf was, imo, the template for the whole francise...

All that stuff you mention IS iconic. But those are just moments in the movie, and for the 10-15 minutes in between each of those moments the movie is rather dull and drags. The STORY is weak. The script is weak. The casting (aside from Bond, Pussy Galore, Goldfinger, and Oddjob) is fairly weak, too. It's just a bland movie when you take out the 15 or so minutes of iconic stuff.

And that's why it's overrated. Again, IMO.

[AMC Hornet]

Skyfall.

Not that I hate it or anything, but it's hardly Thunderball or TSWLM in terms of scope.

I'm optimistic that B24 will be, though,

[Turn]

Goldfinger reminds me of the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. It's something we're told is iconic and changed everything, especially among certain groups of people, but it seems very divisive as a whole. Like many others, I understand why it's iconic, but not being there in the moment it hit makes it harder to agree it's the best.

About 30 years ago as I was becoming a huge Bond fanatic and being told and reading how GF was the series' best. I hadn't seen it in years despite its popularity and ABC finally showed it one night. Granted it was cut to ribbons, even eliminating the precredits and gunbarrel, commercials, etc. it just felt like "that's it, this is the best?" And while I've seen other films such as DN and FRWL go up, GF is still just there in the middle of the pack for me. Great villains, just not a whole lot else there for me.

[Hockey Mask]

Can I agree that Goldfinger is overrated and still rate Goldfinger number one on my list of Bond movies? If I can, I do. If not, nevermind.

[kronsteen63]

This contradicts a post I made a few months ago ranking all the Bond films, but it had been a few years since I'd sat down and watched all of them. Now having done so in preparation for Skyfall, I'd have to agree that Goldfinger is the most overrated. I had always led myself to believe it was my favorite, but that's because of all the iconic moments already mentioned in this thread. When it comes down to it, it's a little too lighthearted and campy for my tastes. Just look at the part when Pussy Galore's flying circus "poisons" the area surrounding Fort Knox.

That being said, I think right now Skyfall is very overrated due to all the excessive media hype. This may eventually die down, though, as people might just be overly excited over the fact that it's the newest Bond film.

I think they are both great films and have done wonders for the series as a whole. They just don't even come close to touching my top 5 faves.

Edited by kronsteen63, 26 November 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[tdalton]

That being said, I think right now Skyfall is very overrated due to all the excessive media hype. This may eventually die down, though, as people might just be overly excited over the fact that it's the newest Bond film.

I would tend to agree with this. I have yet to talk to a person offline who thinks that SKYFALL is anything more than just "OK". All of the hype surrounding SKYFALL, and especially all of this nonsense about how it's going to garner all of these major Oscar nominations, is getting a bit out of hand.

I still give the nod to GOLDFINGER as the most overrated Bond film, but I'd say that both CASINO ROYALE and SKYFALL are right behind it.

[Trevelyan 006]

I'm going to outside the box here (and probably receive a storm of personal message hate letters), and say that The Spy Who Loved Me is (in my opinion) a bit overrated. It is often considered as THE quintessential James Bond film. I consider it one of Moore's best Bond films but, for me, the buck stops there.

MOST overrated overall though? Today, definitely Goldfinger.

[archer1949]

Goldfinger for me. He's just THERE. A peripheral character in his own story. I kept waiting for him to do something and he never really does.

TSWLM and Goldeneye are up there for me as well. Both are silly and formulaic as all hell.

[Trevelyan 006]

TSWLM and Goldeneye are up there for me as well. Both are silly and formulaic as all hell.

50/50. I'll take it.

[B5Erik]

I watched Goldfinger on Blu Ray for the first time just now (finished it about a half hour ago) with my 12 year old daughter (I have owned the blu ray for years but never got around to watching it), and I've got to say that it looks good, it's got lots of style, but it is exactly as I remembered - Bond doesn't really do anything. Felix Leiter is horribly miscast, Pussy Galore and her flying circus save the day along with a U.S. agent who turns off the bomb - Bond keeps getting captured and recaptured but doesn't do anything but convince Pussy to contact the U.S. agencies involved and switch the gas cannisters.

As I noted before, it's got a bunch of great, iconic stuff - but those iconic moments are interspersed here and there in an otherwise dull movie. My daughter used the word, "Boring," about 15 times while we were watching it. She loved Skyfall and Casino Royale, she liked The Living Daylights and Licence To Kill a lot, and she really had a good time with The Spy Who Loved Me and Tomorrow Never Dies. She even liked You Only Live Twice - but Goldfinger? She rated it a 4 out of 10. Oh, well. She may grow to appreciate it as she gets older. Even I'd give it a 6.5 or a 7 out of 10 (I'd just rank most Bond films higher than that).

But, yeah, it's not nearly the best Bond movie, so because it gets so much praise and is ranked so highly by so many (both fans and critics), I'd have to say that Goldfinger is seriously overrated. Moreso than any other Bond movie.

Edited by B5Erik, 26 November 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[jaguar007]

I think this is a thread already somewhere but I'll say it again, CASINO ROYALE is the most overrated Bond film. It takes a big man to walk though drywall.

Not really, I know a girl who stumbled and fell through unset drywall, it it not that tough.

As Solace said, GF gets so much recognition because it really is the blueprint for most of the films that followed. It was the film that set the Bond series on fire and I for one think it is a damned fun film. I watched it with my 8 year old son and he loved it. It is the most iconic Bond film for a reason.

[seawolfnyy]

As Solace said, GF gets so much recognition because it really is the blueprint for most of the films that followed. It was the film that set the Bond series on fire and I for one think it is a damned fun film. I watched it with my 8 year old son and he loved it. It is the most iconic Bond film for a reason.

Agreed. I think the pacing is great and it moves fast, granted it's only 110 minutes but still. Felix is awful, but otherwise I think the cast is great. Like Jaguar said, it's iconic for a reason.

[Iceskater101]

Can I agree that Goldfinger is overrated and still rate Goldfinger number one on my list of Bond movies? If I can, I do. If not, nevermind.

This is actually how I feel. I agree it is completely overrated, but I do still rate it as one of my top favorite James Bond films

[sharpshooter]

I would tend to agree with this. I have yet to talk to a person offline who thinks that SKYFALL is anything more than just "OK". All of the hype surrounding SKYFALL, and especially all of this nonsense about how it's going to garner all of these major Oscar nominations, is getting a bit out of hand.

I still give the nod to GOLDFINGER as the most overrated Bond film, but I'd say that both CASINO ROYALE and SKYFALL are right behind it.

You might have answered this somewhere else, but have you seen Skyfall yet tdalton?

[tdalton]

I would tend to agree with this. I have yet to talk to a person offline who thinks that SKYFALL is anything more than just "OK". All of the hype surrounding SKYFALL, and especially all of this nonsense about how it's going to garner all of these major Oscar nominations, is getting a bit out of hand.

I still give the nod to GOLDFINGER as the most overrated Bond film, but I'd say that both CASINO ROYALE and SKYFALL are right behind it.

You might have answered this somewhere else, but have you seen Skyfall yet tdalton?

No.

I feel reasonably confident in SKYFALL's overrated label simply because I don't think that any film, Bond or otherwise, could live up to the almost obscene amount of hype that SKYFALL has received. Admittedly, my enthusiasm for SKYFALL is pretty low at the moment, given that, as I've said elsewhere, I've yet to come across anyone in real life who particularly liked the film, and this is coming from people whose opinions I respect regarding films and the Bond series. I actually asked someone if they thought SKYFALL deserved a Best Picture nomination, even just a nominal one with no chance of actually winning, and that idea was literally laughed at.

[Double-0-Seven]

I quite literally made this same thread four days ago:

http://debrief.comma...-in-goldfinger/

It's only a couple topics down! For shame, for shame.

[B5Erik]

I quite literally made this same thread four days ago:

http://debrief.comma...-in-goldfinger/

It's only a couple topics down! For shame, for shame.

Well, that's more a critique of the movie. I'm specifically addressing the issue of it being completely overrated. That word/idea didn't even come up in that topic, so I made it the focal point of this one.

But I see from that thread that you most likely agree that Goldfinger is overrated.

[crheath]

I totally disagree that Goldfinger is overrated. But then again, the Bond film that is going to be discussed as overrated is naturally going to be the one that is considered by most people the best one to start out with (does anyone call AVTAK overrated?).

Goldfinger was only the 3^rd film in the series and yet it invented all the clichés. It was the first Bond film to have so many elements that would be utilized in the films preceding it:

First movie to have an opening teaser action sequence that works on it’s own.
First movie to have the gimmicked up car.
First movie to have the big, mad super villain.
First movie to have the indestructible henchman (Oddjob).
First movie to have the bomb ticking countdown.
First movie to have the big climactic shootout.
First movie to have a female lead to stand up to Bond.
First movie to have a sense of humor.
First movie to have the big glamorous Ken Adam sets.

Goldfinger perfected this formula and every Bond film has more or less repeated it only bigger. This is why people who have seen the films out of order don’t see how original it was. It’s like watching the Rocky sequels before the original Rocky.

[SecretAgentFan]

I guess you just had to be there....