30 replies to this topic

[harrypotter]

Spoilers for these two movies, albeit very weak ones, ahead.

After watching Skyfall, I found myself entertaining some strange thoughts. Namely, the numerous comparisons that it invites between itself and The World is Not Enough. A sampling:

• Both were the third outings of a Bond actor.
• Both were directed by critically acclaimed British directors (Michael Apted for TWINE, Sam Mendes for Skyfall).
• Important portions of both movies take place in the cities of Istanbul and London, as well as Scotland. Both movies also feature brief but important scenes in a casino where Bond is introduced (or, in TWINE's case, re-introduced) to a key character (Valentin Zukovsky in TWINE, Severine in Skyfall).
• The pre-credits sequences of both movies feature Bond fighting an assassin working for the primary villain (the Cigar Girl in TWINE, Patrice in Skyfall) and end with Bond falling from some height and injuring himself.
• MI6 relocates to a location other than Vauxhall Cross in both movies (that Scottish castle in TWINE, the underground bunker in Skyfall).
• The primary villains of both movies (Elektra King in TWINE, Raoul Silva in Skyfall) are motivated, at least partially, by a desire to get revenge against Judi Dench's M for a personal "betrayal" that M committed against them.
• Both movies feature two primary Bond girls: a glamorous damsel-in-distress with an enigmatic personality (Elektra King and Severine) and an intelligent ally of Bond's who survives the events of the movie (Christmas Jones and Eve Moneypenny).

Am I the only one thinking all this?

Also I am very, very new to CBn. So feel free to point out any gaping holes in my logic or where this thread should be placed in the forums and the like.

[Walecs]

Yeah, even when the second Skyfall trailer someone accused it to be a TWINE rehash (though in my opinion it isn't). Anyway, nice thread.

[stamper]

Michael Apted is not critically aclaimed. He sucks.

[dogmanstar]

No, you're right on there harrypotter. I saw Skyfall last night and had the feeling of deja vu during parts--your post really helped me nail down some of the similarities! Thanks, great post.

[JohnnyWalker]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

Agreed, though TWINE isn't terrible as a whole.

[harrypotter]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

Agreed, though TWINE isn't terrible as a whole.

I feel as though TWINE had the potential to be a really fantastic Bond movie, but various things held it back. My main problems with TWINE lie with the ridiculous casting choice of Denise Richards and how weak and helpless M was made to look in the movie. Skyfall has neither of these problems, as Bond is paired with two very able Bond girls and M (although coming under attack throughout much of the film) ultimately proves her strength.

[Hockey Mask]

Michael Apted is not critically aclaimed. He sucks.

The Up series are the best films I have ever seen in the cinema.

[The Shark]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

Agreed, though TWINE isn't terrible as a whole.

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

[harrypotter]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

Agreed, though TWINE isn't terrible as a whole.

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

Care to elaborate?

[The Shark]

If Skyfall has anything to do with TWINE, it's TWINE done right.

Agreed, though TWINE isn't terrible as a whole.

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

Care to elaborate?

It's an awkward mix of insomnia-curing action and soap opera melodrama. An unintentional comedy. KNOCK OFF meets THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

Fair enough, but in my opinion that dishonour belongs to DAD. TWINE had many good ideas but unfocused script and certain casting etc. decisions disable its potential.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 November 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[harrypotter]

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

Fair enough, but in my opinion that dishonour belongs to DAD.

Agreed. The bearded Brosnan reminds me uncomfortably of Tom Hanks in Cast Away, and the plot device of plastic surgery so powerful a person can convincingly change races is very hard to buy. The only redeeming feature of DAD is its title sequence, and even there I have to watch it on mute so I don't have to hear Madonna.

[A Kristatos]

Spoilers for these two movies, albeit very weak ones, ahead.

After watching Skyfall, I found myself entertaining some strange thoughts. Namely, the numerous comparisons that it invites between itself and The World is Not Enough. A sampling:

• Both were the third outings of a Bond actor.
• Both were directed by critically acclaimed British directors (Michael Apted for TWINE, Sam Mendes for Skyfall).
• Important portions of both movies take place in the cities of Istanbul and London, as well as Scotland. Both movies also feature brief but important scenes in a casino where Bond is introduced (or, in TWINE's case, re-introduced) to a key character (Valentin Zukovsky in TWINE, Severine in Skyfall).
• The pre-credits sequences of both movies feature Bond fighting an assassin working for the primary villain (the Cigar Girl in TWINE, Patrice in Skyfall) and end with Bond falling from some height and injuring himself.
• MI6 relocates to a location other than Vauxhall Cross in both movies (that Scottish castle in TWINE, the underground bunker in Skyfall).
• The primary villains of both movies (Elektra King in TWINE, Raoul Silva in Skyfall) are motivated, at least partially, by a desire to get revenge against Judi Dench's M for a personal "betrayal" that M committed against them.
• Both movies feature two primary Bond girls: a glamorous damsel-in-distress with an enigmatic personality (Elektra King and Severine) and an intelligent ally of Bond's who survives the events of the movie (Christmas Jones and Eve Moneypenny).

Am I the only one thinking all this?

Also I am very, very new to CBn. So feel free to point out any gaping holes in my logic or where this thread should be placed in the forums and the like.

Welcome to the boards harry! Excellent post. I don't see any holes in your logic at all, but you did miss one big comparison:

Both films feature part of MI6 headquarters getting bombed.

Otherwise great post and you mentioned a few great points that I didn't think of.

Edited by A Kristatos, 11 November 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[harrypotter]

Spoilers for these two movies, albeit very weak ones, ahead.

After watching Skyfall, I found myself entertaining some strange thoughts. Namely, the numerous comparisons that it invites between itself and The World is Not Enough. A sampling:

• Both were the third outings of a Bond actor.
• Both were directed by critically acclaimed British directors (Michael Apted for TWINE, Sam Mendes for Skyfall).
• Important portions of both movies take place in the cities of Istanbul and London, as well as Scotland. Both movies also feature brief but important scenes in a casino where Bond is introduced (or, in TWINE's case, re-introduced) to a key character (Valentin Zukovsky in TWINE, Severine in Skyfall).
• The pre-credits sequences of both movies feature Bond fighting an assassin working for the primary villain (the Cigar Girl in TWINE, Patrice in Skyfall) and end with Bond falling from some height and injuring himself.
• MI6 relocates to a location other than Vauxhall Cross in both movies (that Scottish castle in TWINE, the underground bunker in Skyfall).
• The primary villains of both movies (Elektra King in TWINE, Raoul Silva in Skyfall) are motivated, at least partially, by a desire to get revenge against Judi Dench's M for a personal "betrayal" that M committed against them.
• Both movies feature two primary Bond girls: a glamorous damsel-in-distress with an enigmatic personality (Elektra King and Severine) and an intelligent ally of Bond's who survives the events of the movie (Christmas Jones and Eve Moneypenny).

Am I the only one thinking all this?

Also I am very, very new to CBn. So feel free to point out any gaping holes in my logic or where this thread should be placed in the forums and the like.

Welcome to the boards harry! Excellent post. I don't see any holes in your logic at all, but you did miss one big comparison:

Both films feature part of MI6 headquarters getting bombed.

Otherwise great post and you mentioned a few great points that I didn't think of.

When was MI6 HQ bombed in TWINE? That scene doesn't spring to mind...

[A Kristatos]

Spoilers for these two movies, albeit very weak ones, ahead.

After watching Skyfall, I found myself entertaining some strange thoughts. Namely, the numerous comparisons that it invites between itself and The World is Not Enough. A sampling:

• Both were the third outings of a Bond actor.
• Both were directed by critically acclaimed British directors (Michael Apted for TWINE, Sam Mendes for Skyfall).
• Important portions of both movies take place in the cities of Istanbul and London, as well as Scotland. Both movies also feature brief but important scenes in a casino where Bond is introduced (or, in TWINE's case, re-introduced) to a key character (Valentin Zukovsky in TWINE, Severine in Skyfall).
• The pre-credits sequences of both movies feature Bond fighting an assassin working for the primary villain (the Cigar Girl in TWINE, Patrice in Skyfall) and end with Bond falling from some height and injuring himself.
• MI6 relocates to a location other than Vauxhall Cross in both movies (that Scottish castle in TWINE, the underground bunker in Skyfall).
• The primary villains of both movies (Elektra King in TWINE, Raoul Silva in Skyfall) are motivated, at least partially, by a desire to get revenge against Judi Dench's M for a personal "betrayal" that M committed against them.
• Both movies feature two primary Bond girls: a glamorous damsel-in-distress with an enigmatic personality (Elektra King and Severine) and an intelligent ally of Bond's who survives the events of the movie (Christmas Jones and Eve Moneypenny).

Am I the only one thinking all this?

Also I am very, very new to CBn. So feel free to point out any gaping holes in my logic or where this thread should be placed in the forums and the like.

Welcome to the boards harry! Excellent post. I don't see any holes in your logic at all, but you did miss one big comparison:

Both films feature part of MI6 headquarters getting bombed.

Otherwise great post and you mentioned a few great points that I didn't think of.

When was MI6 HQ bombed in TWINE? That scene doesn't spring to mind...

When 'Sir' Robert King's money briefcase bomb was triggered by his lapel pin in the PTS. That's when Bond steals Q's retirement speedboat and goes after "Cigar" girl on the Thames.

[harrypotter]

Spoilers for these two movies, albeit very weak ones, ahead.

After watching Skyfall, I found myself entertaining some strange thoughts. Namely, the numerous comparisons that it invites between itself and The World is Not Enough. A sampling:

• Both were the third outings of a Bond actor.
• Both were directed by critically acclaimed British directors (Michael Apted for TWINE, Sam Mendes for Skyfall).
• Important portions of both movies take place in the cities of Istanbul and London, as well as Scotland. Both movies also feature brief but important scenes in a casino where Bond is introduced (or, in TWINE's case, re-introduced) to a key character (Valentin Zukovsky in TWINE, Severine in Skyfall).
• The pre-credits sequences of both movies feature Bond fighting an assassin working for the primary villain (the Cigar Girl in TWINE, Patrice in Skyfall) and end with Bond falling from some height and injuring himself.
• MI6 relocates to a location other than Vauxhall Cross in both movies (that Scottish castle in TWINE, the underground bunker in Skyfall).
• The primary villains of both movies (Elektra King in TWINE, Raoul Silva in Skyfall) are motivated, at least partially, by a desire to get revenge against Judi Dench's M for a personal "betrayal" that M committed against them.
• Both movies feature two primary Bond girls: a glamorous damsel-in-distress with an enigmatic personality (Elektra King and Severine) and an intelligent ally of Bond's who survives the events of the movie (Christmas Jones and Eve Moneypenny).

Am I the only one thinking all this?

Also I am very, very new to CBn. So feel free to point out any gaping holes in my logic or where this thread should be placed in the forums and the like.

Welcome to the boards harry! Excellent post. I don't see any holes in your logic at all, but you did miss one big comparison:

Both films feature part of MI6 headquarters getting bombed.

Otherwise great post and you mentioned a few great points that I didn't think of.

When was MI6 HQ bombed in TWINE? That scene doesn't spring to mind...

When 'Sir' Robert King's money briefcase bomb was triggered by his lapel pin in the PTS. That's when Bond steals Q's retirement speedboat and goes after "Cigar" girl on the Thames.

Right. I thought you were referring to a bomb being launched directly at Vauxhall Cross, which is why I was confused. Thanks for clearing that up.

Skyfall and TWINE do certainly love their explosions.

[The Shark]

I disagree. It's probably the worst Bond of all.

Fair enough, but in my opinion that dishonour belongs to DAD. TWINE had many good ideas but unfocused script and certain casting etc. decisions disable its potential.

I find DAD to be enjoyably ludicrous and colourful. It's cinematic Bond taken to the nth degree, whereas TWINE is dreary and bland.

[JimmyBond]

Dreary yes, bland, not so sure. I just watched it again and found it highly enjoyable. I think it has Brosnan's best performance out of all his films.

[The Shark]

It's Brosnan at his hammiest, that's for sure. The "Stockholm Syndrome" scene is so bad it's almost good.

[JimmyBond]

The only issue I have with that scene is that it doesn't make much sense for Bond to show his hand already. If he knows she's in cahoots with Renard, why tell her? Granted she tries to have him killed in the next scene, but Bond doesn't know she's going to expose herself as a villain so soon.

[Publius]

They also both introduce a new Q, although in the case of TWINE the old Q is still around, but it's fairly clear they're setting it up for "R" to take over.

Branching off from that point, both movies also send off a key actor into the sunset.

[SirBeal]

Both films had Bond not cleared for duty (shoulder injury in TWINE & presumed dead in SKYFALL) In both cases; his physical/ psychological profile was forged (by a Dr. Molly in TWINE and M in SKYFALL) so Bond could “get on with his job”. The villains in each respected movie had knowledge of Bond’s weakness and exploited it.

[Loomis]

I find DAD to be enjoyably ludicrous and colourful. It's cinematic Bond taken to the nth degree, whereas TWINE is dreary and bland.

Quoted for truth.

[plankattack]

The Up series are the best films I have ever seen in the cinema.

Yes, I thought both the Boy Scout and the talking dogs were hilarious.

Ta dum!

There are a lot of similarities between the films and I can't believe that P&W weren't at some level conscious of having a "do-over" when they were putting their first draft of SF together. To me what's more notable isn't that some ideas are reheated (the series has been doing that for years, or taking ideas that were originally intended for one film and then using them in another), but that EON finally decided to follow through on those ideas.

As much as I like TWINE (like you all haven't heard me say that before), it does have a truckload of problems. One of them is the notion is that it's a Bond film so certain things have to happen, especially the action beats. So the formula trumps any other themes you're trying to follow. By SF the series has broken away from those restrictions, so the director can commit to whatever story he wants to tell without being reined in by conventions - ooh we need to get our Q scene, oooh, we haven't had a big set-piece yet. Oooh, we can't kill her off, he needs to make out with her before the closing credits. (whacking Christmas Jones in the same way Severine got it might have got Denise Richards off the hook for all the blame she gets!!!!!)

Conceptually TWINE could have been a fascinating character study, but a "James Bond film" kept getting in the way.

[double o ego]

The Up series are the best films I have ever seen in the cinema.

Yes, I thought both the Boy Scout and the talking dogs were hilarious.

Ta dum!

There are a lot of similarities between the films and I can't believe that P&W weren't at some level conscious of having a "do-over" when they were putting their first draft of SF together. To me what's more notable isn't that some ideas are reheated (the series has been doing that for years, or taking ideas that were originally intended for one film and then using them in another), but that EON finally decided to follow through on those ideas.

As much as I like TWINE (like you all haven't heard me say that before), it does have a truckload of problems. One of them is the notion is that it's a Bond film so certain things have to happen, especially the action beats. So the formula trumps any other themes you're trying to follow. By SF the series has broken away from those restrictions, so the director can commit to whatever story he wants to tell without being reined in by conventions - ooh we need to get our Q scene, oooh, we haven't had a big set-piece yet. Oooh, we can't kill her off, he needs to make out with her before the closing credits. (whacking Christmas Jones in the same way Severine got it might have got Denise Richards off the hook for all the blame she gets!!!!!)

Conceptually TWINE could have been a fascinating character study, but a "James Bond film" kept getting in the way.

Bingo!

And that right there is exactly why SF is an amazing film and is doing so well. Also, it's the reason why so many people say that SF doesn't feel like a Bond movie and I hope to God that the forthcoming movies continue to not let, a "James Bond film" get in the way of giving us top notch, serious films.

[Quintin Sayers]

Yes, I see the links, now that you mention them here.

TWINE was Brosnan Bond at its meatiest - drama, tension, plot, characters - but Skyfall is a much better film, of course. No use of X-Ray specs is a good choice in my view.

[DaveBond21]

Both films had Bond not cleared for duty (shoulder injury in TWINE & presumed dead in SKYFALL) In both cases; his physical/ psychological profile was forged (by a Dr. Molly in TWINE and M in SKYFALL) so Bond could “get on with his job”. The villains in each respected movie had knowledge of Bond’s weakness and exploited it.

Agreed, there are many similarities

[Iceskater101]

There are many similarities that I hadn't really considered. I feel like Skyfall pulls of the revenge M much better obviously, I mean Electra King and stockholm syndrome is a little bit harder to believe while I feel like Silva actually has a reason to have that much hatred towards M. I mean Electra doesn't really even though she was manipulated by Renard.

[DaveBond21]

I bet Sam Mendes likes TWINE.



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