28 replies to this topic

[RMc2]

Now that Daniel Craig has three films under his belt and is confirmed for another two Bond films, with John Logan set to write both of them, I was thinking about the patterns of the different actors' films and something interesting came up when comparing Craig's films with the others'...


1) Casino Royale (2006)
A faithful adaptation of Fleming's novel of the same name, with a back-to-basics approach that eschews gadgets in favour of grit. The longest film in the series to date, with a controversial choice of lead actor. Bond is physically and emotionally vulnerable in this film, falling in love with the Bond girl. She dies at the end.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969)
A faithful adaptation of Fleming's novel of the same name, with a back-to-basics approach that eschews gadgets in favour of grit. The longest film in the series to date, with a controversial choice of lead actor. Bond is physically and emotionally vulnerable in this film, falling in love with the Bond girl. She dies at the end.

2) Quantum of Solace (2008)
This actor's dark, very violent second film that has Bond going rogue to enact revenge. It has its core of devoted defenders, but nobody really likes it. Often criticised for not feeling like a true Bond film.

Licence to Kill (1989)
This actor's dark, very violent second film that has Bond going rogue to enact revenge. It has its core of devoted defenders, but nobody really likes it. Often criticised for not feeling like a true Bond film.

3) SkyFall (2012)
This Bond's third and funniest entry. Often brilliant, it is notable for attempting to explore Bond's psyche. Boasts a strong villain who is memorable but arguably underused. Also boasts this Bond's first gadget car.

The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
This Bond's third and funniest entry. Often brilliant, it is notable for attempting to explore Bond's psyche. Boasts a strong villain who is memorable but arguably underused. Also boasts this Bond's first gadget car.



Admittedly that last one's a bit of a stretch, but SkyFall felt very Moore-ish to me.
So by that comparison Craig has made a Lazenby Bond, a Dalton Bond and a Moore Bond. What do you think is next? A Brosnan Bond with machine guns blazing or a Connery Bond with, er, overlooked rape? I'm hoping for Craig's From Russia With Love equivalent.

[Author's Note: don't take this seriously!]

Edited by RMc, 22 November 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Bond... Raybond]

If your model is correct, and they use a Connery film as a model for DC's fourth, would not a Thunderball-type movie be a better fit? And with the rumours regarding Blofeld....could you be right than you know?

Edited by Bond... Raybond, 22 November 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Well, you probably could also argue that a pattern might only be visible if you compare one actor´s tenure with another one´s.

The second film is always a difficult one, with Connery having the clear advantage of a great original story and an extremely hungry audience for this kind of entertainment.

But the third film, for every actor who had the fortune to enjoy one, is always one that has the actor more relaxed and established in the role.

I don´t think that SKYFALL and TSWLM have a lot in common aside from that.


Concerning QOS and LTK - well, I guess it is a coincidence that both feature Bond going rogue.

[tdalton]

I can't say that I really see any pattern here. Like SecretAgentFan said, if this were a case of one actor's tenure following a similar arc to Craig's, then there would be a pattern, but it doesn't work if it's just films cherry-picked from the franchise's 50-year history. I could probably go back and do something similar for each of the Bonds.

The only pattern that really holds throughout the series, from Connery to Craig, is that the films are beholden to a checklist and a formula.

[coco1997]

TSWLM tried to explore Bond's psyche?

[SecretAgentFan]

He was in a jolly good mindset those days.

[RMc2]

TSWLM tried to explore Bond's psyche?

Actually, yeah it does: remember Bond's answer when Amasova asks him if he killed her lover? And his reaction to the mention of his wife? And the way he ruthlessly kills Sandor and Stromberg? The emphasis is definitely on 'tried', but of the Moore films, this is the deepest and most dramatic they get in their exploration of Bond's character outside of the Ying-Yang relationship he has with Scaramanga in MWTGG.

Edited by RMc, 22 November 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[RMc2]

I can't say that I really see any pattern here. Like SecretAgentFan said, if this were a case of one actor's tenure following a similar arc to Craig's, then there would be a pattern, but it doesn't work if it's just films cherry-picked from the franchise's 50-year history. I could probably go back and do something similar for each of the Bonds.

The only pattern that really holds throughout the series, from Connery to Craig, is that the films are beholden to a checklist and a formula.

Oh I'm definitely not saying it's deliberate - I'm just observing an interesting coincidence.

I think Craig's tenure most closely resembles Connery's 60s era - five films, with an evil organisation behind the plots of four of them (assuming 24 and 25 deal with Quantum, as rumoured) and no. 3 as a stand-alone entry and arguably the best film in the series. I even think Craig resembles Connery more than anyone else. Also, I'm pretty sure Craig's films have made references to the Connery films more than any of the other actors.

[hilly]

I guess Skyfall resembles Goldfinger and Tswlm in as much as it has that same stylish swagger. It certainly oozes confidence and Craig seems happy and relaxed. Maybe it take a couple of films to achieve this.... If only Dalton had done a 3rd.. I must re-watch Twine to see if Brosnan has it too

[Turn]

TSWLM tried to explore Bond's psyche?

Actually, yeah it does: remember Bond's answer when Amasova asks him if he killed her lover? And his reaction to the mention of his wife? And the way he ruthlessly kills Sandor and Stromberg? The emphasis is definitely on 'tried', but of the Moore films, this is the deepest and most dramatic they get in their exploration of Bond's character outside of the Ying-Yang relationship he has with Scaramanga in MWTGG.

Those are small, yet effective scenes, but get mostly sidetracked due to the emphasis on the epic flourishes. The Anya confrontation scene is followed by them being lowered to the sub from the aircraft and Moore flashing a cheesy smile at her.

FYEO is a much more effective example of what comes closest to looking into Moore Bond's psyche, with the most famous and celebrated example being his kicking Locque's car off the cliff. He did this in front of others rather than dispatch the villains alone in TSWLM. That sort of says something. He is also more subdued toward Melina and Bibi and not so much the jump into bed with anything type he played before. He just seems a bit more wary and less twinkle in his eyes than other films.

[seawolfnyy]

I also really don't see the pattern here. I think it's more of spurious correlations than anything. As for the next one, I think it'll probably be more Thunderball than From Russia With Love.

[coco1997]

FYEO is a much more effective example of what comes closest to looking into Moore Bond's psyche, with the most famous and celebrated example being his kicking Locque's car off the cliff. He did this in front of others rather than dispatch the villains alone in TSWLM. That sort of says something. He is also more subdued toward Melina and Bibi and not so much the jump into bed with anything type he played before. He just seems a bit more wary and less twinkle in his eyes than other films.

Took the words right out of my mouth, Turn. Not to mention the opening scene with Bond and Tracy's grave.

[Hockey Mask]

I don't see it but with a library of 23 films now I'm sure you can find a film that matches up with another pretty easily.

[AMC Hornet]

I also really don't see the pattern here. I think it's more of spurious correlations than anything. As for the next one, I think it'll probably be more Thunderball than From Russia With Love.

"I certainly hope so too."

[RMc2]

He was in a jolly good mindset those days.

Haha!

Maybe we will get Thunderball; I wouldn't mind, because Thunderball is great, it just has HUGE plot holes, which I'm sure is something that can be remedied if John Logan is given enough time. Craig could do with a female villain to face off against, either Fiona Volpe type or perhaps more in line with TWINE's Elektra King.

If they do follow the Blofeld-style villain route, it'd be nice to see the character as a woman - Helen Mirren, anyone?

[glidrose]

3) SkyFall (2012)
This Bond's third and funniest entry. Often brilliant, it is notable for attempting to explore Bond's psyche. Boasts a strong villain who is memorable but arguably underused. Also boasts this Bond's first gadget car.

The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
This Bond's third and funniest entry. Often brilliant, it is notable for attempting to explore Bond's psyche. Boasts a strong villain who is memorable but arguably underused. Also boasts this Bond's first gadget car.
 

 

Funny you compared SF to TSWLM. In an early draft of TSWLM, the action was to take place in Scotland. Something about Hugo Drax using Loch Ness (and its monster).

Edited by glidrose, 15 December 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[00 Brosnan]

I have to agree with a couple of other members here in that I don't see much of a pattern here. I know Connery, Moore, and I suppose now Craig had their best outings during their third run, but that might just be coincidence. SkyFall is fantastic, but I'd like to think Craig could deliver more on at least the same level. I thought Brosnan's best interpretation of Bond came in TND as he was playboy-ish, cool, tough, and at times humorous.

 

Personally, I don't believe in the whole "third outing" .....thing? Goldfinger is my least-liked Connery film outside of DAF and while TSWLM is pretty good, I prefer LALD and FYEO over it.

[glidrose]

I have to agree with a couple of other members here in that I don't see much of a pattern here. I know Connery, Moore, and I suppose now Craig had their best outings during their third run, but that might just be coincidence. SkyFall is fantastic, but I'd like to think Craig could deliver more on at least the same level. I thought Brosnan's best interpretation of Bond came in TND as he was playboy-ish, cool, tough, and at times humorous.

 

Personally, I don't believe in the whole "third outing" .....thing? Goldfinger is my least-liked Connery film outside of DAF and while TSWLM is pretty good, I prefer LALD and FYEO over it.

 

I've also never believed the "third film" theory since around '77. TSWLM has always been for me one of the series' most overrated.

 

Connery's best: #3, followed close by #4

Moore's best: #4, followed by #6

Brosnan's best: #2, followed by #4

Craig's best: #1 with no competition in sight though #3 is better than #2

 

...with all those #4s on my list looks like Craig's next should please me.

[ChristopherZ22]

TSWLM tried to explore Bond's psyche?

I think the topic starter meant it tried to explore Bond's psyche with the subplot about him killing Anya's lover, and how as an agent, he has to face the fact that he is a killer.

[Sir Godfrey]

There are so many Bond movies, we can always compare them. Sometimes it's a coincidence but most often not.
I could make a long list of Bond movies which have commons with Skyfall but "The Spy who loved me" is proably the last...

[AMC Hornet]

There are so many Bond movies, we can always compare them. Sometimes it's a coincidence but most often not.
I could make a long list of Bond movies which have commons with Skyfall but "The Spy who loved me" is proably the last...

Well, they both have an S_y word in their titles...

[jaguar007]

I think a comparison between Skyfall and Brosnan's 3rd film TWINE would have been more in check than TSWLM.

[Sir Godfrey]

I think a comparison between Skyfall and Brosnan's 3rd film TWINE would have been more in check than TSWLM.

 

Yes I agree. Skyfall have a lot of commons with GoldenEye, too.

[Guy Haines]

Daniel Craig hasn't yet done a "Bond working against the clock" film along the lines of Thunderball. My guess is that Bond 24 will head in that direction. But with John Logan doing the script and an upper bracket cast and director - doing Bond is no longer regarded as "slumming it", a term from the acting profession, I think.

 

As for Bond 24 being a Connery film or a Brosnan film, no, it will be a Craig film. He's stamped his own style on Bond, without a doubt.

[Professor Pi]

I think a comparison between Skyfall and Brosnan's 3rd film TWINE would have been more in check than TSWLM.

 

Yes I agree. Skyfall have a lot of commons with GoldenEye, too.

 

Yes, thank you!  Former MI6 agent gone bad, MI6 attacked and has to relocate, injury from longest pre-title sequence of Bond actor's career carrying through storyline, Scotland locale, M's past decisions coming back to haunt her and causing Bond to be sent on a mission, destruction of gadget laden car, chair tortures, cyber terrorism threatening London's infrastructure.  If anything, Skyfall is Craig's Brosnan film.  Besides, it's QoS that has all the references to TSWLM, even though QoS is Craig's Licence to Kill.

 

But I like this idea that each of Craig's movies might be an homage to a previous Bond actor (much like John Glen's directorial efforts mimic those of his predecessors.)  So if that is the case, the next one should be the big Moore-like Bond production spectacle with Bond battling a resurgent Quantum.  Then Bond 25 could be a Connery-esque faithful YOLT adaptation--SHATTERHAND!

[RMc2]

It looks like you fellas were right - SPECTRE is Craig's Thunderball!

 

 

Fingers crossed for Craig making Bond 25. If he does, the pattern would mean it's a Moore Bond or a Brosnan Bond... so it depends on what we think SF is!

[dtuba]

It's funny, although I hate to admit it, it seems like the Craig era has somewhat mirrored the Brosnan era in many ways, although that means that Craig is done after 4 films

Consider the parallels:

 

CR and GE

Both directed by Martin Campbell, both introduce a new actor as Bond, both films have themes of how does Bond fit into this new era? (GE post cold War, CR post 9/11)

 

QOS and TND

Both are shorter and tighter films than the previous film, long on action but short on narrative depth and plot. Both films did well but fail to match the BO success of the previous one. Both directed by a "name" director (although Spottiswoode had experience directing action and suspense films).

 

TWINE and SF

Both films attempt to inject some genuine human drama into the Bond saga (although I think SF achieves this much better) and to tone down the frenetic action from the previous. Both films feature M as a key player in the plot, although Electra King has more than just revenge as a motivation.

 

DAD and SP

(I hate to do it, but...) Both films are sillier and more OTT than the previous, and both films feature loads of callbacks and Easter eggs to previous films in the series. Both feature a fairly relaxed performance by the lead actor. (By making this comparison I am hoping that SP proves to be the most ridiculous of all the Craig films, and not that I hope he is replaced after this one). Confession: Although I am an avowed DAD-hater, I found the car chase on the ice to be more compelling than the nighttime Rome chase.

 

Just my $00.02.

[Professor Pi]

QOS and TND

Both are shorter and tighter films than the previous film, long on action but short on narrative depth and plot. Both films did well but fail to match the BO success of the previous one. Both directed by a "name" director (although Spottiswoode had experience directing action and suspense films).

 

Both were rushed and began shooting without a finished script.

[S K Y F A L L]

I always though they were following Connery's Era a little loosely

 

DN     /CR     1st for the actors, tropical settings, card playing, Felix Lieter,

FRWL/QOS   Spectre/Quantum, 

GF      /SF     Standalone film..., 

TB      /SP     Spectre/Quantum, Blofeld kinda